God help us - we need it.

[lummy 4]

Being a parent, I am ALWAYS concerned when a kid pretends to point a gun at someone. What does that teach a child? That its ok to idolize guns, it's okay to point it at someone and pull the trigger, That guns are TOYS.
I am not saying the punishment fit the crime, but I certainly wouldn't have just laughed it off saying kids will be kids and NOT use the opportunity to teach my kids right and wrong.
Still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....

[SpeedRacer 1]

well maybe you're right lummy. But I used to play games involving running around & shooting at my friends (as did most kids), and I turned out to be probably more peaceful than the govenrment would like me to be.
I'm not even completely convinced that its a risk factor.
I guess you'd have to compare a group of people who played those types of games as a kid, and another group who did not (if you could find them) and see if the first group grew up to have a greater tendency towards crime or violence.
Speed Racer
"Fill your hand, you son-of-a-bitch!"

[lummy 4]

Speedracer,
You're right. I grew up doing the same things. I played WAR and had army men and the rubber BB guns (the pump shotgun was my favorite) but the simple fact is that itis a different world from what it was 25 years ago. 25 years ago, the concept of the nuclear family was alive and well. Kids were just that, kids and treated as such.
Nowadays, I see 9 year old girls that I wouldn't let out of the house if they were my daughter. Kids that think it's COOL to blow someone away cause they don't like them. Kids that have no concept of respect for themselves or the rest of society. Hey, Sex and violence are on TV all the time, therefore it must be ok.
Whos' fault is it? I have no frickin idea, nor do I really care to debate it (on that note, I should probably keep my own damned mouth shut). All I care about is getting my kids thru life intact and with some moral values that will help them succeed in life.
Still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....

[freefallfreak 0]

lummy,

Quote

All I care about is getting my kids thru life intact and with some moral values that will help them succeed in life.

I think that's about the most dreamed about American dream anyway, isn't it?? Ahh, it's mine anyways...you just said it better than I could have...lol.
TripleF
BOOBIES, BOOBIES, BOOBIES, BOOBIES...(Whoops, I said it again...Tee-hee...)

[mountainman 0]

Quote

What happened to the patriotism you talked so much about???

If I remember correctly, I just noted your lack thereof. I didn't say anything about mine.
JumpinDuo.com...come and sign the guestbook.

[rgoper 0]

a divemaster that once had the priveledge of teaching my incorrigible ass once asked me why i skydive, i thought a second, and said "because i think it's fun" he then asked me "what do you think about when your diving? do you think about your troubles, bills, problems, or just the sky dive?" that, was one of the most profound remarks coming from what i consider to be one of the most influential people of my skydiving life that i have heard to this day.
Lets Go Sky Diving!
Richard
"Gravity Is My Friend"

[AggieDave 6]

You know, Lummy, there is nothing wrong with kids playing war, indians and cowboys (Marines and terrorists, now days...The gun control/gun debate has gone around and around and around and around...so I'm going to leave my thread at this, especially since I'm willing to be just about every single person here already knows my stance.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

[MarkM 0]

As for "kids today", violence in schools has been lower than ever even before all this recent crap about "violence in our schools".
But the problem there is that no one wants to watch a news report on that, it's too boring.
And no, guns are not toys. But they also aren't some form of evil that turns a human into a killer, it's their mis-use that causes problems. Do we not allow our children to play with toy cars? Cars are hardly toys, car mis-use kills and maimes more people each day than guns ever do.
But then our society can't function without cars can it, so we can't hardly blame them for some easy solution to our problems. Ancient humans blamed Gods for their problems, we blame guns, alchohol, smoking, drugs, asbestos, politicians, porn, rock and roll, fags, decaying morals(without ever asking if they really are decaying), evil corporations, anything external to ourselves.
Because it would be so much easier to fix guns, or ban musical lyrics than to try to fix the true problems in our nature that causes these incidents.
But hey! We have "Zero Tolerance" in our schools now. Don't we all just feel warm and fuzzy and safe?

[skyhawk 2]

it itsnt the tvs fault ppl have been killing eachother for years just wasnt really noticed and recorderded hell most things where kept secret it turns out my grandfathers "mother" was in fact his grandmother and his "sister" was his mum no it wasnt inbreeding :) lol it was because his real mother was unmarried when he was born and this was unacceptible. my point is violence has always been around tv hasnt increased it.
you accutaly inadvertibly hit the nail n the head with the phrase
"The problem is that parents have seemed to turn over their parental duties to the TV...sad"
the major point parents have turned over the reponsibilitys it has nothen to do with tv music playen with army men or barbies it is th fact children are left to do what they want. all through history the "elders" have tought the young ppl how to act threw actuual teaching and threw showing. Nowdays alot of kids only rolemodels are themselves and other kids what do you expect them to grow up with. As a kid you see no prob with taking someonelses crayon with no one to tell you different why is taking a car different.
also some of the time it is just the kid.my parents raised me real strict i had barl any freedom hell i got in trouble for saying the word shit. last yr i finished yr 12 if i saw my principle 1 more time i would of been expeled.i was raised good yet sweat like a sailor and acted like a shit inschool, why cause i didnt like it, you cant blame my parents it was partly me and partly cause of my peers, and partly cause my teachers were fuckheads.
point you can blame other things all you want but it comes down to 2 things
1. how we are raised socially, and this isnt just restricted to parents
2.we are humans and will act how we want regardless
(o)(o) i got a iq of 189 so there

