Navigator 200 to Sabre 170?

[drenkel 0]

Just got my A license, I'm 150 Lbs, 175 Exit weight.

I've went down all the student rigs, and have been jumping the Navigator 200 the last 12 or so jumps. Landing nicely, no issues.

I just purchased my first rig, which contains a Sabre 170.

I guess my question is, how drastic of a step down is this? Would it be considered reckless to go from a 200 Navigator to a 170 Sabre with nothing inbetween?

Thanks!

[mcordell 2]

Sabre? Or sabre 2? Huge difference in those canopies. Aside from the fact downsizing advise is best given by local instructors that know you and not on the internet, I believe the novice wingloading on f111 canopies typically shouldn't exceed 1:1

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[drenkel 0]

Original Sabre 1. I have asked around at the DZ and I am getting conflicting opinions. Some have said to try a 190 for a few jumps first, and others have said I should be fine going straight to the 170. 

So I decided to post here and maybe get some first hand knowledge from someone who has dealt with this issue.

[gowlerk 2,192]

For some people it would be quite reasonable with good coaching and care. For others it may be too big a step at once. Different instructors will have different opinions in anything like this. Of course this information is not at all helpful to you. The best advice for you to take is to follow the opinion of the most senior instructor at your DZ. Even if you already know the answer will not be what you want to hear. Which is often the case when this kind of question gets asked here.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[JeffCa 0]

drenkel

Some have said to try a 190 for a few jumps first...

I don't know anything about the question, but really, would it hurt to do this? Why not use the 190 for a few jumps? Your new canopy won't leave you for cheating on it.

"So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

[Quagmirian 40]

It won't hurt to try a 190 for a while.

[drenkel 0]

That actually was very helpful. I know exactly who to bring this to. Thanks gowlerk.

[mcordell 2]

even if that's too big a step right now, that just gives you a reason to buy another used canopy and keep the sabre until you are ready for it. You can't have too much gear. I have 2 rigs and a couple extra canopies and I would love to have more. Don't be in to big a hurry to downsize. I know that's the trend and a lot of people downsize as quickly as they can but I like having a canopy that's more forgiving if I make a mistake. I grew up around the old school way of thinking and would rather have more nylon over my head than less.

www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

[stayhigh 2]

No one knows how capable you are thru the dz.com

So no one will be able to give you right answer.

I've always skipped two or three sizes.

I've seen people downsize ridiculously fast and they did well.
I've seen some people downsize one step by one step and hook themselves in.

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[ridebmxbikes 0]

Nice choice! I love sabre's! just remember any time you downsize or switch canopies just remember to do some hop & pops away from traffic and do some canopy drills. You're gonna have a lot of fun on that canopy!

[skyjumpenfool 2]

drenkel

. Some have said to try a 190 for a few jumps first,  

IMHO... Sounds like you got an answer you didn't like and came here shopping for a different answer? My only advice to you is to error on the side of safety when it comes to downsizing.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[JeffCa 0]

skyjumpenfool

*** . Some have said to try a 190 for a few jumps first,  

IMHO... Sounds like you got an answer you didn't like and came here shopping for a different answer? My only advice to you is to error on the side of safety when it comes to downsizing.
Yeah, that is what it sounds like. This question didn't need to be asked, the thread didn't need to exist. Is there any reason (besides a little money) to NOT try the 190 first? The OP seems to be looking for validation of his desire to go straight to his own canopy, which was bought prematurely. FFS, try the 190!

"So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

[stayhigh 2]

I'd say just jump that sabre 170. Not really a aggressive canopy and not really a aggressive wingloading. Than again, no one here has seen your landing. I went from Navigator 220 to Safire 189, and I was horrible canopy pilot. I just ate shit couple times but I thought getting dirty was part of skydiving.

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[riggerrob 643]

Before down-sizing you should demonstrate competence on your current canopy. See Bill's list of canopy exercises. Once you have convinced local instructors that you are competent on your current canopy, you should ask their advice about down-sizing. If you have any doubts, make enough jumps on a 190 before down-sizing to the 170.
If you get bored under the 190, you are not working hard enough on Bill Von's exercises.

