Rebecca-Berlin 0 #1 June 4, 2014 I am selling my reserve and got this offer: Reserve Speed-170, 2003, for 350 Euros (476 dollars) Should I ask for more? The canopy has never been used. Thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #2 June 4, 2014 What is the price of the new canopy ?. Price should be around half the price of a new (a tad less maybe)scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebecca-Berlin 0 #3 June 4, 2014 A new Speed 170 is 910 Euros. So half would be 455 Euros. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #4 June 4, 2014 so maybe then 400€ would be the correct price, if you base the canopy life on 20 yearsscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebecca-Berlin 0 #5 June 4, 2014 My rigger seemed to suggest the canopy had a life of 15 years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #6 June 5, 2014 Doesn't Germany have a mandatory 15 year service life?I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maksimsf 0 #7 June 5, 2014 Rebecca-Berlin I am selling my reserve and got this offer: Reserve Speed-170, 2003, for 350 Euros (476 dollars) Should I ask for more? The canopy has never been used. Thanks! You may get a few more bucks from a US jumper since any Master Rigger can re-certify reserve, but as far as I know in EU this reserve is good only for 4 more years? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #8 June 5, 2014 "... You may get a few more bucks from a US jumper since any Master Rigger can re-certify reserve ... ............................................................................ Where does it say that in the Federal Air Regulations? Rob Warner FAA Master Rigger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebecca-Berlin 0 #9 June 5, 2014 Thanks for your responses!I have told my rigger 400 Euros would be ok. But I am curious if the same reserve is certified for 15 years in Europe yet 20 years in the US. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #10 June 5, 2014 Rebecca-Berlin Thanks for your responses!I have told my rigger 400 Euros would be ok. But I am curious if the same reserve is certified for 15 years in Europe yet 20 years in the US. Unless there is a life limit listed in the manual (and I didn't see one but I went through it quickly) it can be certified in the US as long as a rigger finds it airworthy and is willing to pack it. Some US riggers will not pack reserves more than 20 yrs old but this is an arbitrary limit and not something required by any rules."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lyosha 50 #11 June 5, 2014 Rebecca-Berlin Thanks for your responses!I have told my rigger 400 Euros would be ok. But I am curious if the same reserve is certified for 15 years in Europe yet 20 years in the US. There is no set date for a reserve in the USA. It's whatever a rigger will pack for you. I have friends jumping with reserves so old (>25 years old) the rigger at my DZ refused to pack them, but the container manufacturer packed it for them. I have also seen riggers refuse to pack non-TSO'd reserves in a non-TSO'd container, only to have another rigger pack that reserve and put his stamp on it. My reserve is a ~17 year old PDR. Those last ~20 years until you have to send it in for re-inspection, and who knows what happens then. Couldn't have asked more from it my last chop. I do plan on sending it in to PD for inspection after this season though to get the fabric tested. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #12 June 5, 2014 lyosha ***Thanks for your responses!My reserve is a ~17 year old PDR. Those last ~20 years until you have to send it in for re-inspection, 40 pack jobs or 25 deployments. Age is not a factor."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #13 June 5, 2014 Most of the PD reserves have passed their 40 repack/25 deployment factory inspection and Performance Designs has re-certified them to return to service. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #14 June 5, 2014 There is a practical reason why many riggers refuse to pack reserves more than 20 years old. Back during the 1980s, a bad batch of mesh snuck into factories that made round reserves. Some of that ACID MESH deteriorated some batches of F-111 fabric. A few round reserves got grounded until they could be tested and re-certified. Only a handful of FAA-registered lofts had FAA approval to re-certify reserves ACID MESH FREE. In the long run, the FAA Airworthiness Directive was only a short-term measure, because wise skydivers replaced their acidic round reserves with Ravens and Swifts as quickly as they could. Military-surplus round mains faded from North American skydiving schools by 1990. Round reserves almost disappeared by 2000. By 2010, the FAA quietly allowed DPREs to make round reserves optional when testing new riggers. So good luck in finding a young rigger who knows how to pack a round reserve. Even more luck finding a grumpy, old grey-bearded FAA Master Rigger has a dusty copy of the manual for your 20-year-old round reserve. Forget about finding a skydiving instructor (less than 40 years old) who has jumped a round canopy! Hah! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #15 June 6, 2014 riggerrob So good luck in finding a young rigger who knows how to pack a round reserve. Even more luck finding a grumpy, old grey-bearded FAA Master Rigger has a dusty copy of the manual for your 20-year-old round reserve. Forget about finding a skydiving instructor (less than 40 years old) who has jumped a round canopy! Hah! Weird. I am a younger rigger, not old grey-bearded one. I have ratings and I haven't been jumping anywhere close to 40 years. I got plenty of round manuals, I have packed (and continue to pack) plenty of rounds, and I have jumped and landed plenty of various rounds (both reserves and mains). sorry, just wanted to brag :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #16 June 6, 2014 likestojump*** So good luck in finding a young rigger who knows how to pack a round reserve. Even more luck finding a grumpy, old grey-bearded FAA Master Rigger has a dusty copy of the manual for your 20-year-old round reserve. Forget about finding a skydiving instructor (less than 40 years old) who has jumped a round canopy! Hah! Weird. I am a