Considering the consequence of a dropped toggle during a swoop

[DBCOOPER 5]

I was thinking if a safety back system could be invented that make the losing a toggle not be fatal event. Something like a custom brake line that had an extra line that would come down and connect to the back of a glove or something. Something that would be hooked up after opening and during housekeeping of the slider.Thoughts?

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[councilman24 37]

First thought.

What happens when you have to cutaway after a collision?

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[DBCOOPER 5]

I was thinking more of dedicated high performance landing jumps.
Or maybe it gets hooked up lower or maybe just a choice you make.

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[Doug_Davis 0]

DBCOOPER

I was thinking if a safety back system could be invented that make the losing a toggle not be fatal event. Something like a custom brake line that had an extra line that would come down and connect to the back of a glove or something. Something that would be hooked up after opening and during housekeeping of the slider.Thoughts?

Would a double loop system work?

Place you entire hand through the first loop, so that its on your wrist. And you grab the second loop, as we normally do with your hand.
This way even if your hand accidently lets go of the first loop (dropped toggle) the second loop is still over your wrist?

[piisfish 140]

DBCOOPER

I was thinking more of dedicated high performance landing jumps.
Or maybe it gets hooked up lower or maybe just a choice you make.

how many incidents of dropped toggles on dedicated performance landing jumps ?

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[DBCOOPER 5]

I don't know. To me one is to many especially if it could be prevented with a simple fix.

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[wildcard451 0]

Doug_Davis

***I was thinking if a safety back system could be invented that make the losing a toggle not be fatal event. Something like a custom brake line that had an extra line that would come down and connect to the back of a glove or something. Something that would be hooked up after opening and during housekeeping of the slider.Thoughts?

Would a double loop system work?

Place you entire hand through the first loop, so that its on your wrist. And you grab the second loop, as we normally do with your hand.
This way even if your hand accidently lets go of the first loop (dropped toggle) the second loop is still over your wrist?

I'm not fond of being attached to a main by a loop around my wrist. I learned that lesson on a 25sqft kite that drug me by my face across Xkeys landing area when I had 150 jumps.

If nothing else you can sew your toggles down a little to make them snug. You should not be swooping with toggles that are super loose on your hand.

Always whole hand in the toggle. Two fingers in the dive loops.

[piisfish 140]

DBCOOPER

I don't know. To me one is to many especially if it could be prevented with a simple fix.

simple fix ? Just don't "drop" them.
Dropping a toggle DOES NOT EXIST.
Some jumpers LET the toggle go.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[diablopilot 2]

How about we just teach people not to let go of the toggle(s)?

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[DBCOOPER 5]

Hey,I don't do HP landings so I really don't know what its like to yank on a front riser and be screaming at the planet coming out of a 270. I do have an RSL and an AAD even though I've been taught how and when to not need them. Just thinking outside the box a little...hell we could still be using shot and a halfs and spring loaded pilot chutes if people didn't think about things. And shit happens...and when it does your pretty much dead or you probably wish you were when it happens. Just wondering if there is a way around that.

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[chuckakers 425]

Nueman tackified gloves and anti-slip tape on the inner part of the brake loops. If you need more than that you need a Para-foil.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[SStewart 13]

diablopilot

How about we just teach people not to let go of the toggle(s)?

We do, some people just don't listen because they think they already know everything.

Onward and Upward!

[SoCalJumper 0]

no disrespect intended.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbU4Cb4A4-o

[hokierower 0]

Not having huge toggles that allow your hands to slip out.

[Doug_Davis 0]

wildcard451

Always whole hand in the toggle. Two fingers in the dive loops.

Yep, thats what I was taught. Obviously/unfortunately not everyone does it that way I guess?

[grantunderland 0]

Is there a reason a swooper couldn't put dive loops on their rears? I've seen that most either grab the rears with their whole hand, or press them out to the side. Is there a reason not to treat the rears the same as the fronts in using just 2 fingers?

[chuckakers 425]

grantunderland

Is there a reason a swooper couldn't put dive loops on their rears? I've seen that most either grab the rears with their whole hand, or press them out to the side. Is there a reason not to treat the rears the same as the fronts in using just 2 fingers?

There's no reason a person couldn't use loops on the rears assuming there's enough room to mount them, but I can see a problem with the concept.

When transitioning from front loops to rear risers or toggles, the jumper releases tension on the loop while pulling the fingers out. That works fine because the jumper is also transitioning from diving to not diving.

When transitioning from rear loops to toggles the jumper can't afford the momentary loss of lift that would occur when releasing tension on the loop to get the fingers out. Notice that when a canopy pilot transitions from rears to toggles there is seldom a release of tension. The jumper typically releases the rears and continues downward with the toggles, maintaining much needed lift at the entire time.

I guess you could play with technique on releasing the loops, but I for one wouldn't want to take the risk of having a finger hang up in a loop at that stage of the landing.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[format 1]

DBCOOPER

I was thinking if a safety back system could be invented that make the losing a toggle not be fatal event...

A rubber band, knotted to a bottom of brake loop should be enough. (having elastic extra loop)

I wouldn't be surprised if some people are using it already.
After all, rubber band is a standard part of skidiving gear.

What goes around, comes later.

[Deimian 43]

format

A rubber band, knotted to a bottom of brake loop should be enough. (having elastic extra loop)

I wouldn't be surprised if some people are using it already.
After all, rubber band is a standard part of skidiving gear.

How do you suggest to attach the rubber band to the hand? Passing a finger through it?

Another possibility would be strong magnets in gloves and toggles. That way they wouldn't sleep so easily but they would release anyway in a cutaway. It might create problems with hand mounted altimeters though.

[piisfish 140]

how about 3 passes of supertack through the palm and the toggle ?

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Keithor 0]

piisfish

how about 3 passes of supertack through the palm and the toggle ?

This made me laugh. +1

[Hellis 0]

piisfish

how about 3 passes of supertack through the palm and the toggle ?

This one is the first one I actually think will work.

Not that it's a good idea, but I think it could work.

The other ones have missed the symetrics.
What I mean is that, sure a loop around the hand will catch the toggle, but will the toggles/brakelines be symetric after?
No, the canopy will turn.
If you have an inch of slack between the loop and toggle that means the canopy will turn as if you are holding one toggle one inch further down.

And after a hookturn when the canopy is flying faster, beeing not symetric will be worse.

The magnets idea might also work but I doubt it...

[format 1]

piisfish

how about 3 passes of supertack through the palm and the toggle ?

This superficial understanding really made my day
Thank you surface

What goes around, comes later.

[diablopilot 2]

piisfish

how about 3 passes of supertack through the palm and the toggle ?

Best idea ever. Close and lock the thread. You win the internet. :-)

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

DBCOOPER

I was thinking if a safety back system could be invented that make the losing a toggle not be fatal event. Something like a custom brake line that had an extra line that would come down and connect to the back of a glove or something. Something that would be hooked up after opening and during housekeeping of the slider.Thoughts?

How about your entire hand through the toggle with your bottom two fingers wrapped around the toggle and just using your index and middle fingers in the dive loops?

Works great and makes it much harder to drop a toggle.