[shift 0]

Go 190 first. Downsizing too fast will hinder your progression, especially if you hurt yourself. I dont think you'll find many people saying "I wish I downsized sooner"...

[drenkel 0]

Figured I should post an update incase any other newbies come across this thread.

So I decided to err on the side of caution and wait to jump a 190 first, but could not find one that wasn't elliptical. After waiting at the DZ all day long I decided to take mine up on the last load.

I was nervous, as winds were only 3-4 mph which is something I've been having a little problem with. Anyway, I pulled about 10 and just practiced the flare about 10 times. I made hard turns and brake turns and checked my altitude loss. Just used all that time to get familiar with the new canopy.

Landed like a dream. 2 stage flared, it leveled off and I trailed the ground a little, then when the speed slowed I fully dug in and landed very softly.

Gotta say I was worried about nothing. Yeah its quite a bit faster, and the turns are lots more aggressive than the student rigs. But it's actually easier to control. I come down right out of a turn without delay and it flares for days.

Anyway that was my experience. Mileage may vary. But I wanted to share incase anyone else in my situation came across the thread.

Cheers & Blue Skys

[rogerpidactor 0]

Studying on a similar problem for myself, albeit trying to decide pulse 230 or sabre2 230. I'm 240 out the door. Everyone has an opinion. Although I am too new to understand I guess, my DZO says no to the sabre2 and a big giant yes to the pulse. I may not understand fully but the guy has 7000 jumps...I'm going with the DZO's advice. I willing to be the has forgot more than I know about canopy selection..

Edited for pulse 230 not storm 230.

[shift 0]

Glad everything went well! Going to a 190 for a few jumps would have been ideal, since you just got your A license, but going elliptical would not be. Your exit weight puts you just over 1:1 wingloading, which isn't too crazy for a beginner.

Good call pulling high and practicing your flare. Hope you enjoy your new rig!

[shift 0]

Sounds odd to me. Sabre 2's are fairly common as a beginner canopy I believe, but I've never actually seen anyone with a pulse. My DZO highly recommended a Silhouette when I starting, I went with a Storm and he was OK with it.

But youre right. With 7k jumps he might know something you dont. Also, hes the DZO...

[rjblake 1]

rogerpidactor

Studying on a similar problem for myself, albeit trying to decide pulse 230 or sabre2 230. I'm 240 out the door. Everyone has an opinion. Although I am too new to understand I guess, my DZO says no to the sabre2 and a big giant yes to the pulse. I may not understand fully but the guy has 7000 jumps...I'm going with the DZO's advice. I willing to be the has forgot more than I know about canopy selection..

Edited for pulse 230 not storm 230.

I may have missed the boat on this one; bu was facing a very similar dilemma. Pulse or Sabre 2. In the end, after reading all I could find; I decided I'd go with a Pulse 210. I've been jumping a Navigator, Solo's and ZP EXE's - all rentals in various condition. The one bit that worried me from the common thread was the flare. Top it off with the fact my first jump would be in a nil wind condition. Not a breath. Oh well, what could go wrong...

Opened as high as DZ would allow me (4k due to traffic) and did some practice flares and drills. Flare seemed okay to me. On final, flared it like one of the loaners and soon found it that it had plenty of flare - even got lift and hopped up some. Didn't stall it or need to PLF, but landed nicely. I'm still trying to work out the sweet spot, but I'll get my brain dialed in for various conditions eventually (seems I'm either flaring too high, or too low mostly). It certainly opens better than the Solo or ZP - all have been on heading bar one pilot induced harness turn due to my body position. It packs small, and will allow me to downsize in the same container to a Sabre2 170 (possibly even 150 - although I doubt I will) if I get the urge. Screw the resale - I'm keeping this one for myself even if I do downsize. I'm confident I can rely on it for consistent performance on opening and landing.