younger rigger, not old grey-bearded one. I have ratings and I haven't been jumping anywhere close to 40 years. I got plenty of round manuals, I have packed (and continue to pack) plenty of rounds, and I have jumped and landed plenty of various rounds (both reserves and mains). sorry, just wanted to brag :) ............................................................................... You sir, are an anomaly! I challenge you to show me your manuals for the following parachutes: Advanced Air PEP Asquito PEP Ballistic Recovery Systems' PEP Butler Headrest pack Eclipse PEP Flying High's Slimline PEP Free Flight Enterprises' Preserve 5 canopy Handbury PEP Irvin lap-pack Jump Shack PEP National seat-type PEP Parachutes Australia long PEP Parachutes de France Flex-Pack Para-Phernalia "Softie" containing a square canopy Pioneer Thin-Pack PISA back-type PEP Reltny lap-pack Rigging Innovations' Aviator Security 150, 250, 350 and 550 Spekon RE-5L Stewart Systems PEP Westway pilot emergency parachute Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebecca-Berlin 0 #17 June 6, 2014 Sorry to interrupt the round reserve challenge. Good luck with that. Just wanted to mention that my (square) reserve sold for 400 Euros today. The money will go toward 20 tickets for 8-way team training. Thanks for your help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridebmxbikes 0 #18 June 6, 2014 likestojump *** So good luck in finding a young rigger who knows how to pack a round reserve. Even more luck finding a grumpy, old grey-bearded FAA Master Rigger has a dusty copy of the manual for your 20-year-old round reserve. Forget about finding a skydiving instructor (less than 40 years old) who has jumped a round canopy! Hah! Weird. I am a younger rigger, not old grey-bearded one. I have ratings and I haven't been jumping anywhere close to 40 years. I got plenty of round manuals, I have packed (and continue to pack) plenty of rounds, and I have jumped and landed plenty of various rounds (both reserves and mains). sorry, just wanted to brag :) I know a guy with a 31 year old round reserve and he has no problem getting it re-packed. The rigger says a lot of people wouldnt touch it because of its age but it looks brand new and passes all the tests so why not! He just says good luck with all the trees if you ever have to use it ive been trying to trade him my mr150 for it but he wont go for it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #19 June 6, 2014 My FAA inspector expects me to test senior rigger candidates on both round and ramair. And I expect to train and test both. Next lap rating test is in a couple of weeks. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,373 #20 June 6, 2014 Hi erry, Quote Next lap rating test is in a couple of weeks It is interesting what a couple of routine conversations will result in. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DoZ3r 0 #21 June 7, 2014 riggerrob****** So good luck in finding a young rigger who knows how to pack a round reserve. Even more luck finding a grumpy, old grey-bearded FAA Master Rigger has a dusty copy of the manual for your 20-year-old round reserve. Forget about finding a skydiving instructor (less than 40 years old) who has jumped a round canopy! Hah! Weird. I am a younger rigger, not old grey-bearded one. I have ratings and I haven't been jumping anywhere close to 40 years. I got plenty of round manuals, I have packed (and continue to pack) plenty of rounds, and I have jumped and landed plenty of various rounds (both reserves and mains). sorry, just wanted to brag :) ............................................................................... You sir, are an anomaly! I challenge you to show me your manuals for the following parachutes: Advanced Air PEP Asquito PEP Ballistic Recovery Systems' PEP Butler Headrest pack Eclipse PEP Flying High's Slimline PEP Free Flight Enterprises' Preserve 5 canopy Handbury PEP Irvin lap-pack Jump Shack PEP National seat-type PEP Parachutes Australia long PEP Parachutes de France Flex-Pack Para-Phernalia "Softie" containing a square canopy Pioneer Thin-Pack PISA back-type PEP Reltny lap-pack Rigging Innovations' Aviator Security 150, 250, 350 and 550 Spekon RE-5L Stewart Systems PEP Westway pilot emergency parachute This challenge is awesome! :DIf everything seems under control.. You're just not going fast enough..! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deyan 36 #22 June 7, 2014 DoZ3r ********* So good luck in finding a young rigger who knows how to pack a round reserve. Even more luck finding a grumpy, old grey-bearded FAA Master Rigger has a dusty copy of the manual for your 20-year-old round reserve. Forget about finding a skydiving instructor (less than 40 years old) who has jumped a round canopy! Hah! Weird. I am a younger rigger, not old grey-bearded one. I have ratings and I haven't been jumping anywhere close to 40 years. I got plenty of round manuals, I have packed (and continue to pack) plenty of rounds, and I have jumped and landed plenty of various rounds (both reserves and mains). sorry, just wanted to brag :) ............................................................................... You sir, are an anomaly! I challenge you to show me your manuals for the following parachutes: Advanced Air PEP Asquito PEP Ballistic Recovery Systems' PEP Butler Headrest pack Eclipse PEP Flying High's Slimline PEP Free Flight Enterprises' Preserve 5 canopy Handbury PEP Irvin lap-pack Jump Shack PEP National seat-type PEP Parachutes Australia long PEP Parachutes de France Flex-Pack Para-Phernalia "Softie" containing a square canopy Pioneer Thin-Pack PISA back-type PEP Reltny lap-pack Rigging Innovations' Aviator Security 150, 250, 350 and 550 Spekon RE-5L Stewart Systems PEP Westway pilot emergency parachute This challenge is awesome! :D Hey Mads, do you thing I should join the challenge, or it won't be fair? I totally fit the profile "young, black bearded, jumped all kind of round parachutes, packing a lot of old rounds per year, only 16 years in the sport" ETA: Packed some reserves that most old FAA grey-bearded master riggers will never see in their career! Such as PN-58, S4-U, Z-5, Z1-P, PZ 81, B-8...... and the list goes on "My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
