Unregulated US Dropzones

[3fLiEr 0]

Just curious - are there dropzones in the US that are not controlled by the USPA (i think thats your version of the BPA) as in there are no strict regulations and a more relaxed attitude to rules??...... I have heard someone mention that there are were........... am I right or did I dream this???..........
bsbd
"In a world where we are slaves to gravity I am pleased to be a freedom fighter"

[wildblue 7]

There are DZs that aren't USPA members, if that's what you're asking.
Although I've only been to one such DZ, the rules weren't any more relaxed than any other place I've been. Actually, I'm sure it's safer than some USPA member DZs that I've visited.
I ain't happy, I'm feeling glad
I got sunshine, in a bag

[E150 0]

I found the two US DZ's that I have visited (of which I'm certain are both regulated by the USPA), to be more relaxed in their attitude than the UK.
I find American people to be a bit more layed back than the Brits.
This is what I observed. . . . .
* No flight line kit checks (certainly no signatures taken).
* No designated jump master. Everyone just kinda askes about to see what each is doing and gets in/out accordingly.
* No designated spotter (because no jumpmaster), the first one out tends to do it.
* No questioning your jump numbers/qualifications if you get on the plane to do freeflying (or 'humm - not in that kit your not').
* More likely to be invited onto a big way (10 ) without being asked how many jump numbers/qualification you have.
* Can pull at altitude if you get clearance.
* Can take inflatables on a jump without asking permission.
* Can do any form of bizzar exit without being asked what the fook you were doing (when you land).
Just things that I noticed, I'm not saying every DZ in the US is like this. You just have to look out for yourself a bit more, cos you don't have a jump master making any descisions for you.
It has advantages and dissadvantages. I must admit, I like the way the Brits look out for everyone so well. But, I also like the slightly more layed back fun side to US DZ's. I'm sure it must depend on the DZ owners and staff a bit.

[skybytch 273]

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More likely to be invited onto a big way (10 ) without being asked how many jump numbers/qualification you have.

Really? To me that's pretty dangerous. Whenever I've jumped with an organizer who I haven't jumped with before I've always been asked how many jumps I have and what size formations I've been in. I would expect that of any good organizer; the more information they have about the jumpers on their dives the better the jumps tend to turn out.

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are there dropzones in the US that are not controlled by the USPA

There are dz's that are not USPA group members yes. Lodi in California is one. But just because they aren't USPA group members doesn't mean they are more relaxed about basic safety - have a Cypres fire at Lodi and I'll bet you'd be grounded just like in the UK.
pull and flare,
lisa
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[E150 0]

Re: 'Getting invited onto big ways'
I was generalising. I'm certain not everyone is like this. I ment your more likely be asked to join a big way, with fewer questions asked. Here (in the UK) its question question question (which I think is a good thing).
If I got invited onto something I did not think I was ready for, I'd say 'No'.

[Muenkel 0]

I believe Shea Stadium is not a USPA DZ.
You're going to have to think back 15 years to get this one.
Don't you hate when work interferes with skydiving?

[prost 0]

Last time I checked, Mike Mullin's place in Tennesse was not a Uspa group member. Usually this stems from some disagreement with USPA. I think the deal at Mullin's place is him flying his kids so young.

[mountainman 0]

That is weird that it would not be USPA group since he's on the Board. (right?). oh well...
JumpinDuo.com...come and sign the guestbook.

[PhreeZone 20]

He's on the board alright.... only write-in canidate to get on! He's had his disagreements with the USPA for a while, he was elected to make changes and he's starting to do that now. Non-members are almost as many as member DZ's, but the far majority of them only have 1 or 2 182's. There are probally less then 15 non-member DZ's with a turbine and only like 5 or less with something larger then a King Air.
I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique

[Topcat 0]

If I recall correctly, Mike Mullins thinks the USPA should not have a group membership program. He is a member of the USPA and all of his instructors are, as well.
WTS is a great place to skydive, IMHO.
-Sandy

[freefallfreak 0]

Topcat,

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WTS is a great place to skydive, IMHO.

No doubt...cool place...Lotsa fun...
FFF

[flyhi 24]

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He's on the board alright.... only write-in canidate to get on!

I thought there was another this time. Was it Roger Nelson? Or was it a regional director that was a write-in? Can't remember.
Is it hot in here, or am I crazy? - Charles Manson
flyhi

[PhreeZone 20]

Roger's name was on the Ballot. A regional Director won by write in. There is a severe lack of canidates for the regional positions. If you are interested in the least about the future of the sportand have an interest in politics, run next election!
I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique

[sunshine 2]

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as in there are no strict regulations and a more relaxed attitude to rules??......

