Best/worst canopies in turbulence?

[lyosha 50]

Does anyone have any canopy recommendations as to which canopies are more/less resistant in turbulent flight? A search didn't return much...

[Alexg3265 0]

Generally, the faster you're going, the less turbulence will effect you. Most people will tell you your canopy will handle better in full flight in turbulence, rather than in brakes. I'm going out in a limb, but I'd be willing to say that any canopy by a major manufacturer nowadays will handle it very similarly at similar sizing and loadings. I don't think you can really objectively point and say canopies a, b and c are good in turbulence and canopies x,y and z are more prone to collapse.


That being said, if you're questioning the turbulence, stay on the fuck on the ground.

I was that kid jumping out if his tree house with a bed sheet. My dad wouldn't let me use the ladder to try the roof...

[drewcarp 0]

7 cells are know to be better in turbulence. I've heard Triathlons are especially good at handling it.

[kingbunky 3]

Big air sportz canopies (Brian Germain's air locked lotus/samurai/jedei) do quite well in turbulence. Best bet is to stay out of it if you can though

"Hang on a sec, the young'uns are throwin' beer cans at a golf cart."
MB4252 TDS699
killing threads since 2001

[riggerrob 643]

My NOVA 150 is not much fun in turbulence. The nose keeps tucking under.
Hah!
Hah!

[NWFlyer 2]

The one that is sitting packed in my rig on the ground, while I hang out and watch other people land in turbulence.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[HUPRA 0]

NWFlyer

The one that is sitting packed in my rig on the ground, while I hang out and watch other people land in turbulence.

Agreed, I recently had two friends injured on the same jump; one with a broken ankle and one with fractured vertebra.

[phoenixlpr 0]

NWFlyer

The one that is sitting packed in my rig on the ground, while I hang out and watch other people land in turbulence.

Long live for the turtle!

I've heard about lightly loaded Katanas collapsing.

The best thing can be avoid place where you can expect turbulence and keep your lines loaded and don't let your canopy surge forward.

[lyosha 50]

Alexg3265

I don't think you can really objectively...

A lot of knowledge in this sport is subjective. I don't know how you could answer this question objectively. My aim was to see if there's someone here who has had the experience of flying a variety of wings in a DZ prone to turbulence that would be able to share their experiences.

Quote

That being said, if you're questioning the turbulence, stay on the fuck on the ground.

Well, yes, don't fly in poor conditions, but some DZs are near forests and winds do pick up and switch direction while you're climbing to altitude. It's happened to me a couple of times already. I'm not trying to find out how I can cheat air gremlins here, I'm trying to see what decisions made prior to jumping could have positive outcomes should conditions change. If I was jumping in Eloy I wouldn't care as much, but I'm in a place with ample trees...

[stratostar 5]

But not near as good as a round parachute, a round is sound, but a square will get you there.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[FB1609 0]

The best ram air for turbulence would be a Parafiol I'd imagine. Not that anyone would want to jump something so safe and boring though.

[DocPop 1]

stratostar

But not near as good as a round parachute, a round is sound, but a square will get you there.

Or alternatively:

"With a round you go straight down, a square will get you over there"!

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[stratostar 5]

Not always, get fair amount of forward drive on a pc class canopy, add in a little wind from behind and you can cover a good amount of distance, even a T-10 can do it, its all about conditions and proper use of the gear and spotting.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[Andy9o8 2]

riggerrob

My NOVA 150 is not much fun in turbulence. The nose keeps tucking under.
Hah!
Hah!

In Spanish, "no va" means "doesn't go". That's no coincidence.

[Boogers 0]

stratostar

Not always, get fair amount of forward drive on a pc class canopy, add in a little wind from behind and you can cover a good amount of distance, even a T-10 can do it, its all about conditions and proper use of the gear and spotting.

"Spotting"? What's that?

[DocPop 1]

Boogers

"Spotting"? What's that?

Something girls do about the time they get all shouty and unreasonable!

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[BigMark 1]

riggerrob

My NOVA 150 is not much fun in turbulence. The nose keeps tucking under.
Hah!
Hah!

The first self folding parachute.

[Dupah1000 0]

drewcarp

7 cells are know to be better in turbulence. I've heard Triathlons are especially good at handling it.

Agreed, and also the Spectres since both 7 cells have a nice steep penetration angle which helps cut through those pockets a little better. I noticed the difference immediately after getting my new Triathlon a few years back transitioning from a 9 cell.

