How close is this?

[ikebonamin 0]

This happend to me last week,
in order to avoid a low pull we both didn't track... this is the first time something like this happend to us, and hopefully the last.

be safe.

[Yossarian 0]

2 things....

74 jumps and you're wearing a camera

id rather go slightly low than open that close, both of you look like you have the beginnings of an off-heading opening, if that had happened to me id have been slightly preturbed...

[ikebonamin 0]

I Agree!!!
But, I'm not the camera guy! ;)
ike

[DougH 270]

So how low were you?

Did you not plan a break off, or did you both lose altitude awareness and sail through the break off?

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[ikebonamin 0]

I dont remember exactly... I think I dumped at 2.300 ft.
But to be honest, what happend was a total mistake. My normal dep. is at 3.5 k at the lowest...
I'll use more caution from now on. I'm not proud of this at all.

[dharma1976 0]

well you got something over your head..

on some big way stuff that I have done to avoid the madness I have dumped really fucking low...

and there were some stupid things that I have done like launching 5 ways from 4 grand and dumping turning and flaring...

most importantly...you are both alright just try not to do it again

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[kkeenan 14]

In my opinion, that was way too close. Unless you were much lower, you should have devoted a couple of seconds to tracking. 2,300 ft is fairly low, but not low enough to justify that kind of proximity.

At your jump numbers, you should jump with someone who can help to monitor altitude and separation.

It's a big sky, but if all the factors line up just right, this exact situation could have killed both of you. Kind of like hitting all of the Lottery numbers - only bad.

Kevin K.

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[DougH 270]

Quote

I dont remember exactly... I think I dumped at 2.300 ft.
But to be honest, what happend was a total mistake. My normal dep. is at 3.5 k at the lowest...
I'll use more caution from now on. I'm not proud of this at all.

You don't remember what, if you had planned a break off, if you had just sailed right on past that alt, or maybe you just forgot everything.

I am just teasing, but don't forget to plan the dive and dive the plan.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[peregrinerose 0]

Quote

I'll use more caution from now on. I'm not proud of this at all.

This is the most important part of what you wrote. Learn from it, but also talk with the other jumper. Find out why they lost altitude awareness too. How many jumps do they have? Are they taking the situation seriously as well?

Take canopy collisions very very seriously. I saw one recently... it's absolutely astounding just how fast things got ugly.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[jacketsdb23 49]

I hope the one person that voted not close was joking.

Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.

[Yossarian 0]

didnt realise you werent the one with the camera, sorry for assuming that, but were neither of you wearing an audible? sorry, obviously im in no position to lecture with very similar jump numbers to you but im wondering how this could have got so low without a breakoff. i look at my alti obsessively from exit, my rationale being that if im always looking i always know where i am.

[tbrown 26]

Nice.....did you ask for any Gray Poupon ?

Depending on just how low you were, or might have been, you guys were lucky not to fire one or both of your AADs. Three or four canopies out would've been thrilling, especially if you followed up with an entanglement. These Forums would never get over talking about you.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[tbrown 26]

Quote

I dont remember exactly... I think I dumped at 2.300 ft.
But to be honest, what happend was a total mistake. My normal dep. is at 3.5 k at the lowest...
I'll use more caution from now on. I'm not proud of this at all.

Well, thanks for your honesty and for sharing this. We all fuck up at one time or another, what matters is that we learn from it and not do it again. Actually, that's quite a shot there. It's just really chilling after what happened in Texas last month. I wonder if they looked like that while they were opening ?

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[ikebonamin 0]

I would like to thank you all. This is a situation that could have been avoided, but sometimes, somehow, people screw thing's up! I've learned my lesson, sharing this with you has been great. I already said that I'm not proud of it, neither can't see the real danger of it. Still, it is really nice to know that some really good skydivers sometimes screw thing's up, learn and most important, live... Maybe this makes me fell a little better! Sorry for the terrible English!
Be safe!
ike
:)

[BIGUN 1,317]

You lived.
You learned.
But more importantly - you shared your learning here and hopefully you'll share the importance with those who come after you about separation.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

I've been closer, but that's pretty friggin' close.

So, what do YOU think you did wrong that you got yourself into that corner?

Here's a "hint" from your orig post.

Quote

... this is the first time something like this happend to us, and hopefully the last.

[skr 1]

> in order to avoid a low pull we both didn't track

Well, sometimes you find yourself in a situation
with no good answers.

Pulling too close is probably a better mistake than
pulling too low. The bottom part of a jump happens
so fast, and altitude slips away before you realize it.


But the question now is how do you teach yourself
to keep track of your altitude?

It's not a skill we're born with, we have to learn
it, and practice it.

I've put a lot of effort into developing a feel for
when it is getting to be too long since the last
time I checked my altitude.


Up high I'm pretty relaxed and might only check
once or twice, but somewhere around 6,000 or
7,000 ft I start checking more often.


