Packers and pilot chutes

[astleysean 0]

I've never used a packer until last week. Trying to get a load of jumps in and on holiday. I pack slow so thought f**k it, let someone else do it.

Did a few jumps with no problems, then when I checked my main pin following pack job I saw clear white in the bridle window. When I pulled the pilot chute out it was not cocked properly. Some of the kill line was through but by no means all of it, maybe half if I'm generous.

I also saw that the flaps on my rig (Mirage G3) were done up with flap 3 on top not flap 4. The packer apologised, sorted the pilot chute and told me the flaps didn't matter.

I know from reading other posts that some packers expect you to do slider, pilot chute and brakes, I just copied everyone else at the DZ and did brakes only.

If the flaps can be done in any order why do they put numbers on them?
How would you react to this incident?

Thankfully I'm thorough with my checks.

• Quote

[ECVZZ 0]

I use packers a lot, and I always set my own brakes and stow the excess brake line; un-collapse the slider; do a line check & shake the canopy out; and cock my pilot chute.

I won't get into whether or not I think a packer should do those things, as what I think about that is irrelevant. What matters to me is that I know they're done.

If a packer couldn't (or wouldn't) close the container using flap sequence recommended by the mfr, then I wouldn't use that packer.

G. Jones

"I've never been quarantined. But the more I look around, the more I think it might not be a bad idea."

[Guest 1010]

If I don't know the packer long term I always do brakes, pc, and slider.

You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.

[astleysean 0]

I know the "what should you do for a packer" thing has been covered in other posts.
The packer did not expect more than the brakes being set.

My point is really that he made a mistake that could have been serious.

I wondered what other people would do?

Tell the DZ staff and refuse to use the packer then make a fuss and let everyone know he f**ked up? Or accept that if you use a packer you take your chances? Do people think the flaps issue is a sign of a poor attitude or does it really make no difference with a Mirage?

[Guest 1010]

I wouldn't use a packer that closed the flaps in the wrong order intentionally. I wouldn't involve manifest or the dz staff, but I would talk to senior jumpers there and ask them about it. In other words yeah even 100 jumps off student status talk to someone in person whose competence and opinion you respect.

If someone else asks why you aren't using "X" to pack just tell them the truth - you want your flaps closed in order and they don't care about that.

--or-- just pack yourself

You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.

[billvon 2,989]

>If the flaps can be done in any order why do they put numbers on them?

To help you out if you are unsure.

>How would you react to this incident?

Cock the pilot chute the next time. If the flap order bugs you, pack it yourself and close the flaps in any order you choose.

[2shay 0]

I don't and never plan on using a packer, not that they are bad or good. I would work on packing everyday in the evening maybe 3 packs a night to start with and then up to 5 or as many as it takes. time yourself, get with a rigger to make sure you aren't wasting time with certain things on packing that make little to no difference on opening. practice that is the only way to get better. I think if you want to be a good skydiver and make a lot of jumps, fast, efficient, and functional packing is one of the keys. If you insist on using packers i would do slider, pilot chute, etc. before you give it to them just so there is noone to blame but you. Hell after you have done all that you might as well pack it in my opinion.

don't try your bullshit with me!!!

[OSOK 0]

I was taught that unless the grommet is positioned to the right on the flap (like Vectors), then the order doesn't "really" matter... however, it's good to be consistent, so anything that doesn't "say" to close right-left then gets closed left-right.

[Yossarian 0]

i always assumed the reason it was left over right was because it put more pressure on the right flap therefore offering a tighter fit for the bridle on its way to the BOC pouch, just a guess though

[SansSuit 1]

Does anybody here have a quick reference of the closing orders of the various containers? I probably could go to the appropriate websites, but I'm betting somebody already has the information handy.

Thanks

Peace,
-Dawson.
http://www.SansSuit.com
The Society for the Advancement of Naked Skydiving

[demoknite 0]

I was under the impression that the only people certified to pack main parachutes are certified senior/master riggers or the person jumping the rig. it seems a lot of establisments use "packers". It doesnt answer your question directly, but it doesnt seem to ever be addressed on this site.

[OSOK 0]

Quote

I was under the impression that the only people certified to pack main parachutes are certified senior/master riggers or the person jumping the rig. it seems a lot of establisments use "packers". It doesnt answer your question directly, but it doesnt seem to ever be addressed on this site.

Or someone being directly supervised by a rigger.

[popsjumper 2]

I employed the same packer on 3 consecutive jumps.

1. Hard pull, out on second attempt.
2. Hard pull, out on first attempt because I anticipated it.
3. Spun up canopy, cutaway

Should I change packers?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

Quote

I've never used a packer until last week. Trying to get a load of jumps in and on holiday. I pack slow so thought f**k it, let someone else do it.

