My reserve closing loop ripped

[dropzonebug 0]

Hi guys,

Last weekend my reserve loop ripped apart as I stooped down while waiting for boarding. It ripped on the point where it was spliced. That's why it was not possible to recognize possible damage on the loop during a pin check.

The container is a Next from Paratec DOM ~2002. The reserve was repacked 8 months ago was not exposed to any
exceptional load in this time. When we had a first look at the grommets they seemed fine but my rigger will
examine them in detail during this week. He packed my reserve and he always uses airtec cypres reserve closing loops.

Is there anyone who had the same problem? What are possible reasons for what happened and how can I make sure,
that this will not happen again? Just repacking the reserve and hoping for the best is no option. I am really worried, because if this would have happened in the sky then it could have been the last jump for me and some fellows.

Blue Skies!

[KellyF 16]

Do you have an AAD? If so, what kind, and where is the cutter located on your Next?

[Deimian 43]

KellyF

Do you have an AAD? If so, what kind, and where is the cutter located on your Next?

The Next has the cutter located on top of the pilot chute, on the left flap, according to the manual.

[dropzonebug 0]

Yes, I have. It's a cypres 2. It is located at the top of the container.
You can see it in the attachment.

[skydivecat 3]

Not to nitpick, but why were you jumping a reserve that hadn't been packed in 8 months? I am honestly curious as I thought 6mos was the mandatory repack cycle.

[dropzonebug 0]

I am from Germany. The repack cycle here is 12 months.

[skydivecat 3]

Ah! I didn't know that it would vary so much outside the US (I haven't traveled and jumped yet). Thank you

[xijonix 0]

The reserve repack cycle in the US is actually 180 days not 6 months. An old rigger of mine would always get on my ass when I mistakenly said 6 months.

[riggerrob 643]

Regulations ... smegulations ... skydivers only repack their reserves in a paniced week before the big boogie.

[airtwardo 7]

dropzonebug

I am from Germany. The repack cycle here is 12 months.

Which begs the question as to whether that reserve loop 'problem' would have been caught during a tighter repack cycle?

I sure wouldn't have enjoyed being behind you & getting a deploying reserve in the face during an exit at altitude!


OTOH ~ Ya sure would get your money's worth of excitement goin' rear float and a second later finding yourself hanging off the tail by 'Plan B'

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Irm1u 0]

skydivecat

Not to nitpick, but why were you jumping a reserve that hadn't been packed in 8 months? I am honestly curious as I thought 6mos was the mandatory repack cycle.

12 months for private equipment in Norway aswell, so guess its normal in several countries.

[Boogers 0]

dropzonebug

my rigger will examine them in detail during this week. He packed my reserve and he always uses airtec cypres reserve closing loops.

Is there anyone who had the same problem? What are possible reasons for what happened and how can I make sure, that this will not happen again? Just repacking the reserve and hoping for the best is no option. I am really worried...

To get back to your original question which no one else has answered yet...

Make sure you spend some time with that rigger getting a full explanation of whatever his findings are. If there was a flaw, have him show it to you. Perhaps the finger-trapped loop wasn't stitched down. Perhaps too much force was put on the loop with a leverage handle. Perhaps there was a sharp edge on a washer that cut into the cord. Whatever it was, you have the right to see it - it's your life on the line. Also have him show you the next loop he will use on your rig, and what's being done different to prevent that same thing from happening again. You need the confidence that the pack job will be correct. And then continue to do a thorough pre-flight check of your rig before each jump.

[gowlerk 2,249]

Boogers

***my rigger will examine them in detail during this week. He packed my reserve and he always uses airtec cypres reserve closing loops.

Is there anyone who had the same problem? What are possible reasons for what happened and how can I make sure, that this will not happen again? Just repacking the reserve and hoping for the best is no option. I am really worried...

To get back to your original question which no one else has answered yet...

Make sure you spend some time with that rigger getting a full explanation of whatever his findings are. If there was a flaw, have him show it to you. Perhaps the finger-trapped loop wasn't stitched down. Perhaps too much force was put on the loop with a leverage handle. Perhaps there was a sharp edge on a washer that cut into the cord. Whatever it was, you have the right to see it - it's your life on the line. Also have him show you the next loop he will use on your rig, and what's being done different to prevent that same thing from happening again. You need the confidence that the pack job will be correct. And then continue to do a thorough pre-flight check of your rig before each jump.


Before you get too excited by this post you need to know that the finger trapped loop in this reserve is not supposed to be stitched down. This post is basically pointing you toward not trusting your rigger without coming right out and saying so. But the person who wrote it is displaying a lack of knowledge about how the loop is even made. Keep an open mind. This loop broke for a reason, no doubt about that, but you won't find the answer here.

