mountainman 0 #1 December 23, 2001 Well, today at Grand Lake Skydiving which is located quite close to Celina, OH (and Grand Lake), a skydiver from New Bremen (where some of my family lives about 40 min from me) drown in the lake while being blown over there due to winds. I guess he wasn't VERY experienced and so another more experienced person went over to him to try to help with the landing. A person on the side went out to retrieve the two guys but they were only able to save the more experienced guy (he had a wetsuit on). The other guy has not been found yet and will resume tomorrow morning with the search.My thoughts are with his family in New Bremen and the people at the DZ. It is a small DZ with one C-182 and a Beech that is not being used yet, so you know this loss will affect them hard.Please pray for them and their families.-------------JumpinDuo.com...news, guestbook, and links. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freaksister 0 #2 December 23, 2001 My prayers are with everyone. SisI feel so alive,for the very first time-and I think I can fly! - P.O.D. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cyberskydive 0 #3 December 23, 2001 I so hate to hear that, too many folks gettin hurt etc lately, any word whether these guys had real water training? How large is the lake? Flotation gear big?http://www.cyberskydive.com/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #4 December 23, 2001 The lake is the largest man dug lake in the world. Its a good 5-8 miles across and a couple of hundred feet deep in parts. It's less then 40 minutes from where I'm at now.... I want to wish condoliences to the family, friends and anyone else who is morning the loss of one of our own...Anymore real concrete information would be nice, I've heard two different versions so far of who drowned, one here and one on the news......I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mountainman 0 #5 December 23, 2001 QuoteI've heard two different versions so far of who drownedWhat do you mean? It was the man who first started headed over there, right? The more experienced person had a wetsuit on and was rescued. That is how I heard it...anymore info would be greatly appreciated. Grand Lake Skydiving is not USPA as far as I know.-------------JumpinDuo.com...news, guestbook, and links. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diverdriver 6 #6 December 23, 2001 Quote I'm thinking a GPS spot screwed the jumpers and the rest went down hill quickly.Ok, how the heck can you blame a friggin GPS? Was the door open? Did you look down? A GPS doesn't turn a light on or open a door. That communication street, my friends, goes two ways. Did the jumpers ask what the spot was before they exited or did they check the winds aloft themselves before they went? And excuse me, but I've given a jumper a perfect spot before with my GPS and he still landed out a mile and a half on a night jump and broke his leg.This is probably an overreaction on my part but it's a personal pet pieve of mine to blame an inatimate object (GPS) for having a bad spot. Let's get facts before posting speculation please.Chris SchindlerD-19012ATP/CFIIhttp://www.DiverDriver.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Viking 0 #7 December 23, 2001 Damn dude thats sad to hear this close to the holidays . How cold is it up there this time of year?? They only thing i can think of is that the temp of the water took it breath away and he paniced. damn that makes me nervous jumping right next to a lake I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #8 December 23, 2001 I found this for a bit more clarification......http://www.limanews.com/mainpage/frontpage.htmlNew Bremen man drowns in parachuting accident--------------------------------------------------------------------------------By TIM RAUSCH trausch(at)limanews.com 419-993-2097 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------MONTEZUMA - Rescuers were able to get Jason Krieg's parachute. They were not able to get him. Krieg, 29, of New Bremen was one of two parachutists who landed around 4 p.m. Saturday in Grand Lake St. Marys near the Bass Landing residential area. Searchers were not able to rescue Krieg, who is believed to have drown. Grand Lake St. Marys park manager Frank Giannola said the search for Krieg's body stopped after dark Saturday and should resume this morning. The second parachutist, Bruce Cyphers of St. Marys, was rescued from the lake and was not injured, Giannola said. "They parachuted at 9,000 feet off of the town of Chickasaw," Giannola said. "They did a couple of maneuvers. I'm gathering the wind conditions prevented them from getting to their landing zone." Giannola said the two overshot their intended landing spot at Montezuma's airport. On the third attempt to land, Giannola said, it seemed Krieg could have landed, but not Cyphers, who was drifting toward the lake. "The jumpmaster (Krieg) stayed up, they both landed in the lake," which was 400 feet north of Bass Landing, Giannola added. Cyphers was wearing a wetsuit that insulated him from the cold water. Krieg was not wearing such protection, Giannola said. Giannola said people on the shore of the lake immediately saw the pair land in the water. Two people got into a boat and retrieved Cyphers. Krieg came out of the water as the boaters approached him. "Then he went back down and they never saw him again," Giannola said. The rescuers pulled in the parachute thinking he might still be attached, but Krieg was not. Searching for Krieg were members of the Celina Fire Department dive team. Assisting were officials with the park, Mercer County Sheriff's Office and Montezuma Fire Department. The search for Krieg stopped at 6:15 p.m., more than an hour after it had become dark. The search will resume at dawn today, Giannola said. "Kind of a tragic thing this late in the year," Giannola said. Krieg is the third death on the lake this year. "Which is a lot, really, for us," Giannola said. Cyphers was not injured, Giannola said. A woman answering Cyphers' phone said they did not want to comment. I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mountainman 0 #9 December 23, 2001 Thanks for the news Phree. That is the local newspaper here where I live. I guess I looked too early to find it.