Did a few jumps with no problems, then when I checked my main pin following pack job I saw clear white in the bridle window. When I pulled the pilot chute out it was not cocked properly. Some of the kill line was through but by no means all of it, maybe half if I'm generous.

I also saw that the flaps on my rig (Mirage G3) were done up with flap 3 on top not flap 4. The packer apologised, sorted the pilot chute and told me the flaps didn't matter.

I know from reading other posts that some packers expect you to do slider, pilot chute and brakes, I just copied everyone else at the DZ and did brakes only.

If the flaps can be done in any order why do they put numbers on them?
How would you react to this incident?

Thankfully I'm thorough with my checks.

You just learned two valuable lessons...

1) The value of doing a gear check before every jump.

2) You pay a packer, you take your chances.

[peregrinerose 0]

Stories like this just piss me off... it makes those of us who do take packing seriously and do it well look bad when there are a few less than conscientous packers out there.

I don't pay a packer, and probably never will, I like packing. If I did, however, there's no way in hell I'd go to that packer again. If that packer is working under the supervision of a rigger, I would mention the situation to the supervising rigger... they may not be aware of it.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[Floats18 0]

How many times are people going to put posts up on DZ.com bitching about packers?

You're chewing up bandwidth.

Some packers care about what they're doing and some want five dollars. I make more at my real job than I ever will packing... your comfort, trust and safety are more important to me than five dollars.

Pick your packer like you pick a surgeon... you're not going to let someone you don't trust poke you with a scalpel so don't let someone you don't trust hang your ass from some strings and a rag. Pick someone who knows the gear. Pick someone who might actually care to drink a beer with you later.

If you don't like it you can pack for yourself. Its not that bad. I've made 13 jumps in a day packing for myself. Or get Jenn or I to pack for you 'cuz we give a shit. or just shut the hell up.

--- and give them wings so they may fly free forever

DiverDriver in Training

[peregrinerose 0]

Kyle, that is one of the best posts I've read on dz.com in a long time.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

I was taught that unless the grommet is positioned to the right on the flap (like Vectors), then the order doesn't "really" matter... however, it's good to be consistent, so anything that doesn't "say" to close right-left then gets closed left-right.

The wings manual contradicts itself in the edition shipped with mine 2 years back - picture says one thing, text says the other. So I did it one way for a stretch, then changed over when it was discussed here and we got clarification from Sunrise. I don't know how much better the 'right' way is, but clearly it wasn't terrible going the other, as several people were doing it as well.

[grue 1]

Quote

Does anybody here have a quick reference of the closing orders of the various containers? I probably could go to the appropriate websites, but I'm betting somebody already has the information handy.

Thanks

Infinity:

Closing loop is on the bottom flap, then top, then left, then right.

cavete terrae.

[grue 1]

I do my brakes and slider when using a packer, but I don't bother with cocking the PC. It's just going to need to be recocked again anyway.

cavete terrae.

[AFFI 0]

Quote

I don't bother with cocking the PC. It's just going to need to be recocked again anyway.

Maybe (most likely)...
-

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[grue 1]

Quote

Quote

Does anybody here have a quick reference of the closing orders of the various containers? I probably could go to the appropriate websites, but I'm betting somebody already has the information handy.

Thanks

Infinity:

Closing loop is on the bottom flap, then top, then left, then right.

ERRRRR I mean right then left. I was tired. Any chance of a mod editing that?

cavete terrae.

[ryan_turner 0]

Quote

I was under the impression that the only people certified to pack main parachutes are certified senior/master riggers or the person jumping the rig. it seems a lot of establisments use "packers". It doesnt answer your question directly, but it doesnt seem to ever be addressed on this site.

You have to be a rigger or be directly supervised by a rigger to pack a parachute for someone else. Most dropzones violate this law. My home dropzone recently started requiring packers to log every packjob and list the supervising rigger. I have used packers at almost every dropzone I have been to and that is definately not the norm.

I am lazy and I like to use packers, but I don't care if they are a rigger or not. I care how well they pack my parachute. It might be a violation of the law, but I would rather be safe than legal. Of course, both would be even better.

[skydivingchad 0]

Ryan,
Your not that lazy..... If you didn't pay us to pack for you then we wouldn't jump as much and then you wouldn't have any one to jump with.

Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.
Pelt Head #3

[kenneth21441 0]

I personally pack my own rigs.

I dont care if the plane is going up or not. So that way I do my own layout, etc.
That way if something happens I only can blame one person myself.

Kenneth Potter
FAA Senior Parachute Rigger
Tactical Delivery Instructor (Jeddah, KSA)
FFL Gunsmith