Skydivur17 0 #1 May 16, 2014 I want to know what the benefits and costs are of having stowless d-bags versus semi-stowless versus regular d-bags. I just order a Curv system (new everything) as my first rig and wanted to make sure I got what I really wanted. Good advice is appreciated Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites monkycndo 0 #2 May 16, 2014 Sandy from RI has an all magnetic stowless d-bag he is working on. UPT has their semi-stowless as does VSE with their Party-bag. I love my Party bag for WS or any other jump. No reason not to get one.50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites theplummeter 15 #3 May 16, 2014 I jump an Infinity right now, but have a Curv on order. I just spent two weeks in Eloy and during the multiple wind holds I wandered over to Rigging Innovations and took a look at everything. The magnet bag is awesome, I can't wait to try it. RI has published packing instructions with some photos on their website under the support section that show how it works. Sandy and Angela gave us a demonstration at the factory. http://rigginginnovations.com/files/Docuemnts/6/MAG-STOW%20PACKING%20INSTRUCTIONS.pdf My current Infinity has the party bag, which works either way (you can pack semi-stowless or put bands on top of the bag and use it like a normal bag). I get much better openings packing stowless than fully stowed, but I've always wondered if there wasn't a better way to control the lines than shoving them into a pouch. I prefer the RI or UPT setup in that respect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mattjw916 2 #4 May 16, 2014 never had an issue with regular d-bags... don't see any reason to changeNSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ctrph8 0 #5 May 16, 2014 Skydivur17I want to know what the benefits and costs are of having stowless d-bags versus semi-stowless versus regular d-bags. I just order a Curv system (new everything) as my first rig and wanted to make sure I got what I really wanted. Good advice is appreciated [.:)] I'm kind of ruined when it comes to the regular D-bags that I used for 20 years. I got my first semi-stowless from UPT and can see absolutely no reason to go back. None. My openings are better. Packing it is a breeze and I only have to replace two rubber bands (the locking stows) as opposed to the rest of them which only broke if I left my stash of them in the car. I was kind of nervous about line dump or... SOMETHING because we had done it the same way for so long. This change felt strange but after a couple of months I was totally over it. The problem wasn't the gear. It was my mindset. I probably wouldn't go for a completely stowless bag. Those two stows keep everything nice and neat until the lines are at full extension. I have not seen the one from R I in person but I saw the pictures. It looks pretty slick! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hellis 0 #6 May 16, 2014 ctrph8***I want to know what the benefits and costs are of having stowless d-bags versus semi-stowless versus regular d-bags. I just order a Curv system (new everything) as my first rig and wanted to make sure I got what I really wanted. Good advice is appreciated [.:)] I'm kind of ruined when it comes to the regular D-bags that I used for 20 years. I got my first semi-stowless from UPT and can see absolutely no reason to go back. None. My openings are better. Packing it is a breeze and I only have to replace two rubber bands (the locking stows) as opposed to the rest of them which only broke if I left my stash of them in the car. I was kind of nervous about line dump or... SOMETHING because we had done it the same way for so long. This change felt strange but after a couple of months I was totally over it. The problem wasn't the gear. It was my mindset. I probably wouldn't go for a completely stowless bag. Those two stows keep everything nice and neat until the lines are at full extension. I have not seen the one from R I in person but I saw the pictures. It looks pretty slick! I have a completly magnetic bag and the reason I bought it was mainly because I hate replacing rubberbands. What I never thought I would be packing quicker because of this bag, but it has really speed up the packing. And I'm not a slow packer. I regulary pack my canopy in about 6-7 minutes neatly. I can make a rushpack in probably 5 and still be very happy with it but knowing it will open harder. With this bag it has made the packing quicker. I only thought it would make a difference when/if a rubberband needed to be replaced. