To cut or not to cut?

[flyingferret 0]

I jump mainly at a Cessna 182 dropzone, so a lot of people on here might not have any experience to answer this question. But here goes:
I have been jumping at this DZ for almost 2 years, flown with probably 6 pilots. I know you can cut in a Cessna, becuase a huge majority of my jumps in a Cessna have had a cut on jumprun. Well on Saturday, we were attempting to launch a sitfly train out of the cessna. This is pretty squeezed and you need footroom, plus you are facing the wingtip, not the prop, which makes it a little difficult to keep your feet, since you cannot angle on the step edge. Anyway, the winds were 30knots at 10,000 and we were flying straight into the wind on jumprun, plus the Cessna at cruise speed, so I am estimating that we had a good 120knots + on jumprun. Keeping footing was a bitch.
Anyway, the next jump, I asked the pilot on the taxiway, if he could cut a little bit? He says, "well, it all depends on how much altitude you want to lose." with a little cocky bit thrown in. Now I don't really like this jump pilot anyway, as he is always showing up late and leaving early, and you get the impression he flies jumpers just to get the money. So, I felt like saying, "Hey I pay the lift tickets that pay your salary, so if I request a cut that costs me a couple hundred feet tops, well just fly the plane." But all I said was, "Well maybe just a little bit of cut would really help." So this load, he cuts a bit, but I dont think he was happy, cause he initiated jump run at 10K, low for even a Cessna DZ. So, later when one of the students says something to him about cutting, just kinda joking around, he says, "Man, I don't do that for hardly anyone."
So here is my question, "Is it that big a deal to cut?" I know the stall speed on a Cessna is pretty damn low, and with experienced jumpers climbing out in 5-10 seconds max, I would not think it was a big thing. My personal guess is, since this guy is pretty young, he might not feel very comfortable flying jumpers yet, and he is not confident in cutting and holding the plane. Which is fine, he should not do things that are unsafe, but then he should tell us that, and maybe not fly jumpers. I know the cut can be done, because I have flown with many many pilots who pull it off fine, some to the point you almost feel the plane float. So what does everyone else think? Am I spoiled? or is the pilot just cocky?
Malachi

[skybytch 273]

I jumped at a Cessna DZ for the first 6 years I was jumping. Our pilots had to know how to cut 'cuz we put static line jumpers out on a direct bag system; they'd usually cut back to around 90 knots on every jump run. Yes it's harder for the pilot to maintain control and yes you will probably lose a couple hundred feet of altitude while everyone gets situated on the step, but a good pilot should be able to deal with it and keep the altitude loss from being too extreme.
I'd mention the situation to the dzo and have him/her talk to the pilot.
pull and flare,
lisa
--
Life is tough, but I'm tougher

[rapper4mpi 0]

I'm the same person that gave advice on how to launch a train out of a Cessna 182 and like I said, we can launch a 4-way out of a Cessna 206. Regardless, I come from a DZ where we have very good pilots that almost always give us a cut, BUT if the pilot isn't comfortable doing so, you gotta ease off. The best thing you can do is just refuse to fly with him if he's being rude. The DZO will get the hint and talk with the pilot. You asked him once and he cut for you though? So he'll probably do it again, epecially if he sees there is a demand for it. One other thing, if you practice exiting your train without a cut, you will get better at it, not to worry. And being able to jump out of any plane at any speed will only serve to make you a better jumper! Have fun, be safe!
Oh yeah, one more thing, the 2nd person ont he step should make the count, not the first.
-Rap

[Dutchboy 0]

Most of what you are feeling outside of a Cessna 182 is the prop blast, and not really dependent on your airspeed. The winds aloft also have no effect on your airspeed or the wind you feel in the door since it is airspeed and not groundspeed that counts to the airplane.
If the pilot does give you a cut you will probably lose some altitude. If you have 4 people on the outside causing lots of drag then the choice is either to descend or stall. I try to keep the 182 above 60 mph. Another thing to keep in mind. If the pilot give you a cut there is less propwash hitting you and the tail of the plane. This means he'll need to have a higher airspeed to have the same control effectiveness.
It isn't quite as simple as looking up the clean stall speed in the pilot operating handbook. You've got extra drag on one side, weight shifting around, weight hanging from a wing, etc. to deal with.
The Dutchboy
CFI, CFII, AGI, IGI
http://www.philsflying.com

[freeflir29 0]

"It isn't quite as simple as looking up the clean stall speed in the pilot operating handbook"
I was looking for the "Four Monkies hanging under right wing configuration" stall speed in the manual the other day. Never found it so I sent off an email to Cessna regarding this oversight on their part. "I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"
Clay

[Muenkel 0]

It really is up to the parents. Some religions make it a ceremony, like the Jewish faith. Some do it for hygeine reasons.....Oh, I thought this was a thread about circumcision.
Never mind.
"I am a victim of my environment."
Chris