And if and when you do find an answer, and even if you don't, please report back to us. This is a serious issue, as you seem to realize. The answer is important.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[councilman24 37]

There is little that YOU can do. This is almost entirely a function of your rigger. Loops, if not damaged during packing and made of the appropriate material, can be expected to not brake. But it is easy for a rigger to damage a loop, actually hard to not damage a loop to some extent. Have packing aids that can damage a loop if not handled correctly. Occasionally I need to open a rig and replace a loop again before giving a rig to a customer. Many riggers replace the loop every pack job. Some riggers base it on condition. Some figure that if it doesn't brake during packing its fine. You want a rigger that replaces it every pack job and takes care not to damage loop during packing.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[DocPop 1]

riggerrob

Regulations ... smegulations ... skydivers only repack pencil their reserve packing card in a paniced week before the big boogie.

Almost right....

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[gowlerk 2,249]

If you lived up in the frozen, and just beginning to thaw Northlands like I do, you would know that this week and next is when all skydivers want repacks. (The community is too small to get away with pencil work)

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[skydiverek 63]

gowlerk

Before you get too excited by this post you need to know that the finger trapped loop in this reserve is not supposed to be stitched down. This post is basically pointing you toward not trusting your rigger without coming right out and saying so. But the person who wrote it is displaying a lack of knowledge about how the loop is even made.

FAA Parachute Rigger Handbook, chapter 7 page 105:

"If the loop is to be used with a reserve container, it may be
required to sew the finger-trapped part of the loop for
security. If this is the case, simply sew the length of the
finger-trapped portion of the loop with a single needle
machine before hot knifing the end. Start at the running
end and sew towards the eye of the loop. Stop sewing
approximately .12" from the eye and then backstitch a
minimum of 1" [Figure F]. Trim the end with the hot
knife."

[gowlerk 2,249]

skydiverek

***Before you get too excited by this post you need to know that the finger trapped loop in this reserve is not supposed to be stitched down. This post is basically pointing you toward not trusting your rigger without coming right out and saying so. But the person who wrote it is displaying a lack of knowledge about how the loop is even made.

FAA Parachute Rigger Handbook, chapter 7 page 105:

"If the loop is to be used with a reserve container, it may be
required to sew the finger-trapped part of the loop for
security. If this is the case, simply sew the length of the
finger-trapped portion of the loop with a single needle
machine before hot knifing the end. Start at the running
end and sew towards the eye of the loop. Stop sewing
approximately .12" from the eye and then backstitch a
minimum of 1" [Figure F]. Trim the end with the hot
knife."



Please see the instructions for installing a closing loop into a CYPRES equipped reserve container. They are NOT sewn. Please don't start down this path of misinformation. It's just another example of bad interweb advice from an unqualified person with limited knowledge. This type of closing loop is no longer used in sport reserve containers in general and NEVER with ANY cutter equipped AAD.

Although if you did use a loop like this it would never break. Weak thin easily damaged closing loops is one of the compromises we make to allow use of cutter type AADs.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[skydiverek 63]

Interesting, especially considering that this Riggers Handbook was published in year 2005, when a vast majority of rigs and jumpers already had an AAD.

[gowlerk 2,249]

Bart, get a CYPRES manual!! Better yet, get a rigger rating. It would help you immensely in your gear sales to have more knowledge.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[gowlerk 2,249]

Quote

FAA Parachute Rigger Handbook, chapter 7 page 105:

"If the loop is to be used with a reserve container, it may be
required to sew the finger-trapped part of the loop for
security. If this is the case, simply sew the length of the
finger-trapped portion of the loop with a single needle
machine before hot knifing the end. Start at the running
end and sew towards the eye of the loop. Stop sewing
approximately .12" from the eye and then backstitch a
minimum of 1" [Figure F]. Trim the end with the hot
knife."

Those instructions do not apply closing loops used with loop cutter AADs. If you could use one of those it would never break. However weak, thin, easily damaged loops are one of the compromises needed to allow us to use cutter type AADs.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[JerryBaumchen 1,436]

Hi skydiverek,

Quote

it may be required to sew

That has got to be just about the most worthless direction(s) I have ever read.

If he had said ' may be sewn' I would be OK with it.

JerryBaumchen

[chuckakers 426]

Many years ago I had a reserve loop give way on the ground and noticed a distinct wear point. Upon inspection there was a tiny section of roughness on a reserve grommet that was just enough to chew at the closing loop until it gave.

Might have a rigger inspect the grommets with a high-powered magnifying glass. Trouble spots can be miniscule in size.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[irishrigger 32]

i found a couple reserve pins that had a couple small nicks in them. i replaced both reserve pins.
other possibilty have been mentioned like grommets and using a winding tool. the loop might have been over stretched when closing the rig. since it broke at the splicing i suspect a nick on the grommet ot overstreching durung the closing sequenze is the most likely suspect.
and in my opinion the reserve loop should and must be replaced with every repack with out fail.

i am just glad this happend on the ground nefore boarding. if that happend on climb out it could have been very nasty for you and the people left on the plane!

[Bertt 0]

The way most containers are constructed, when you close the main top flap, you pull on it in such a way that the reserve bottom flap grommet can pull against the reserve closing loop. It won't happen on all containers, but can happen on some, depending on how tight they are. That can cause wear on the reserve closing loop at a point under the pin where it can barely be seen without a flashlight and a magnifying glass. Any roughness on the grommet will accelerate that wear. Next time you pack your main, you can see if this might be causing the problem.

You don't have to outrun the bear.