Jessica 0 #101 November 16, 2001 QuoteWhy is it people will protect the first ammendment but wont protect the 2nd...very very interesting....*choking on crappy coffee that I'm drinking to stay awake during shitty night shift at newspaper*Oh my GOSH that is SUCH BS!!! Merely QUESTION private gun ownership, and you get something like this thread. People are on such a hair trigger (heh) about this subject! Threaten free speech...right to privacy...things like that...and the masses are eerily silent. Especially, I hate but have to say, after Sept. 11.Skymedic, I find your statement to be fallacious.(Fallacious is my new favorite word.) Alex wants to see you bleed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #102 November 16, 2001 Hey I am one of the first to say that I am very very afraid of what our country will do to ALL of our constitutionaly guaranteed rights in the name of "saftey" and I do not think my statement is untrue in any way.....now go take your nasty coffee and gag some more...MarcBecause I fly, I envy no man on earth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #103 November 16, 2001 Quote Skymedic, I find your statement to be fallacious.(Fallacious is my new favorite word.) Jeez, Jess....you're such a perv.. Take a perfectly normal thread like gun control, and turn it into a sexual thing.. I swear.. Get your mind out of the gutter...Oh, wait a second.....nevermind, you said fallacious.. I thought you said fellatio.. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #104 November 16, 2001 I was gonna go that way...but didn't wanna offend her THAT much...but then again...since she is so good with words....maybe shes good with her mouth too...MarcBecause I fly, I envy no man on earth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #105 November 16, 2001 Quote I was gonna go that way...but didn't wanna offend her THAT much...but then again...since she is so good with words....maybe shes good with her mouth too... Offend Jessica? I don't think that's possible.. Hey, Jess.....I'll be out there in Texas in a few weeks.....where did you say you lived, again? Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #106 November 16, 2001 I told her I'd rassle her...she turned me down I guess....MarcBecause I fly, I envy no man on earth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessica 0 #107 November 16, 2001 QuoteI was gonna go that way...but didn't wanna offend her THAT much...but then again...since she is so good with words....maybe shes good with her mouth too...Honey...I can't believe you even have to speculate.QuoteOffend Jessica? I don't think that's possible...It's difficult...but very dangerous, if achieved.QuoteHey, Jess.....I'll be out there in Texas in a few weeks.....where did you say you lived, again?San Antonio, and dz.commers have an open invitation. Especially YOU. Alex wants to see you bleed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #108 November 16, 2001 Mnischalke, You are correct, I am headed to OCS this summer for a 10-week, then I'll be commissioned upon gradutation! I'm freak'n Mody!AggieDave '02-------------Blue Skies and Gig'em Ags!BTHO t.u. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #109 November 16, 2001 watch out down there Dave, my brother is there...he is a DI......and just wait till I tell him you jump outa airoplanes...MarcBecause I fly, I envy no man on earth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingMarc 0 #110 November 16, 2001 Dave-I'm from Springfield but I'm actually going to school at the U. of Illinois in Champaign...MarcP.S. GO ILLINI!!! P.P.S. This whole debate makes me think one thing... it's almost time to skydive... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #111 November 16, 2001 Quote(and send my girlfriend to martial arts training) Umm....so why don't you send me to martial arts training?! I would love that!!Your ears look cold. Can I warm them with my thighs? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JDBoston 0 #112 November 16, 2001 Just some objective thoughts on the whole idea that we are headed for a police state where citizens' rights get trampled....- We are still holding open elections for public officials last I checked- The government agencies usually can't even perform their stated functions well, let alone effectively spy on or harass or repress its citizens - when was the last time you walked out of the DMV or the parking office or talked to the IRS or something and said, "Wow! What a high-tech place! What a bunch of smart, competent people!" .....Nothing personal against people in government jobs, this is just a broad generalization based on my experience......- If you want to learn what a real police state looks like (Communist Russia 1920-1960) and how it comes to be, block off about a month and read The Gulag Archipelago by Solzhenitsyn. We're still a long ways off.HOWEVER.... if you want a little itty bitty taste of what a police state might feel like, read this quote from Ari Fleischer (Bush's spokesman) in response to what Bill Maher said about bombing being cowardly and not hijacking. He said "they're reminders to all Americans that they need to watch what they say, watch what they do. This is not a time for remarks like that; there never is." Now what the F*CK is that? I don't agree with Maher, but Fleischer's version of things isn't what I signed up for either. That, and the fact that we can (and do) detain people pretty much indefinitely without evidence.... I'm all for safety and security, but repression of free speech and the practice of holding large numbers of people incommunicado without presenting any evidence are two things everyone should be keeping a careful eye on.Back to the reason for the thread, the whole gun issue, I think citizens should be allowed to have guns but only if their backgrounds are clean of major crimes and if they get some kind of training. I don't know enough about the current laws to have an intelligent opinion on them, nor, obviously, do I own guns. I think it's reasonable to own them for recreation and self defense. But I DON'T think you'll ever need them to defend yourself against the government, unless you plan on purchasing helicopters, dogs, thousands of trained soldiers, snipers, explosives, and tear gas as well.Basically, if the government wants to get its hands on you or even kill you, it pretty much will. And that's the way it SHOULD be in ANY country. The key thing is to make sure the government is made up of ethical, rational officials, and that its policies are humane and democratic. Then we'll have a more humane and democratic society and the crime rate will go down, and fewer people (though there will always be some) will be out there trying to rape/rob/kill you. So if you're concerned about the state of the state, or crime, go vote or do some volunteer work. Gun ownership isn't necessarily a problem, but it's not the solution to anything either.That's my two cents.Joe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #113 November 16, 2001 "The key thing is to make sure the government is made up of ethical, rational officials, and that its policies are humane and democratic"Where is that? I wanna move there!"But I DON'T think you'll ever need them to defend yourself against the government, unless you plan on purchasing helicopters, dogs, thousands of trained soldiers, snipers, explosives, and tear gas as well."Uh oh!!!!!Que hermana pinocha gratis?-Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JDBoston 0 #114 November 16, 2001 No shit, I think there's a real long way to go too. Joe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingnut 0 #115 November 16, 2001 okay i'm staying out of this debate(icouldn't stay afloat on this subject to save my life) but..... what would happen if they took our guns?.... every one agree it would be a sad sight...because there would be no more hotties in the gun mags holding some spiffy rifles and all dressed up in diffrent shooting atire(normally very tight fitting too).. yes.... lets kep the guns so we can keep the girls!!!!!!! woooo hooooooooo now where is my arsenal at... oh wait i have yet to buy it......... right after i get that brand new rig................."up my noooossseee"- wingnut, at first euro dz.com boogie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #116 November 16, 2001 <>Jeeze, I never saw that part of the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution. Where was that again? I am not saying that criminals should own guns. As a matter of fact, I think criminals should be in jail. I doubt I am stretching on that.mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmsmith 1 #117 November 16, 2001 >Here's a quick bit of data to ponder on while >you come up with a very researched bit of info.......>A firearm was reported to have been involved in the >deaths of 1107 children; 957 (86%) of those occurred >in the United States. Of all firearm-related deaths, >55% were reported as homicides; 20%, as suicides; >22%, as unintentional; and 3%, as intention >undetermined. The overall firearm-related death rate >among U.S. children aged less than 15 years was >nearly 12 times higher than among children in the >other 25 countries combined (1.66 compared with >0.14) source: Center for Desease Control.You need to be very careful regarding rankings when you are "fed" statistics. The 1107 incidents above are for people aged 18-yrs or less. Therefore, that number would include the inner-city gang youth, which account for the high number of these incidents. The above paragraph shouldn't really be a paragraph; read each sentence separately as the rankings differ for each (a technique of the persuasive writer when using statistics surreptitiously).I find it awkward when the same agency ranks women aged 13 -> 18-yrs as young women when the issue is unwed childbirth.Sincerely,Richard M. Smith(509) 754-1126rmsmith@pobox.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keith 0 #118 November 16, 2001 Richard said:You need to be very careful regarding rankings when you are "fed" statistics. The 1107 incidents above are for people aged 18-yrs or less. Therefore, that number would include the inner-city gang youth, which account for the high number of these incidents.Keith questioned:Why should the shooting deaths of inner-city gang youth not be counted? They are just as young and just as dead!Keith Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #119 November 16, 2001 "They are just as young and just as dead!"I'm failing to see the down side of dead gang members? I wasn't an angel when I was a teenager but I never shot anybody either.........Que hermana pinocha gratis?-Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #120 November 16, 2001 after getting shot at multiple times by these little fuckers I have no regard for them as they had no regard for my life....and then after they shoot at me they want me to fix em...fucken thankless little peices of shit....MarcBecause I fly, I envy no man on earth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keith 0 #121 November 16, 2001 skymedic said:after getting shot at multiple times by these little fuckers I have no regard for them as they had no regard for my life....and then after they shoot at me they want me to fix em...fucken thankless little peices of shit....Keith responded:It's a vicious circle isn't it. Yep we sure need more guns in this country. A gun in eeeevery pocket I say. Black's didn't start racial violence in this country and they sure as hell didn't invent gangs either. Us good ole white folks did all that. Keith Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bill2 0 #122 November 16, 2001 Keith, it's not that that inner city youths should not be counted, it's that when anti-gun folks quote statistics they want you to think that all of these gun deaths occurred when sweet innocent school children were gunned down. But the reality is that many of these deaths come from gang bangers getting shot by police or fellow gang member. However, the general public is much more horrified when a small child is shot than a gang member. Which is exactly what the anti gun folks want you to think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keith 0 #123 November 16, 2001 I think a dead kid no matter how they got killed is a sad situation. You know Bill, what really chaps my hide is that society is more concerned with the outcome than the cause. At some point we as a so called civilized society have to take a good look at the reasons these kids are doing what they're doing and do something about it. If you don't pay any attention to your gas gauge in your car and you run out of gas, do you blame it on the gas tank, fill it up and keep doing the same thing? No, you start paying attention to the gauge so you don't run out again. These kids are on empty and there is a reason for it.Keith Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmsmith 1 #124 November 16, 2001 >I think a dead kid no matter how they got killed is a >sad situation. You know Bill, what really chaps my >hide is that society is more concerned with the >outcome than the cause.I think that below the surface, most people are keenly aware of the roots of today's violence, but its identification and solution are not politically correct. Thus, we continue to address the symptoms, i.e., denounce clothing, drugs, guns, knives, music, etc., the result being "a net loss of freedom" while the root problem persists. However, you have piqued my curiosity regarding "causation" of youth violence. Could you please share your thoughts with us? Thank you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cameramonkey 0 #125 November 16, 2001 Quoteplease show us how implementing more access to guns and allowing people to carry guns has brough down gun related crime levels lower then places that have strict gun control laws.ask a criminal what he fears..... its an armed victim. you ban our rights to carry, and the criminals love it. they know we are unarmed and can run amok...Interesting story... small town in TX(or was it OK?). city ordinance says male citizens MUST own, and are allowed(maybe even "required") to carry OPENLY handguns(felons excluded of course). the violent crime rate is almost nonexistent... sorry to list the cliche', but " if we outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns"for me... gun control is using both hands :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