Well I think it matters more how the DZO runs the place. I've been to both kinds of DZ's and I've witnessed some scary stuff at a few DZ's that are USPA members. I've seen people drink a beer before getting on a load, and I know of people that have jumped while stoned. As for the non-member DZ, I've never seen anything unsafe there.
Cowboy take me away, fly this girl as high as you can into the wildblue ~ Dixie Chicks

[kevin922 0]

In response to this - i know one USPA DZ that shouldn't be one! The dropzone in Las Vegas which does not allow experienced jumpers. In my mind, if you're gonna be a USPA dropzone you need to allow USPA members to jump there. Not just be a tandem factory. They should take away the USPA membership to this DZ.

[Zennie 0]

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i know one USPA DZ that shouldn't be one! The dropzone in Las Vegas which does not allow experienced jumpers.

I think Mikey Hawkes let his USPA group membership lapse (which is what I had heard). Only the Las Vegas Gravity Zone (run by the same folks who run the wind tunnel) is now listed at the USPA website.
I really don't consider SDLV a dropzone. It's just a glorified rollercoaster ride for tourists. And heck, if you just want adrenaline, do the bungy jump out in front of Circus Circus.
"Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

[quade 4]

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Just curious - are there dropzones in the US that are not controlled by the USPA . . .

The United States Parachute Association doesn't actually control any drop zones in the U.S.. Drop zones can be "Group Members" of the USPA if they wish by taking a pledge to follow certain USPA "requirements" and paying a fee. In return, the Group Member drop zone can then use this status in it's advertising as well as get other support from the USPA in the form of legal lobbying. There are other benefits as well. The USPA is -not- a legal regulating body.
The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration writes the regulations regarding parachutes and their usage in the U.S.
Some of the USPA Basic Safety Requirements are mearly restatements of existing FAA Federal Aviation Regulations.
For instance, it's a BSR of the USPA that all jumpers at night have lighting visible for three miles while under canopy. This is superfluous since there is already an FAA FAR (law) that requires the exact same thing.
Other USPA BSRs are logical extentions of the FAA FARs, but they are not legally binding in and of themselves.
For instance, the USPA -recommends- that individuals perfoming night jumps have a a "B license" or higher, but in fact, if you wanted to do your entire jumping career at night from first jump until you retire . . . there is no -legal- reason in the U.S. that you couldn't. I'll admit, it might be difficult to find an instructor . . . but there's no reason it couldn't be done and done legally in the U.S..
The FAA regulations are binding at all drop zones in the U.S. and it's territories whether the drop zones are USPA Group Members or not.
All of the above said, just because something is legal, doesn't make it safe. Just because something is not legal, doesn't make it unsafe.
quade
http://futurecam.com

[Sebazz1 2]

I only know of one non - USPA Group member DZ and that's Lodi in California. It's proof that self regulation works. They are for the most part a pretty safe DZ. There used to be another place several years ago in Mendota California. I heard some bad things about that place. Needless to say since they were shut down.
Sebazz.........

[skybytch 273]

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Needless to say since they were shut down.

Really? So what's Frank doing these days?
pull and flare,
lisa
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[BikerBabe 0]

Well, the largest US DZ that isn't a USPA group member (at least it wasn't last year) is probably Skydive Greene County in Ohio.
It's also the oldest DZ in the country. They had a dispute with USPA over the new training programs, so they pulled out. But it is one of the biggest, best, and safest DZ's I've ever jumped at. They have a CASA, a Westwind Beech, and a cessna or two (I think).
Just letting you know.

[prost 0]

I don't think they have been jumping that westwind lately. Our plane was broke and we leased it for the weekend. The pilot landed without putting the landing gear down (ouch). Made for quite a show. They just started working on it after sitting there for several months.
William

[lazerq3 0]

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The pilot landed without putting the landing gear down

And what was his reason for that!!
jason

[PhreeZone 20]

Actually, we have the Casa, 2 Westwinds, and 2 Beech 18's. The Pilot just forgot to make sure it went all the way down. It'll be back up... Skydive Naples lost thier King Air the same way. The second Westwind is down there right now and the Casa is in Lake Wales.
I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique

[skymedic 0]

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And what was his reason for that!!

Jason, you are obviously not a pilot...
there is a saying that goes..there are two types of pilots..those that have and those that will...
I had a friend who has over 20,000 hrs of flying big iron, and little planes....he put his 1953 T-34B on the deck this past summer..It is usualy complaceny that causes a gear up landing.....
marc
"...a mind stretched with new idea's will never regain its shape"

[lazerq3 0]

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Jason, you are obviously not a pilot

Well...........obviously!!!!!!!!
jason