-------------JumpinDuo.com...news, guestbook, and links. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Brokeneagle 0 #10 December 23, 2001 All our prayers for Jason's family and friends; the worst/harshest part of our sport is to lose someone... I pray the rescue team does their job quickly so that healing closure can begin... Brokeneagle. I'm really very gentle, no matter what my kung-fu teacher says... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airann 1 #11 December 23, 2001 Oh Lord, that is really bad. My heartfelt sympathy is with the family and and all those who knew this jumper.Water training is important. Sounds like he got out. But the Lake called his name. Sometimes there is just nothing you can do. http://www.AirAnn.comUgly Girl #6 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mountainman 0 #12 December 23, 2001 I have a question for you all. This guy lived a few blocks down from my grandma and this town is like a couple thousand and everyone knows everyone.Give me an idea on what I can do for this family. Should I send them a sympathy card from Laura and I as "sympathetic skydivers"? Just wondering what would be appropriate.Thank you all!-------------JumpinDuo.com...news, guestbook, and links. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Pammi 0 #13 December 23, 2001 My sympathies and prayers :( As for what to do for the family, I don't know. I've always wondered if the family and friends sometimes hate to even hear the word skydiving or us skydivers in general when things like this happen. I suppose it depends on the family and how they felt about it when the person was alive. Closing pin jewelry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mountainman 0 #14 December 24, 2001 Pammi....that is pretty much why I ask. I guess I'll ask my grandma if she knew them or what. Thanks for the thought.-------------JumpinDuo.com...news, guestbook, and links. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cyberskydive 0 #15 December 24, 2001 Its been my experience that families are usually very surprised when fellow skydivers show support in their time of need. I think its important to show them how much you care. When they see the comraderie we as skydivers share maybe they can begin to understand why we skydive, and why skydivng means so much to us. Show your support! It will help the healing process begin for them, and for you.As far as what you should do, thats up to you guys. Why not get a group of skydivers together and collect photos and pictures and present it to them when you visit? Sort of like a scrapbook or something? http://www.cyberskydive.com/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Aviatrr 0 #16 December 26, 2001 Quote Ok, how the heck can you blame a friggin GPS? Was the door open? Did you look down? A GPS doesn't turn a light on or open a door. That communication street, my friends, goes two ways. Did the jumpers ask what the spot was before they exited or did they check the winds aloft themselves before they went? I think he was referring to the fact that maybe the pilot turned on the light(or called for exit) when the GPS showed what he was looking for.....and maybe a waypoint was incorrectly entered....or the guy read the GPS wrong.....Look down before exiting? What a novel idea! Aren't YOU the one that criticized me for saying that NOBODY should exit before verifying the spot, or having somebody they trust(if they cannot see sufficiently to do it themselves, such as a late diver) verify it? IIRC, you said that the jumpers should trust somebody like yourself(an experienced jumper and jump pilot) to judge the spot and turn on the light when it's time to go.....follow the green light in blind faith, right? It'll never do you wrong......Regardless, I doubt it was a "GPS spot gone bad".....it was likely a decent spot, and with the winds blowing strong, somebody turned downwind and continued to run......but, then again, who knows - none of us were there..Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #17 December 26, 2001 I agree. Send cards.The best thing skydivers can do to support the family is to attend the funeral in large numbers wearing skydiving t-shirts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyhi 24 #18 December 26, 2001 QuoteGive me an idea on what I can do for this family.You're never wrong to express true sympathy and condolences after a tragic loss. Have seen everything at a time like that (food, flowers, shoveling snow, cutting grass, a hug, just talking) and if it comes from the heart, it is appreciated. He was a member of our family, and you are there for all of us. Although most of us never met him, he will be missed. flyhi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diverdriver 6 #19 December 27, 2001 Quote IIRC, you said that the jumpers should trust somebody like yourself(an experienced jumper and jump pilot) to judge the spot and turn on the light when it's time to go.....follow the green light in blind faith, right? It'll never do you wrong......Regardless, I doubt it was a "GPS spot gone bad".....it was likely a decent spot, and with the winds blowing strong, somebody turned downwind and continued to run......but, then again, who knows - none of us were there..Mike,Maybe my criticism was misplaced or I thought you were talking about something else.Maybe I can clearify. A jumper can misread the ground just as easily as a jump pilot can misread a GPS. It's choosing that exit point that is important and then making sure the aircraft goes over that point in a way that jumpers can exit there. Jumpers SHOULD look down for other aircraft and to see where they are. But if they don't know how to judge what is going on with the aircraft and winds aloft then they should get someone who does know to assist them. I believe that person CAN be the pilot if they have enough experience. I would even suggest that I have a better "Bird's Eye View" using the moving map than a jumper leaning out the door. I have information on ground speed and track (to judge the true wind direction and strength), and pinpoint accuaracy of my current position. I also have information on time to my exit point so I can judge when to turn on the green light. Knowing what the ground speed is can be very important in the spacing of exits. I can tell you right away what spacing should be instead of what I see some places doing of adjusting the spacing ONLY after the first load comes down. Jumpers SHOULD ask the pilot where the jump run starts and what to expect so they can clarify or modify what the pilot is going to do before departure.I feel there is a misconception among jumpers that the pilot can only track to one point over the ground using GPS. Using a moving map you can judge position using many different points. I have not "programmed" a waypoint in four years using my GPS. I spot jumprun as though I was actually looking out the door at the ground. That's the beauty of moving map GPS.I hope this will clearify some of my views on spotting and use of GPS. If not, feel free to email me. Chris SchindlerD-19012ATP/CFIIhttp://www.DiverDriver.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #20 December 27, 2001 You'll never convince me that looking at a GPS gives you an advantage over looking out the jump door. I certainly give major props to pilots that can consistantly give good spots from the pilot seat of an Otter. That's a skill that takes a long time and many jump runs/screw ups to perfect. But.....any jumper that has a descent amount of experience and has bothered to learn can pick their spot on the ground (provided they know the upper level and lower level wind) and can use the MK-1 eyeball to judge separation. I have waited much longer than "The Pilot" said to before because it just didn't look right. Only to find out that we had an unusually slow ground speed on that run becuase of the aircraft load or the winds were higher than expected. Mind you this is with a pilot that has 15 years or more experience flying jumpers. Nobody is perfect but I'll go with the view out the door any day!"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
PhreeZone 20 #4 December 23, 2001 The lake is the largest man dug lake in the world. Its a good 5-8 miles across and a couple of hundred feet deep in parts. It's less then 40 minutes from where I'm at now.... I want to wish condoliences to the family, friends and anyone else who is morning the loss of one of our own...Anymore real concrete information would be nice, I've heard two different versions so far of who drowned, one here and one on the news......I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mountainman 0 #5 December 23, 2001 QuoteI've heard two different versions so far of who drownedWhat do you mean? It was the man who first started headed over there, right? The more experienced person had a wetsuit on and was rescued. That is how I heard it...anymore info would be greatly appreciated. Grand Lake Skydiving is not USPA as far as I know.-------------JumpinDuo.com...news, guestbook, and links. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 6 #6 December 23, 2001 Quote I'm thinking a GPS spot screwed the jumpers and the rest went down hill quickly.Ok, how the heck can you blame a friggin GPS? Was the door open? Did you look down? A GPS doesn't turn a light on or open a door. That communication street, my friends, goes two ways. Did the jumpers ask what the spot was before they exited or did they check the winds aloft themselves before they went? And excuse me, but I've given a jumper a perfect spot before with my GPS and he still landed out a mile and a half on a night jump and broke his leg.This is probably an overreaction on my part but it's a personal pet pieve of mine to blame an inatimate object (GPS) for having a bad spot. Let's get facts before posting speculation please.Chris SchindlerD-19012ATP/CFIIhttp://www.DiverDriver.