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

1. how we are raised socially, and this isnt just restricted to parents
2.we are humans and will act how we want regardless

Yes and no.
Response to item 1: Honestly, I think that the social influences in determining the outcome of a child is less then you make it to be. I for one was raised very strictly, although my social setting due to school, etc., if that was important would have created a dope smoken criminal. It didn't.
Response to item 2: I agree with you to a point, yes we all do act according to our own agenda, however, our agenda was influenced greatly by the belief system that our parents/guardians/etc adhered to; furthermore, if you step away from yourself for a moment and take a few issues you feel adimently about and take a look at how your parents felt about them you will more then likely either agree or disagree due to their influence. No, I'm not saying that you will be exact clones of your parents, but you will believe the way you believe and act the way you act because of your parents. Example, some people start smoking simply because their parents don't want them to.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

[skyhawk 2]

1. i meant it is a cummilation of all your influences, friends,parents,acquintices,teachers,politicians, ppl you have met its more the fact that while society as a whole says this sucks not that much is beeing done to fix it.
a couple of weeks ago a kid was beaton up infront of about 10 ppl in front of a bus station, no one helped they where all waiting for someone else to step, or they where scared or some other excuse, either way the kid was screaming at them for help and they just stared. on the other side there have been countless instenses of ppl stepping in and getting introuble legally for using excesive force there was a guy driven a truck and he saw a cabbie getting beat up so he nudged the cab with his truck to help, he got sent to caught for excessive force, another guy was tryen to break up a fight and got pulled back by someone and started to struggle, turns out the person holding him was an undercover cop so he got charged.
point is society has gotten to a point where if its not our prob we arnt going to fix it. the ppl that try get in trouble for there efforts sure most ppl reading this will prob say oh but i would help but think if you saw 5 big guys beating someone up would you risk getting beaton up as well just to help him??
2.i understnad your point and i agree i didnt specify that well what i meant was more of a broad thing i.e we have the ability to think for ourselves and make desions.Those terrorists chose to crash the planes into the wtc the bush chose to go to afganistan the first i disagree with (like most ppl in this world) the second i support both are from the society that they grew up in so yes it enforces no.1 but there was still the choice the didnt have to hijack the planes and bush didnt have to make the order there where both informed decisions the point is we are ,compared to other species on this planet, highly evolved mentaly we have the ability to ingest huge amounts of information from awide variety of sources which all have an impact on the decision but in the end its our decision.
its just like the kid that breaks into houses, he knows it is wrong, the society he is in says its wrong, but he does it anyway because HE wants to
(o)(o) i got a iq of 189 so there

[skyhawk 2]

wow i need a chill pill lol :)
if it isnt obviuos i want to get into politics one day and acctualy make a difference regardless if i get re-elected or not
(o)(o) i got a iq of 189 so there

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

if it isnt obviuos i want to get into politics one day

As scary as it may seem, me too. Did you go to Boy's State back in high school?
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

[Zennie 0]

See my sig, 'nuff said...
"Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

[skyhawk 2]

As scary as it may seem, me too.
its a good worthwile job if you can do it right :) only thing im worried about is joinen then becoming a real polition i.e dont care about ppl just votes lol
Did you go to Boy's State back in high school?
never heard of them lol :)
(o)(o) i got a iq of 189 so there

[AggieDave 6]

Crap, sorry, I forgot that you're down in OZ, Boys State/Girls State is thing in the US. I won't bore you with the details, but it involves a hands on learning experience when it comes to government and politics. The beatings will continue until morale improves.

[skyhawk 2]

little recruiment drive ??? lol
(o)(o) i got a iq of 189 so there

[AggieDave 6]

Go here to see what I'm talking about: Texas Boys State
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

[skyhawk 2]

Texas Boys State
-The beatings will continue until morale improves.
lol
(o)(o) i got a iq of 189 so there

[AggieDave 6]

Bwwahahahahaha!
Well, it could be worst, I guess, it could have been "Oklahoma Sheep State"
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

[skyhawk 2]

yer but it would be more like the raping will continue lol
(o)(o) i got a iq of 189 so there

[freefallfreak 0]

mountainman,

Quote

If I remember correctly, I just noted your lack thereof. I didn't say anything about mine.

Dude, you did...you talked about how you were proud to live in a state that didn't want to be it's own country...but what concerns me most is this - till you have given parts of your own body, and have bled for this country, (and I have), you have absolutely no way of knowing what patriotism is...so the next time you decide to flame someone, maybe you should try to live up to your own words...and if you don't like America - leave...fly someone else's flag...just don't whine about someone's patriotism till you've given something back to America.
TripleF
BOOBIES, BOOBIES, BOOBIES, BOOBIES...(Whoops, I said it again...Tee-hee...)

[skyhawk 2]

um dont make lisa close this :)
(o)(o) i got a iq of 189 so there

[SpeedRacer 1]

oboy lots o' issues here...we can agree about most of 'em just to what extent.
getting back to the original point, regardless of opinions about playing war games, the zero tolerance thing is insipid bullshit, because its about trying to face a potential danger by seeking refuge in a robotic, mindless, adherence to an extremist policy. What a timid, pathetic way to live.
There are much more important & meaningful things to focus your energies on, and there's no evidence that zero tolerance policies will prevent anything. Matter of fact, they might backfire by causing kids to lose all respect for their teachers & parents (when the adults, for example, call in the police for a six-year-old boy with a piece of paper) & rebel in some destructive manner.
Speed Racer
"Fill your hand, you son-of-a-bitch!"