hop n pops = tandem qualified?

[NoName007 0]

Is it safe, or a good idea?

"hypothetically" (sp?)

a guy with a little over 400 jumps wants to be a tandem master.

This guy tries bustings out 80 skydives in one week to get 500 jumps and start training for his goal. All 80 jumps are exits at 2K, one right after another.
i'm looking in the SIM and it says that a C or D liscenced jumper must have container opening at minimum 2K.

This guy is rumored to refuse to sit down landings, and at a 2,600 above Sea level, with 100 degree + weather and no winds during the summer

This guy is also a terrible bellyflyer, or any freefall flyer at that (so i've heard from many jumpers)...he can stay stable on his belly and turn etc, but that's nearly it.

is it safe or smart to give this guy a tandem rating? Does doing 100 hop n pops qualify him to be a tandem dude? Does trying to stand up every landing make him safe to send students with?
He will get his tandem rating at this DZ he jumps. There are sport jumpers i know who would absolutely refuse to go as his passenger.

[billvon 2,997]

If he can pass the course - yes. Tandems require a different skill set than, say, freefly or RW.

[stratostar 5]

Couldn't be any worse then those I know who just signed their checkbooks to get one.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[NoName007 0]

i understand about passing the course except. The examiner he is using is also the DZO he has been known to skimp on some parts of the course so he CAN have tandem masters for his DZ. He puts them through for a cheap cheap price and has them work their cost off..making him more money.

[JohnMitchell 16]

I agree with Billvon. Flying skills, except for getting stable, are secondary to being EP savvy and gear check smart. I'm a very average flyer, but try to be a very conscientious TM. And I suck at head down.

You say the guy refuses sit down landings. You mean on his own canopy, right? Give him a few fast tandem landings and see if he still refuses. If he does surf on the students again and again, then, yes, I'd say he sucks.

[Squeak 17]

isnt there a minimum ammount of freefall time required?

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[dorbie 0]

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Does doing 100 hop n pops qualify him to be a tandem dude? Does trying to stand up every landing make him safe to send students with?

No having 500 jumps gives him ONE of the prerequisites for attempting to get qualified.

Is it safe to jump at your DZ with all the backbiting?

[eUrNiCc 0]

I'm going through the Strong tandem program right now and I just happen to have the manual sitting right next to my laptop. It says that the "FAA Requirements" are 1. Minimum three years of skydiving experience; 2. Minimum of 500 freefall jumps on ram air parachutes; and 3. USPA or FAI expert parachute license.
There is no mention of how much freefall time is required, only 500 freefall jumps. I assume this just means you can't log static line jumps since a hop & pop still involves some freefall?
What gets me is the requirement for 3 years in the sport. They don't go into any detail about what that means. Three years since you got your first license? If it means 3 years since your first jump, then someone who made a tandem a few years back could buy two rigs, go to Eloy and get on every load for a month and become a tandem master as soon as they reach 500.
A month ago I had less than three years in the sport (since my first jump) and 1500 jumps & it would've been illegal for me to do a tandem...

Egad, A BASE life defiles a bad age.

[dragon2 2]

Over here, it´s 3yrs from the day you did your FJC I think, as your SL or AFF license has that date on it. But here it´s also 5hrs of freefall and 1000 freefall (non/SL) jumps minimum, not that easy to get 1000 jumps in 3 yrs here anyway, weather-wise.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[tombuch 0]

It sounds like you have some legitimate concerns about the overall experience and judgment of this person, and his ability to be a safe tandem instructor.

Some others have already noted that the tandem skill set does not require exceptional belly or freefly skills, but I believe it does require significant freefall experience and awareness, and of course it requires highly developed judgment.

Unfortunately, the standards are only as good as the examiners issuing the ratings. I guess we can bitch about it, but we can't really do anything more than that. And in this case, you point out, the examiner has a vested financial interest in getting him a rating so he can shovel students out the door. Obviously the tandem instructors need solid judgment, but so do the examiners.

I think the only real recourse you have is to contact the manufacturer of the rig directly and express your concern. That might get some extra eyeballs on the operation, but it won't change the reality of the examination process.

Sorry.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[jheadley 0]

Doesn't the strong rating require 4 hours of freefall time? That is a prerequisite I see on skydiveratings.com

[NoName007 0]

Quote

You say the guy refuses sit down landings. You mean on his own canopy, right? Give him a few fast tandem landings and see if he still refuses. If he does surf on the students again and again, then, yes, I'd say he sucks.

he has gone as passenger for other going through tandem adn refused to slide in when told to do so as a student. it's hard to run wtih 4 legs in a place where you come screaming in.

i guess i shouldn't worry too much, it's not my DZ. it has a reputation for being unsafe, and i just hate to see someone get hurt when it could have been prevented.

[BillyVance 34]

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i understand about passing the course except. The examiner he is using is also the DZO he has been known to skimp on some parts of the course so he CAN have tandem masters for his DZ. He puts them through for a cheap cheap price and has them work their cost off..making him more money.

I know of a DZ that has done this in the past. Who knows if they're still doing it. But this DZ took a 100 jump wonder and turned him into a tandem master with fraudulent records. I've always referred my friends to the other DZs in the area.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[jdthomas 0]

There are so many loop holes thru the ssytem that it is sad..
this case sounds like a similar case that i know of.. and the crazy part is the years in sport..
The now TM that I know made a jump (single jump) many years ago and then came back years later, is now what i consider two years in the sport (after achieveing your A card or getting off the student status as a general guide) and got his TM rating.. he did not even have an i card yet but was quickly pushed thru a course to make it all legit..
that young jumpers attitude has already bit him a few weeks back but he may not have learned his lesson and it does not have to be this way.
Some manufactuers should rething thier requirments for TM canidates.
Joe

www.greenboxphotography.com

[airtwardo 7]

and the crazy part is the years in sport..

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It's an easy, 'back door' way of saying they want a TM to be 'reasonably' mature.

You are supposed to be 18 when ya start (at the youngest) add 3 and you're 21...old enough to drink AND sling meat!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

• Quote

[matthewcline 0]

For some reason the great porno rif came to mind when I read that!

"mow chick a mow mow"

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[airtwardo 7]

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[JohnMitchell 16]

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You are supposed to be 18 when ya start (at the youngest) add 3 and you're 21...old enough to drink AND sling meat!

I was 17 for my first jump. And lots of kids start at 16 or younger.

[JohnMitchell 16]

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There are so many loop holes thru the ssytem that it is sad..

Log books are soooo easy to cook up, to fake a bunch of jumps. I suspect a few jumpers have done just that, and I'm positive about one in particular, a TM in another state. Wish I had the answer, but I don't .

My jumps are all real, and I got the scars to prove 'em.

[riggerrob 643]

he has gone as passenger for other going through tandem and refused to slide in when told to do so as a student. it's hard to run with 4 legs in a place where you come screaming in.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Some one that arrogant/clue-less does not deserve a tandem rating.

[brianfry713 0]

You need a foreign master parachute license or USPA D license to do tandems in the US. To get a USPA D license you're supposed to have 3 hours of freefall time, among other things.

I've been told by several tandem course directors that doing 1 jump 3 years ago would count for the TI requirement.

To get a UPT/RWS or USPA rating, you also need at least a USPA Coach rating or foreign equivalent. You also have to be at least 18.