SkyDekker 1,465 #26 January 30, 2002 Actually I am getting closer and closer to being a vegan. Not eating animal products allowed me to actually lose 30 lbs after I quit smoking.....wich in turn allowed me to jump out off planes.....SkyDekkerPS. I am sure there will be even more flaming now "We cannot do great things, only small things with great love" Mother Theresa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #27 January 30, 2002 Vegan, like the car? Oh, Vega, right...That's cool that you have your convictions that would lead you to be a vegan, but I don't understand. Personally, I love meat and animal products: good steaks, milk, etc. Infact sometime down the road, I hope to have a nice little ranch with just enough cattle around to keep my freezer and my grill full. Out of curiosity, why are you choosing to do this? Primarily because of the ability to loose weight or for personal convictions about animal use, etc? I don't really see how someone would get the right amount of protein with all the different amino acids needed for a healthy lifestyle doing the vegan thing. Atleast if just a vegitarian, you still eat cheese, milk, etc. and receive a lot of that stuff there.Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.-General George Patton- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #28 January 31, 2002 QuoteI don't really see how someone would get the right amount of protein with all the different amino acids needed for a healthy lifestyle doing the vegan thing. Yeah, you can get the proper amino acid balance if you combine the right foods: i.e., grains with legumes, etc. Brewers yeast is good too. Ancient Mesopotamians ate very little meat, but they made beer (earliest pottery from that area were narrow-necked vases for fermenting beer). Beer has brewers yeast which is a good source of protein and Vitamin B12. Vitamin B12 is a problem for vegetarians. So if you're gonna be a vegetarian, drink ALL your beer!I brew beer. Home brewed beer is the healthiest because it still has the living brewers yeast in it. One 12 oz. bottle of home brew has about 2 - 3 gms. protein and 120% of USRDA of Vitamin B12.By the way, I'm not a vegan, I'm a vagin!! That means I'm a , uh, a "muffdiver"!!Speed Racer"Fill your hand, you son-of-a-bitch!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessica 0 #29 January 31, 2002 QuoteSo if you're gonna be a vegetarian, drink ALL your beer!YESSIR!!!!QuoteI don't really see how someone would get the right amount of protein with all the different amino acids needed for a healthy lifestyle doing the vegan thing.It takes a little more effort than our Big Mac-intensive society is generally willing to make, but it can be done. The only thing vegans must take as a supplement is B12. Pet me! I'm harmless and cute! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #30 January 31, 2002 "The only thing vegans must take as a supplement is B12."Not if you drink lots of beer!!!!! "It's the cans..they're defective. Stay away from the cans"-Steve MartinClay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #31 January 31, 2002 QuotePersonally, I love meat and animal productsSo do I, well used to anyways. The problem is that now that I do not eat meat anymore, my body has lost the enzymes it needs to digest it. Hence, when I do eat a slice form time to time, I pay for it by not sleeping for a night because I am in pain. I think I have learned now and just stay away from it.......QuoteOut of curiosity, why are you choosing to do this? I don't want to offend anyone, but for me it has nothing to do with animal rights etc etc. I have lived my life eating loads of meat, cheese, eggs etc. But I have also been about 30 to 40 lbs overweight for pretty much all my life, while smoking at elast a pack a day. To make a long story short, I ended up in the hospital last eyar with some bacterial infection and decided that I qould quit smoking, which I did cold turkey. Naturally withing a week I had gained another 5 lbs from eating anything and everything I could lay my hands on. I knew I needed to do somethign and ended up reading a book by Dr. Dean Ornish. His lifestyle includes a basically fat-free diet, meaning that in general no more than 10% of your calories should come from fat. The onyl way to attain that is by not eating any animal products, since they tend to be high in fat, or at least high in calories from fat. I have been doing this (though I slip from time to time) for just over a year now. I don't smoke anymore, lost roughly 30 Lbs at the same time and have never had amore energy or have I felt better. That is why I eat like I eat.....On a side note, for those interested. The Ornish lifestyle has been proven to reduce and repair the effects of heart disease. It has also been proven to be an extremely successful option for people requiring angioplasty. resulting in most heart patients to be able to not have that operation done and be able to life without talking loads of medication. It is actually so successful that most major insurance companies now reccomend it over the surgery....And yes, I do still sometimes slip off the wagon and eat my cheese (usually the fat-free kind) or have some hot chocolate milk etc etc.....SkyDekker"We cannot do great things, only small things with great love" Mother Theresa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #32 January 31, 2002 Cool, I'm glad to hear that you've gotten your life back on track! That is definately a success story. I went the other way, though, even though it wasn't nearly as an extreme. I was pretty hefty, so I read a lot about nutrition and bodybuilding/powerlifting and turned my diet around to fit that. A lot of meat/protein/etc and a lot of heavy lifting. Works for me but it's not for everyone. Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.-General George Patton- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #33 January 31, 2002 thanks....I still work out 5 to 6 times a week. Mostly combination of weights and cardio. No heavy lifting for me, just soem regular weights work, trying to get this flabby body somewhat toned "We cannot do great things, only small things with great love" Mother Theresa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #34 January 31, 2002 You know, if only more people in America took your approach, not the meat thing necissarily, but the ideals of wanting to better themselves, we would be better off as a nation. Healthier people could lead to happier people, more self confidence, etc. And, hey I'd atleast be able to walk down the isle at Wal-Mart without having to guide around the slow moving barges...Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.-General George Patton- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #35 January 31, 2002 yeah, and never mind all of that.....it is amazing how much better I feel not smoking and living a somewhat healthy life. Things taste better, feel better, sex is better and yes Jessica, vegetarian women absolutely taste better.......SkyDekker"We cannot do great things, only small things with great love" Mother Theresa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #36 January 31, 2002 "Jessica, vegetarian women absolutely taste better......."Dammitt!!! Yet another dating criteria........."It's the cans..they're defective. Stay away from the cans"-Steve MartinClay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #37 January 31, 2002 You say that, but you ever hear the stuff about women who eat a lot of tomatos? Effects the taste very badly...Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.-General George Patton- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #38 January 31, 2002 It's not necessarily true that animal products = high fat and vegetarian = low fat. Especially if you choose high-quality, lean meats. Try comparing the fat content of nice lean top round steak to that of tofu sometime, and you may be surprised. I agree if you're talking about crap like balogna, hot dogs, etc.Problem with extreme low fat diets: Depending on the person, these can make you fat over time! Fats can sometimes make you feel more full for a longer period of time so you wind up eating less.Also (again depends on the individual) extremely low fat diets can reduce glucagon levels which can affect your mood, i.e., causing depression or irritability in some people.It's great that you've quit smoking. Lotta people complain that quitting smoking causes them to gain weight, but I think its just a short term efffect. I have no scientific data for this, but just observing all my friends over the years: The ones who smoke seem more likely to wind up as overweight slobs and the ones that don't are more likely to be lean and atheletic.Speed Racer"Fill your hand, you son-of-a-bitch!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #39 January 31, 2002 QuoteTry comparing the fat content of nice lean top round steak to that of tofu sometime, and you may be surprisedI could not agree with you more. Thankfully there are very good options these days when it comes to fat-free tofu. The body will also digest that much faster. The digestive track in a human body was never really "designed" to handle meat. Early man was not a meat eater and we have not been around enough for our bodies to evolve to adapt to this change. hence meat is digested by staying in the stomach and rot....QuoteFats can sometimes make you feel more full for a longer period of time so you wind up eating less.true, however, if you eat less, the body goes into starvation mode. Meanign it stores everything you eat. it is not getting much nutrition and hance the body is preparing for "leaner" times. This lifestyle allows me to eat as much as I want, when I want etc etc. The trick is not in how much you eat, it is in what you eat.......Disclaimer: These are just my beliefs and I know that the majority of people on these forums will disagree with me "We cannot do great things, only small things with great love" Mother Theresa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #40 January 31, 2002 "hence meat is digested by staying in the stomach and rot...."Sure tastes good going down though!!! "It's the cans..they're defective. Stay away from the cans"-Steve MartinClay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #41 January 31, 2002 QuoteThe trick is not in how much you eat, it is in what you eat.......Yes and no. People don't eat enough, what I mean by that is that they only eat 2-3 large, not-healthy meals a day. If they would strive for 5 meals a day, of something a bit more healthier then a supersized BigMac and Coke then they would be a big step ahead. Besides fast food, the biggest problem with eating habits in America right now is that since people only eat 2-3 meals a day, they eat waaay too much and they're bodies are used to not eating frequently enough so it stores what it can get.Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.-General George Patton- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #42 January 31, 2002 QuoteThe digestive track in a human body was never really "designed" to handle meat. Early man was not a meat eater and we have not been around enough for our bodies to evolve to adapt to this change. hence meat is digested by staying in the stomach and rot This isn't actually true. Our closest relatives physiologically are chimpanzees and gorillas, and even they are not strictly vegetarians. They eat meat from time to time when they can get it, hunting down birds, rodents, even occasionally killing monkeys.But it is clear that humans are significantly further down the carnivorous end of the spectrum than the other large primates. Compare the digestive tract of a human to a chimp of equal size and weight, and you see that the human's digestive tract is 30% shorter. Shorter digestive tract is a characteristic of carnivores, because meat is a more concentrated food source and therefore, there doesn't need to be such an extended trip through a long digestive tract to absorb the nutrients out of it.First tools were pebble choppers used by Homo habilis in order to break the large bones of animal carcasses to get the bone marrow out. And our ancestors living in grassland environments during the Ice Ages would have had trouble surviving as vegetarians in that climate.The idea that meat just sits in the stomach and rots is totally wrong. It leaves the stomach about as fast anything else, about 45 minutes before its out past the duodenum. There were a few trendy diet books that claimed this stuff about meat. One comes to mind: Harvey(?) and Marilyn Diamond's Fit For Life diet. Granted, their book was an extreme example of dietary misinformation. In this diet you're not supposed to eat starchy high carb food in the same meal with high protein food, and you only eat fruit for breakfast.Turns out the human digestive tract is perfectly capable of handling starches and proteins together. The Diamonds claimed to have PhD's in nutrition, then it turned out that their PhD's came from a non-accredited college, i.e., just some guy who started his own fake college with his own ideas, and gave out PhD's. The Diamond's book is still sold, even when the New England Journal of Medicine reported that people following their diet were experiencing excessive weakness and fatigue.In short, when it comes to diet books, there's a whole lotta bullshit out there. Humans are physiologically designed to be not strict carnivores or herbivores, but omnivores. Although you can be pretty healthy with a lot of leeway in either direction.-Speed Racer"Fill your hand, you son-of-a-bitch!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #43 January 31, 2002 All you need to remember is one word...Balance. "It's the cans..they're defective. Stay away from the cans"-Steve MartinClay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emma 0 #44 January 31, 2002 Quotevegetarian women absolutely taste better...Ah, a man after my own heart (or....my...something).On the vege/ low fat thing - I really hate it when restaurants/ airlines etc assume that not eating meat = not eating anything unhealthy, fattening etc. Don't forget, butter, oil and sugar are all 100% vegetarian. Thank God! And pies.....where would we be without vegetarian PIES? The reason I'm vegetarian is I just don't like eating dead bodies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #45 January 31, 2002 QuoteThe reason I'm vegetarian is I just don't like eating dead bodies. Ever try to eat a LIVE chicken??? Trust me, I know. They go down a lot easier AFTER they're dead!Speed Racer"Fill your hand, you son-of-a-bitch!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emma 0 #46 January 31, 2002 LOL...ew....chocolate poo come back, all is forgiven.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #47 January 31, 2002 "They go down a lot easier AFTER they're dead!"Ozzy says live bats are much tastier than the recently deceased! "It's the cans..they're defective. Stay away from the cans"-Steve MartinClay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emma 0 #48 January 31, 2002 'Live' meat (of a type) certainly has its...attractions.....As long as one doesn't actually digest... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #49 January 31, 2002 "'Live' meat (of a type) certainly has its...attractions....."GOOD GIRL "It's the cans..they're defective. Stay away from the cans"-Steve MartinClay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emma 0 #50 January 31, 2002 uhh...sorry..thought I was at the DZ for a minute there....ignore me please Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