[skyjumpenfool 2]

kingbunky

Big air sportz canopies (Brian Germain's air locked lotus/samurai/jedei) do quite well in turbulence. Best bet is to stay out of it if you can though

This^^^ Airlocks are great for cutting thru (minor) turbulance. When it gets bad, I'm playing hackey.... a lesson I've learned the hard way.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[hangdiver 1]

Quote

If I was jumping in Eloy I wouldn't care as much, but I'm in a place with ample trees...

you had better rethink your theory about the desert...I worked there for 3 years...I saw many canopies collapse...one myself...a 136 Jonathan.

I jumped a Stiletto 135 and 120...never had a problem with those.

hangdiver

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[Alexg3265 0]

I've watched firsthand a big lightly loaded triathlon fold under half the canopy and spin at 150ft. I've seen a small crossfire with tons of speed collapse 10 ft off the ground. Anything is collapsible. Even sliders I hear.

That being said, my nitro seems to handle very nicely in turbulence. It doesn't breathe that same way other canopies do. Must be the stiffer galvenor (spelling?) fabric. Or the gay little winglets? It's been rock solid. Usually I see squirrelly behavior out of the corners when you pick up speed plane out quick and lose speed. As that canopy surges forward due to lack of forward speed, it's very very sensitive to any crosswind.

Think about it, the canopy is an arc. So if you get a side wind that exceeds a forward relative wind, it'll fold under that edge. (Try to make your canopy fly sideways) It's just physics. Try it up high. Get some speed and flare till you almost stall, let the brakes back I and watch the canopy dive. Until you regain speed and get that wing over your head, any side gust is going to tuck your corners under. I can replicate it with scary precision on a small scale. (5-20sqft canopies) yes I have too much time in my hands.

I was that kid jumping out if his tree house with a bed sheet. My dad wouldn't let me use the ladder to try the roof...

[ljwobker 2]

My experience is that the behavior of canopies in turbulence is primarily driven by the internal pressure of the inflated wing. The more "rigid" the wing, the better the canopy tends to fly "through" turbulence. So if that's the case, we need to look at what things increase the internal pressure of the canopy:
1) higher airspeed. The faster the canopy is flying, the higher the pressure.
2) thinner airfoil. "thinner" wings (which are almost always equivalent to higher performance designs) tend to have higher pressures.
3) cross bracing. I don't think it's accurate to say that cross braces actually increase the internal pressure, but (once fully inflated) they tend to resist deformation due to the multiple chambers being formed inside the wing.
4) airlocks. very similar to cross bracing, but with a different design goal. Airlocks are there to 'trap' air inside the wing and make it more rigid, but without (necessarily) improving the full flight performance (higher airspeed, higher turn rates, etc)

It's no accident that higher performance wings (and thus less forgiving ones) are higher pressure, and fly better through turbulence. That said, the advice here is good: if there is enough turbulence that you aren't comfortable jumping your normal canopy, it's probably best to stay on the ground. ;-)

[drewcarp 0]

Dupah1000

***7 cells are know to be better in turbulence. I've heard Triathlons are especially good at handling it.

Agreed, and also the Spectres since both 7 cells have a nice steep penetration angle which helps cut through those pockets a little better. I noticed the difference immediately after getting my new Triathlon a few years back transitioning from a 9 cell.

Do you think that the trim angle is the biggest factor or the cell count? I know Pulses have a very flat trim angle, would they be more prone to collapse, kind of like a paraglider?

Just guessing but I'd bet that the difference between the most and least stable of modern canopies is very little. All can and will collapse in bad air. A tri might take a 22 knot wind sheer and a pulse only a 21 or something but they both will collapse relatively close to the same point.

Point being don't fly if the air is getting wiley no matter what you're flying.

[mjosparky 4]

lyosha

Does anyone have any canopy recommendations as to which canopies are more/less resistant in turbulent flight? A search didn't return much...

Trim is a big factor. If the canopy is trimmed nose down it moves the centre of lift forward giving a higher descent rate. This causes a higher pressurization which is more stable in turbulence. Moving the centre of lift more to the centre of the chord creates a flatter glide and make it harder to maintain pressurization. But all things are a trade off.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[flymonky 0]

try the Odyssey form skylark if u can get one super stable in turbulence and slow speed flight and its not cross braced and fits different levels of experience.