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GLIDEANGLE 1 #7 May 16, 2014 Bear in mind that your rig will come with two bags. One is certian to be "semi-stowless". Your reserve will live in that bag. My point is that this is NOT new technology... we have used it in reserve systems for many years with great success. The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites grantunderland 0 #8 May 16, 2014 I switched to UPT's semi-stowless around 150 jumps when I was on a 170@ 1.2. While I wasn't as aware then as I am now about my deployments, I did notice smoother and more consistent openings then. I went back to regular dbags for a few hundred jumps when I swapped containers, and just got one back. I notice the difference even more now. Easier to pack, and more consistent and on heading opennings. Well worth the investment IMO Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuckakers 425 #9 May 16, 2014 mattjw916 never had an issue with regular d-bags... don't see any reason to change Jump a stowless for a while and you may change your mind. Beyond being easier and faster to pack after getting familiar with it, a stowless bag give better, more consistent openings. One advantage - line twists are sometimes caused by a d-bag that rotates as the rubber bands release the stows unevenly. A stowless bag releases the lines smoothly from the center of the bag, virtually eliminating that possibility. Chances are good you already jump a stowless bag - on your reserve. Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuckakers 425 #10 May 16, 2014 monkycndoSandy from RI has an all magnetic stowless d-bag he is working on. UPT has their semi-stowless as does VSE with their Party-bag. I love my Party bag for WS or any other jump. No reason not to get one. RI released their semi-stowless for orders yesterday! I have one on the way and will share my experience after a few hops.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GooniesKid 0 #11 May 16, 2014 Skydivur17I want to know what the benefits and costs are of having stowless d-bags versus semi-stowless versus regular d-bags. I just order a Curv system (new everything) as my first rig and wanted to make sure I got what I really wanted. Good advice is appreciated [.:)] Got a semi-stow on my Vector 3 and i can't complain. To tell you the truth i'm lazy..so any way to save packing time is a plus. I hated stowing on regular d-bags and replacing rubber bands (when i replace the bands i usually replace them all for consistency). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zlew 0 #12 May 16, 2014 chuckakers ,... a stowless bag give better, more consistent openings. One advantage - line twists are sometimes caused by a d-bag that rotates as the rubber bands release the stows unevenly. A stowless bag releases the lines smoothly from the center of the bag, virtually eliminating that possibility. The line twist issue is the primary reason I have a UPT bag on both of my rigs (UPT and Sunpath). The times I have line twist before I hit line stretch have dropped considerably. Maybe once or twice in the last 5-600 jumps? edit to add- and even then never more than 1 twist. Jumping camera wings with a big ass burble, and canopies that often do not behave well in line twists, the stowless bag is well worth the $. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites theplummeter 15 #13 May 16, 2014 chuckakers ***never had an issue with regular d-bags... don't see any reason to change Jump a stowless for a while and you may change your mind. Beyond being easier and faster to pack after getting familiar with it, a stowless bag give better, more consistent openings. One advantage - line twists are sometimes caused by a d-bag that rotates as the rubber bands release the stows unevenly. A stowless bag releases the lines smoothly from the center of the bag, virtually eliminating that possibility. Chances are good you already jump a stowless bag - on your reserve. Line twists were exactly the problem I was having. I commited to stowless packing and have had twists only one time since, on a wingsuit jump with an unstable deployment. The magnetic bag was offered to me at Square2 when I purchased the Curv so I opted for it. Sandy also mentioned that he is working on a MARD system and revisiting magnetic riser covers, both which will be retrofit options for current owners. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryBaumchen 1,364 #14 May 16, 2014 Hi plmmeter, Quote http://rigginginnovations.com/...G%20INSTRUCTIONS.pdf I was visiting RI back in Feb. Sandy showed me a prototype version of his ( then called ) MagLock bag. I offered him some ideas to improve it. Seems as though he paid attention. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GooniesKid 0 #15 May 16, 2014 JerryBaumchen Hi plmmeter, Quote http://rigginginnovations.com/...G%20INSTRUCTIONS.pdf I was visiting RI back in Feb. Sandy showed me a prototype version of his ( then called ) MagLock bag. I offered him some ideas to improve it. Seems as though he paid attention. JerryBaumchen I remember a thread about that, Jerry! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mattjw916 2 #16 May 16, 2014 I don't have any problems to fix with my openings though so to me a stowless bag is just a solution searching for a problem. Even my dislike of the old Mirage split d-bag can't motivate me to replace it since it just works so well. Plus the layout of the stows on the bag would seem to minimize any oscillations since the last stow is dead center and the next six are quite narrow compared to the first three.NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #17 May 16, 2014 Regular. Rubber bands are cheap, and work.