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking 0 #7 December 23, 2001 Damn dude thats sad to hear this close to the holidays . How cold is it up there this time of year?? They only thing i can think of is that the temp of the water took it breath away and he paniced. damn that makes me nervous jumping right next to a lake I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #8 December 23, 2001 I found this for a bit more clarification......http://www.limanews.com/mainpage/frontpage.htmlNew Bremen man drowns in parachuting accident--------------------------------------------------------------------------------By TIM RAUSCH trausch(at)limanews.com 419-993-2097 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------MONTEZUMA - Rescuers were able to get Jason Krieg's parachute. They were not able to get him. Krieg, 29, of New Bremen was one of two parachutists who landed around 4 p.m. Saturday in Grand Lake St. Marys near the Bass Landing residential area. Searchers were not able to rescue Krieg, who is believed to have drown. Grand Lake St. Marys park manager Frank Giannola said the search for Krieg's body stopped after dark Saturday and should resume this morning. The second parachutist, Bruce Cyphers of St. Marys, was rescued from the lake and was not injured, Giannola said. "They parachuted at 9,000 feet off of the town of Chickasaw," Giannola said. "They did a couple of maneuvers. I'm gathering the wind conditions prevented them from getting to their landing zone." Giannola said the two overshot their intended landing spot at Montezuma's airport. On the third attempt to land, Giannola said, it seemed Krieg could have landed, but not Cyphers, who was drifting toward the lake. "The jumpmaster (Krieg) stayed up, they both landed in the lake," which was 400 feet north of Bass Landing, Giannola added. Cyphers was wearing a wetsuit that insulated him from the cold water. Krieg was not wearing such protection, Giannola said. Giannola said people on the shore of the lake immediately saw the pair land in the water. Two people got into a boat and retrieved Cyphers. Krieg came out of the water as the boaters approached him. "Then he went back down and they never saw him again," Giannola said. The rescuers pulled in the parachute thinking he might still be attached, but Krieg was not. Searching for Krieg were members of the Celina Fire Department dive team. Assisting were officials with the park, Mercer County Sheriff's Office and Montezuma Fire Department. The search for Krieg stopped at 6:15 p.m., more than an hour after it had become dark. The search will resume at dawn today, Giannola said. "Kind of a tragic thing this late in the year," Giannola said. Krieg is the third death on the lake this year. "Which is a lot, really, for us," Giannola said. Cyphers was not injured, Giannola said. A woman answering Cyphers' phone said they did not want to comment. I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mountainman 0 #9 December 23, 2001 Thanks for the news Phree. That is the local newspaper here where I live. I guess I looked too early to find it.-------------JumpinDuo.com...news, guestbook, and links. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brokeneagle 0 #10 December 23, 2001 All our prayers for Jason's family and friends; the worst/harshest part of our sport is to lose someone... I pray the rescue team does their job quickly so that healing closure can begin... Brokeneagle. I'm really very gentle, no matter what my kung-fu teacher says... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airann 1 #11 December 23, 2001 Oh Lord, that is really bad. My heartfelt sympathy is with the family and and all those who knew this jumper.Water training is important. Sounds like he got out. But the Lake called his name. Sometimes there is just nothing you can do. http://www.AirAnn.comUgly Girl #6 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mountainman 0 #12 December 23, 2001 I have a question for you all. This guy lived a few blocks down from my grandma and this town is like a couple thousand and everyone knows everyone.Give me an idea on what I can do for this family. Should I send them a sympathy card from Laura and I as "sympathetic skydivers"? Just wondering what would be appropriate.Thank you all!-------------JumpinDuo.com...news, guestbook, and links. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pammi 0 #13 December 23, 2001 My sympathies and prayers :( As for what to do for the family, I don't know. I've always wondered if the family and friends sometimes hate to even hear the word skydiving or us skydivers in general when things like this happen. I suppose it depends on the family and how they felt about it when the person was alive. Closing pin jewelry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mountainman 0 #14 December 24, 2001 Pammi....that is pretty much why I ask. I guess I'll ask my grandma if she knew them or what. Thanks for the thought.-------------JumpinDuo.com...news, guestbook, and links. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cyberskydive 0 #15 December 24, 2001 Its been my experience that families are usually very surprised when fellow skydivers show support in their time of need. I think its important to show them how much you care. When they see the comraderie we as skydivers share maybe they can begin to understand why we skydive, and why skydivng means so much to us. Show your support! It will help the healing process begin for them, and for you.As far as what you should do, thats up to you guys. Why not get a group of skydivers together and collect photos and pictures and present it to them when you visit? Sort of like a scrapbook or something? http://www.cyberskydive.com/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Aviatrr 0 #16 December 26, 2001 Quote Ok, how the heck can you blame a friggin GPS? Was the door open? Did you look down? A GPS doesn't turn a light on or open a door. That communication street, my friends, goes two ways. Did the jumpers ask what the spot was before they exited or did they check the winds aloft themselves before they went? I think he was referring to the fact that maybe the pilot turned on the light(or called for exit) when the GPS showed what he was looking for.....and maybe a waypoint was incorrectly entered....or the guy read the GPS wrong.....Look down before exiting? What a novel idea! Aren't YOU the one that criticized me for saying that NOBODY should exit before verifying the spot, or having somebody they trust(if they cannot see sufficiently to do it themselves, such as a late diver) verify it? IIRC, you said that the jumpers should trust somebody like yourself(an experienced jumper and jump pilot) to judge the spot and turn on the light when it's time to go.....follow the green light in blind faith, right? It'll never do you wrong......Regardless, I doubt it was a "GPS spot gone bad".....it was likely a decent spot, and with the winds blowing strong, somebody turned downwind and continued to run......but, then again, who knows - none of us were there..Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #17 December 26, 2001 I agree. Send cards.The best thing skydivers can do to support the family is to attend the funeral in large numbers wearing skydiving t-shirts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyhi 24 #18 December 26, 2001 QuoteGive me an idea on what I can do for this family.You're never wrong to express true sympathy and condolences after a tragic loss. Have seen everything at a time like that (food, flowers, shoveling snow, cutting grass, a hug, just talking) and if it comes from the heart, it is appreciated. He was a member of our family, and you are there for all of us. Although most of us never met him, he will be missed. flyhi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diverdriver 6 #19 December 27, 2001 Quote IIRC, you said that the jumpers should trust somebody like yourself(an experienced jumper and jump pilot) to judge the spot and turn on the light when it's time to go.....follow the green light in blind faith, right? It'll never do you wrong......Regardless, I doubt it was a "GPS spot gone bad".....it was likely a decent spot, and with the winds blowing strong, somebody turned downwind and continued to run......but, then again, who knows - none of us were there..Mike,Maybe my criticism was misplaced or I thought you were talking about something else.Maybe I can clearify. A jumper can misread the ground just as easily as a jump pilot can misread a GPS. It's choosing that exit point that is important and then making sure the aircraft goes over that point in a way that jumpers can exit there. Jumpers SHOULD look down for other aircraft and to see where they are. But if they don't know how to judge what is going on with the aircraft and winds aloft then they should get someone who does know to assist them. I believe that person CAN be the pilot if they have enough experience. I would even suggest that I have a better "Bird's Eye View" using the moving map than a jumper leaning out the door. I have information on ground speed and track (to judge the true wind direction and strength), and pinpoint accuaracy of my current position. I also have information on time to my exit point so I can judge when to turn on the green light. Knowing what the ground speed is can be very important in the spacing of exits. I can tell you right away what spacing should be instead of what I see some places doing of adjusting the spacing ONLY after the first load comes down. Jumpers SHOULD ask the pilot where the jump run starts and what to expect so they can clarify or modify what the pilot is going to do before departure.I feel there is a misconception among jumpers that the pilot can only track to one point over the ground using GPS. Using a moving map you can judge position using many different points. I have not "programmed" a waypoint in four years using my GPS. I spot jumprun as though I was actually looking out the door at the ground. That's the beauty of moving map GPS.I hope this will clearify some of my views on spotting and use of GPS. If not, feel free to email me. Chris SchindlerD-19012ATP/CFIIhttp://www.DiverDriver.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #20 December 27, 2001 You'll never convince me that looking at a GPS gives you an advantage over looking out the jump door. I certainly give major props to pilots that can consistantly give good spots from the pilot seat of an Otter. That's a skill that takes a long time and many jump runs/screw ups to perfect. But.....any jumper that has a descent amount of experience and has bothered to learn can pick their spot on the ground (provided they know the upper level and lower level wind) and can use the MK-1 eyeball to judge separation. I have waited much longer than "The Pilot" said to before because it just didn't look right. Only to find out that we had an unusually slow ground speed on that run becuase of the aircraft load or the winds were higher than expected. Mind you this is with a pilot that has 15 years or more experience flying jumpers. Nobody is perfect but I'll go with the view out the door any day!"