One exercise we used to do was at 5,500 ft we
would stop whatever we had been doing, we would
flash our hands five-five at each other, and just
hold still and look at each other, and then break.

It was just an exercise to teach our brains to have
a sense of where 5,500 ft happens in a jump.


Anyway, now that you know about it you can
put some effort into teaching yourself this skill,
and you can pass it on to your students.

Skr

[OSOK 0]

To me that's I-would've-crapped-my-pants-close.


Now, this is something I have to mention:

Quote

In my opinion, that was way too close. Unless you were much lower, you should have devoted a couple of seconds to tracking. 2,300 ft is fairly low, but not low enough to justify that kind of proximity.

Kevin K.

Reading that kinda disturbs me. I mean, The guy has less than 100 jumps, and so do I. I 'really' don't consider good advice when someone tells me its better to get below 2.3k than to open w/o tracking. I mean, seriosuly, 2.3 is most likely under the guys hard deck, and now you're telling him it's ok to open lower than that, rather than track? All the above is just me... sorry.

[BillyVance 34]

I came just about as close or closer than that. Quincy, WFFC 1997, raft dive with the Alabama Gang out of a Casa. I was diving out after the raft with a few others. Did my best to stay up but the raft was a real floater so after a while I gave up looking at it get higher and higher. It was close to pull time. What I forgot to do was locate the others who went low without my knowing it. I did scan the area below me and grabbed my pilot chute hackey and I had just pulled it out of the pouch when I noticed an opening canopy almost directly below me about 500 feet. He was fully open by the time I zoomed past in front of him, probably 10 feet away, and then I let go of the pilot chute. Boy he was steaming mad, but he put himself down there to begin with and didn't even track away, so we both were to blame anyway.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[JohnMitchell 16]

Ahh, always good to hear from you, Skratch. Thanks for the words of wisdom. I couldn't have said it better.

[aguila 0]

Being objective and based on the picture, it depends on the focal length and film size (or video equivalent)

From another point of view both jumpers' experience might also be considered.

Gonzalo

It cannot be done really means I do not know how to do it ... yet

[Erroll 80]

Quote

To me that's I-would've-crapped-my-pants-close.


Now, this is something I have to mention:

Quote

In my opinion, that was way too close. Unless you were much lower, you should have devoted a couple of seconds to tracking. 2,300 ft is fairly low, but not low enough to justify that kind of proximity.

Kevin K.

Reading that kinda disturbs me.... ...and now you're telling him it's ok to open lower than that, rather than track?

Read his post again.

[kkeenan 14]

Quote

Reading that kinda disturbs me.

First off, getting oneself into this situation requires a lot of inattention. What I'm saying is if you find yourself at 2.3k and a couple of feet away from someone, try to get at least a little seperation before pulling. Opening at 2k probably won't kill you, whereas eating a canopy may. I'm not advocating lowtimers dumping low, but as an emergency measure, it may be necessary to avoid the greater danger of a canopy collision.

If you're concerned about your pull altitude, don't be next to someone when you pass through it.

Kevin

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[Feeblemind 1]

I am curious to the number of jumps the jumper with the camera had? What type of jump was planned? Was the jump going as planned?What is the step down on the camera lens (.5, .45 or .3)? Etcetera Etcetera.

It is obvious you made a mistake and have admitted so. Altitude is your friend, I am pretty sure you instructor (s) made altitude awarness a priority (I know mine did), Plan the dive and dive the plan.

Fire Safety Tip: Don't fry bacon while naked

[brianfry713 0]

Most groups of RW experienced jumpers break off at least by 4,000 feet and FF by 4,500 feet at a minimum. By 3,000 feet, there should be enough separation to pull and not hit each other under canopy. That is if everything goes according to plan, as it should, and of course you have a plan.

Sometimes things don't go as planned. If you lose altitude awareness and find yourself around 2,000 feet with someone directly above you, it could kill both of you if you pulled at that moment. If you are facing someone and are close together, if you both pull at the same time you could have a canopy collision and the results could be fatal. If you do a normal breakoff and then pull too low, you could also die.

One other situation that comes to mind is what do you do if you're at your pull altitude and you see a canopy deploying directly beneath you? Usually the best choice then is to track and pull when you are assured that you won't hit them.

It is a decision you need to make quickly and it depends on how close people are, how much of a collision risk they are, how much altitude you have, what's the LZ like underneath you, what gear you are jumping, your current freefall speed, experience levels, and other factors. If you still have time to turn 180, track for a few seconds, deploy your main, execute EPs if necessary, and avoid an AAD fire, then that could be the best option for avoiding other jumpers and the ground. There may be a situation where you have to go lower and go straight to your reserve.

All of these scary situations are avoidable if you maintain altitude awareness, plan the jump, and stick to the plan that assures adequate separation before your pull altitude.