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites monkycndo 0 #18 May 17, 2014 diablopilotRegular. Rubber bands are cheap, and work. How many rubber bands are on a free bag?50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mark 107 #19 May 17, 2014 monkycndo How many rubber bands are on a free bag? . . . Waiting for the Racer fans to chime in here. . . Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites monkycndo 0 #20 May 17, 2014 mark ***How many rubber bands are on a free bag? . . . Waiting for the Racer fans to chime in here. . . Mark I know JP hasn't drank the Racer Kool-Aid. But thanks for playing. Vanna, what has Mark won?50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pnuwin 0 #21 May 17, 2014 Does the UPT semi-stowless bag add more bulk? If you have a full fitting main, will it be tighter in the container? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Cambalectri 0 #22 May 17, 2014 pnuwinDoes the UPT semi-stowless bag add more bulk? If you have a full fitting main, will it be tighter in the container? Same question as ''Pnuwin'' ! Does the UPT or other similar semi-stowless bag (Jerry's ) add more bulk ? However, I have a slightly loose fitting main, will it add volume to the container ? In my case, it would be beneficial. Thanks ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryBaumchen 1,364 #23 May 17, 2014 Hi Cambalectri, Quotesemi-stowless bag (Jerry's ) add more bulk ? I think that any difference is rather insignificant. For the NoStoBag, you eliminate a number of rubber bands ( two are still req'd ) but you do add the two tuck tabs and the pockets that they tuck into. I had my hands on a UPT stowless bag for a number of weeks a year or so ago and I think the same for them. I would think that any 'difference' would be less than the packing technique/ability of the packer. Differences in packing can add or delete more 'bulk' IMO. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Deyan 36 #24 May 17, 2014 Cambalectri***Does the UPT semi-stowless bag add more bulk? If you have a full fitting main, will it be tighter in the container? Same question as ''Pnuwin'' ! Does the UPT or other similar semi-stowless bag (Jerry's ) add more bulk ? However, I have a slightly loose fitting main, will it add volume to the container ? In my case, it would be beneficial. Thanks ! Just think about it. 350 cu.in. canopy is a 350 cu.in. canopy regardless where you gonna stow the lines. If the bag is properly sized for the container, you will not notice any change in the bulk. I've jumped several stowless and semi-stowless "mass production" bags and some custom made prototypes and never had to change the length of the loop. The experience from others may vary"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #25 May 17, 2014 monkycndo***Regular. Rubber bands are cheap, and work. How many rubber bands are on a free bag? It's doing a different job.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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monkycndo 0 #2 May 16, 2014 Sandy from RI has an all magnetic stowless d-bag he is working on. UPT has their semi-stowless as does VSE with their Party-bag. I love my Party bag for WS or any other jump. No reason not to get one.50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theplummeter 15 #3 May 16, 2014 I jump an Infinity right now, but have a Curv on order. I just spent two weeks in Eloy and during the multiple wind holds I wandered over to Rigging Innovations and took a look at everything. The magnet bag is awesome, I can't wait to try it. RI has published packing instructions with some photos on their website under the support section that show how it works. Sandy and Angela gave us a demonstration at the factory. http://rigginginnovations.com/files/Docuemnts/6/MAG-STOW%20PACKING%20INSTRUCTIONS.pdf My current Infinity has the party bag, which works either way (you can pack semi-stowless or put bands on top of the bag and use it like a normal bag). I get much better openings packing stowless than fully stowed, but I've always wondered if there wasn't a better way to control the lines than shoving them into a pouch. I prefer the RI or UPT setup in that respect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattjw916 2 #4 May 16, 2014 never had an issue with regular d-bags... don't see any reason to changeNSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ctrph8 0 #5 May 16, 2014 Skydivur17I want to know what the benefits and costs are of having stowless d-bags versus semi-stowless versus regular d-bags. I just order a Curv system (new everything) as my first rig and wanted to make sure I got what I really wanted. Good advice is appreciated [.:)] I'm kind of ruined when it comes to the regular D-bags that I used for 20 years. I got my first semi-stowless from UPT and can see absolutely no reason to go back. None. My openings are better. Packing it is a breeze and I only have to replace two rubber bands (the locking stows) as opposed to the rest of them which only broke if I left my stash of them in the car. I was kind of nervous about line dump or... SOMETHING because we had done it the same way for so long. This change felt strange but after a couple of months I was totally over it. The problem wasn't the gear. It was my mindset. I probably wouldn't go for a completely stowless bag. Those two stows keep everything nice and neat until the lines are at full extension. I have not seen the one from R I in person but I saw the pictures. It looks pretty slick! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellis 0 #6 May 16, 2014 ctrph8***I want to know what the benefits and costs are of having stowless d-bags versus semi-stowless versus regular d-bags. I just order a Curv system (new everything) as my first rig and wanted to make sure I got what I really wanted. Good advice is appreciated [.:)] I'm kind of ruined when it comes to the regular D-bags that I used for 20 years. I got my first semi-stowless from UPT and can see absolutely no reason to go back. None. My openings are better. Packing it is a breeze and I only have to replace two rubber bands (the locking stows) as opposed to the rest of them which only broke if I left my stash of them in the car. I was kind of nervous about line dump or... SOMETHING because we had done it the same way for so long. This change felt strange but after a couple of months I was totally over it. The problem wasn't the gear. It was my mindset. I probably wouldn't go for a completely stowless bag. Those two stows keep everything nice and neat until the lines are at full extension. I have not seen the one from R I in person but I saw the pictures. It looks pretty slick! I have a completly magnetic bag and the reason I bought it was mainly because I hate replacing rubberbands. What I never thought I would be packing quicker because of this bag, but it has really speed up the packing. And I'm not a slow packer. I regulary pack my canopy in about 6-7 minutes neatly. I can make a rushpack in probably 5 and still be very happy with it but knowing it will open harder. With this bag it has made the packing quicker. I only thought it would make a difference when/if a rubberband needed to be replaced. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLIDEANGLE 1 #7 May 16, 2014 Bear in mind that your rig will come with two bags. One is certian to be "semi-stowless". Your reserve will live in that bag. My point is that this is NOT new technology... we have used it in reserve systems for many years with great success. The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grantunderland 0 #8 May 16, 2014 I switched to UPT's semi-stowless around 150 jumps when I was on a 170@ 1.2. While I wasn't as aware then as I am now about my deployments, I did notice smoother and more consistent openings then. I went back to regular dbags for a few hundred jumps when I swapped containers, and just got one back. I notice the difference even more now. Easier to pack, and more consistent and on heading opennings. Well worth the investment IMO Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 425 #9 May 16, 2014 mattjw916 never had an issue with regular d-bags... don't see any reason to change Jump a stowless for a while and you may change your mind. Beyond being easier and faster to pack after getting familiar with it, a stowless bag give better, more consistent openings. One advantage - line twists are sometimes caused by a d-bag that rotates as the rubber bands release the stows unevenly. A stowless bag releases the lines smoothly from the center of the bag, virtually eliminating that possibility. Chances are good you already jump a stowless bag - on your reserve. Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 425 #10 May 16, 2014 monkycndoSandy from RI has an all magnetic stowless d-bag he is working on. UPT has their semi-stowless as does VSE with their Party-bag. I love my Party bag for WS or any other jump. No reason not to get one. RI released their semi-stowless for orders yesterday! I have one on the way and will share my experience after a few hops.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GooniesKid 0 #11 May 16, 2014 Skydivur17I want to know what the benefits and costs are of having stowless d-bags versus semi-stowless versus regular d-bags. I just order a Curv system (new everything) as my first rig and wanted to make sure I got what I really wanted. Good advice is appreciated [.:)] Got a semi-stow on my Vector 3 and i can't complain. To tell you the truth i'm lazy..so any way to save packing time is a plus. I hated stowing on regular d-bags and replacing rubber bands (when i replace the bands i usually replace them all for consistency). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zlew 0 #12 May 16, 2014 chuckakers ,... a stowless bag give better, more consistent openings. One advantage - line twists are sometimes caused by a d-bag that rotates as the rubber bands release the stows unevenly. A stowless bag releases the lines smoothly from the center of the bag, virtually eliminating that possibility. The line twist issue is the primary reason I have a UPT bag on both of my rigs (UPT and Sunpath). The times I have line twist before I hit line stretch have dropped considerably. Maybe once or twice in the last 5-600 jumps? edit to add- and even then never more than 1 twist. Jumping camera wings with a big ass burble, and canopies that often do not behave well in line twists, the stowless bag is well worth the $. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theplummeter 15 #13 May 16, 2014 chuckakers ***never had an issue with regular d-bags... don't see any reason to change Jump a stowless for a while and you may change your mind. Beyond being easier and faster to pack after getting familiar with it, a stowless bag give better, more consistent openings. One advantage - line twists are sometimes caused by a d-bag that rotates as the rubber bands release the stows unevenly. A stowless bag releases the lines smoothly from the center of the bag, virtually eliminating that possibility. Chances are good you already jump a stowless bag - on your reserve. Line twists were exactly the problem I was having. I commited to stowless packing and have had twists only one time since, on a wingsuit jump with an unstable deployment. The magnetic bag was offered to me at Square2 when I purchased the Curv so I opted for it. Sandy also mentioned that he is working on a MARD system and revisiting magnetic riser covers, both which will be retrofit options for current owners. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,364 #14 May 16, 2014 Hi plmmeter, Quote http://rigginginnovations.com/...G%20INSTRUCTIONS.pdf I was visiting RI back in Feb. Sandy showed me a prototype version of his ( then called ) MagLock bag. I offered him some ideas to improve it. Seems as though he paid attention. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GooniesKid 0 #15 May 16, 2014 JerryBaumchen Hi plmmeter, Quote http://rigginginnovations.com/...G%20INSTRUCTIONS.pdf I was visiting RI back in Feb. Sandy showed me a prototype version of his ( then called ) MagLock bag. I offered him some ideas to improve it. Seems as though he paid attention. JerryBaumchen I remember a thread about that, Jerry! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattjw916 2 #16 May 16, 2014 I don't have any problems to fix with my openings though so to me a stowless bag is just a solution searching for a problem. Even my dislike of the old Mirage split d-bag can't motivate me to replace it since it just works so well. Plus the layout of the stows on the bag would seem to minimize any oscillations since the last stow is dead center and the next six are quite narrow compared to the first three.NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #17 May 16, 2014 Regular. Rubber bands are cheap, and work.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #18 May 17, 2014 diablopilotRegular. Rubber bands are cheap, and work. How many rubber bands are on a free bag?50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark 107 #19 May 17, 2014 monkycndo How many rubber bands are on a free bag? . . . Waiting for the Racer fans to chime in here. . . Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #20 May 17, 2014 mark ***How many rubber bands are on a free bag? . . . Waiting for the Racer fans to chime in here. . . Mark I know JP hasn't drank the Racer Kool-Aid. But thanks for playing. Vanna, what has Mark won?50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pnuwin 0 #21 May 17, 2014 Does the UPT semi-stowless bag add more bulk? If you have a full fitting main, will it be tighter in the container? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cambalectri 0 #22 May 17, 2014 pnuwinDoes the UPT semi-stowless bag add more bulk? If you have a full fitting main, will it be tighter in the container? Same question as ''Pnuwin'' ! Does the UPT or other similar semi-stowless bag (Jerry's ) add more bulk ? However, I have a slightly loose fitting main, will it add volume to the container ? In my case, it would be beneficial. Thanks ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,364 #23 May 17, 2014 Hi Cambalectri, Quotesemi-stowless bag (Jerry's ) add more bulk ? I think that any difference is rather insignificant. For the NoStoBag, you eliminate a number of rubber bands ( two are still req'd ) but you do add the two tuck tabs and the pockets that they tuck into. I had my hands on a UPT stowless bag for a number of weeks a year or so ago and I think the same for them. I would think that any 'difference' would be less than the packing technique/ability of the packer. Differences in packing can add or delete more 'bulk' IMO. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deyan 36 #24 May 17, 2014 Cambalectri***Does the UPT semi-stowless bag add more bulk? If you have a full fitting main, will it be tighter in the container? Same question as ''Pnuwin'' ! Does the UPT or other similar semi-stowless bag (Jerry's ) add more bulk ? However, I have a slightly loose fitting main, will it add volume to the container ? In my case, it would be beneficial. Thanks ! Just think about it. 350 cu.in. canopy is a 350 cu.in. canopy regardless where you gonna stow the lines. If the bag is properly sized for the container, you will not notice any change in the bulk. I've jumped several stowless and semi-stowless "mass production" bags and some custom made prototypes and never had to change the length of the loop. The experience from others may vary"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #25 May 17, 2014 monkycndo***Regular. Rubber bands are cheap, and work. How many rubber bands are on a free bag? It's doing a different job.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