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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Aviatrr 0 #16 December 26, 2001 Quote Ok, how the heck can you blame a friggin GPS? Was the door open? Did you look down? A GPS doesn't turn a light on or open a door. That communication street, my friends, goes two ways. Did the jumpers ask what the spot was before they exited or did they check the winds aloft themselves before they went? I think he was referring to the fact that maybe the pilot turned on the light(or called for exit) when the GPS showed what he was looking for.....and maybe a waypoint was incorrectly entered....or the guy read the GPS wrong.....Look down before exiting? What a novel idea! Aren't YOU the one that criticized me for saying that NOBODY should exit before verifying the spot, or having somebody they trust(if they cannot see sufficiently to do it themselves, such as a late diver) verify it? IIRC, you said that the jumpers should trust somebody like yourself(an experienced jumper and jump pilot) to judge the spot and turn on the light when it's time to go.....follow the green light in blind faith, right? It'll never do you wrong......Regardless, I doubt it was a "GPS spot gone bad".....it was likely a decent spot, and with the winds blowing strong, somebody turned downwind and continued to run......but, then again, who knows - none of us were there..Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #17 December 26, 2001 I agree. Send cards.The best thing skydivers can do to support the family is to attend the funeral in large numbers wearing skydiving t-shirts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyhi 24 #18 December 26, 2001 QuoteGive me an idea on what I can do for this family.You're never wrong to express true sympathy and condolences after a tragic loss. Have seen everything at a time like that (food, flowers, shoveling snow, cutting grass, a hug, just talking) and if it comes from the heart, it is appreciated. He was a member of our family, and you are there for all of us. Although most of us never met him, he will be missed. flyhi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 6 #19 December 27, 2001 Quote IIRC, you said that the jumpers should trust somebody like yourself(an experienced jumper and jump pilot) to judge the spot and turn on the light when it's time to go.....follow the green light in blind faith, right? It'll never do you wrong......Regardless, I doubt it was a "GPS spot gone bad".....it was likely a decent spot, and with the winds blowing strong, somebody turned downwind and continued to run......but, then again, who knows - none of us were there..Mike,Maybe my criticism was misplaced or I thought you were talking about something else.Maybe I can clearify. A jumper can misread the ground just as easily as a jump pilot can misread a GPS. It's choosing that exit point that is important and then making sure the aircraft goes over that point in a way that jumpers can exit there. Jumpers SHOULD look down for other aircraft and to see where they are. But if they don't know how to judge what is going on with the aircraft and winds aloft then they should get someone who does know to assist them. I believe that person CAN be the pilot if they have enough experience. I would even suggest that I have a better "Bird's Eye View" using the moving map than a jumper leaning out the door. I have information on ground speed and track (to judge the true wind direction and strength), and pinpoint accuaracy of my current position. I also have information on time to my exit point so I can judge when to turn on the green light. Knowing what the ground speed is can be very important in the spacing of exits. I can tell you right away what spacing should be instead of what I see some places doing of adjusting the spacing ONLY after the first load comes down. Jumpers SHOULD ask the pilot where the jump run starts and what to expect so they can clarify or modify what the pilot is going to do before departure.I feel there is a misconception among jumpers that the pilot can only track to one point over the ground using GPS. Using a moving map you can judge position using many different points. I have not "programmed" a waypoint in four years using my GPS. I spot jumprun as though I was actually looking out the door at the ground. That's the beauty of moving map GPS.I hope this will clearify some of my views on spotting and use of GPS. If not, feel free to email me. Chris SchindlerD-19012ATP/CFIIhttp://www.DiverDriver.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #20 December 27, 2001 You'll never convince me that looking at a GPS gives you an advantage over looking out the jump door. I certainly give major props to pilots that can consistantly give good spots from the pilot seat of an Otter. That's a skill that takes a long time and many jump runs/screw ups to perfect. But.....any jumper that has a descent amount of experience and has bothered to learn can pick their spot on the ground (provided they know the upper level and lower level wind) and can use the MK-1 eyeball to judge separation. I have waited much longer than "The Pilot" said to before because it just didn't look right. Only to find out that we had an unusually slow ground speed on that run becuase of the aircraft load or the winds were higher than expected. Mind you this is with a pilot that has 15 years or more experience flying jumpers. Nobody is perfect but I'll go with the view out the door any day!"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
