stayhigh 2 #2 August 25, 2014 Breaks, Slider, and Cocking your PC is the jumpers responsibility. and stretch em out if possible or stack it on top of wherever your packing slave wants them to be. All of those can be ignored with the fat tip. I've packed for a guy who refused to do anything, and comes back with constant step or flip thru. But the 10 dollar pack job plus the 25% tip at the end of the day made it worth while to pack. He was the first to go home after sunset load every single time.Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #3 August 25, 2014 listens to crappy musicYou can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fog52 58 #4 August 25, 2014 Is sloppy because he thinks he's the fastest packer in the world, won't listen to your requests for tempermental canopy. He's 17, started when he was 14 and has an ego the size of Texas. last opening he packed for me a riser cut my nose open on a camera jump. I don't know why I didn't lose a lens or my neck. He didn't understand what the problem was.Magna res est vocis et silentii temperamentum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NowAndLater 0 #5 August 25, 2014 Assuming by your poll options you're speaking from the standpoint of the jumper and not the DZO... Brakes, slider, pilot chute, rig maintenance, and placement (stretch out or a clean pile) are our responsibility. His music, whatever the choice, is his motivation. A hard opening is only 10% of the pack job. Gear checks should be done which would cover stowage, pin checks keep track of closing loops. Interestingly enough, a line over is not on your list. That would be the only reason I could think of to fire a packer. From my understanding, he would be fired from most DZ's anyways. A few months back there was a rigger who packed a ladies reserve and then her main. He was in the hanger the next morning with a grin from ear to ear raving about how she was going to have a cutaway "because I packed her main right after her reserve, just watch." Sure as hell, line twists smashed her chin into her tits and she cut away. When she landed he was still in the hangar. "I cant jump anymore today I gotta go make that money" was the first thing he said, at the same time laughing hysterically. That is a jackass I wouldn't hesitate to fire. If she only knew....Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ronhend 0 #6 August 25, 2014 "A few months back there was a rigger who packed a ladies reserve and then her main. He was in the hanger the next morning with a grin from ear to ear raving about how she was going to have a cutaway "because I packed her main right after her reserve, just watch." Sure as hell, line twists smashed her chin into her tits and she cut away. When she landed he was still in the hangar. "I cant jump anymore today I gotta go make that money" was the first thing he said, at the same time laughing hysterically. That is a jackass I wouldn't hesitate to fire. If she only knew.... " If he did this to me or someone I know, getting fired would be the least of his worries....Unbelievable how stupid he is.Ron ATP B-727 B767-757 CFI-II Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doug_Davis 0 #7 August 25, 2014 stayhigh Breaks, Slider, and Cocking your PC is the jumpers responsibility. and stretch em out if possible or stack it on top of wherever your packing slave wants them to be. All of those can be ignored with the fat tip. I've packed for a guy who refused to do anything, and comes back with constant step or flip thru. But the 10 dollar pack job plus the 25% tip at the end of the day made it worth while to pack. He was the first to go home after sunset load every single time. Considering you quarter your slider after flaking how is that the jumper's responsibility? Or do you just mean reattaching a removable one? Im also curious how the PC would also the jumper's responsibility. I always cock mine after flaking and getting canopy back on the ground. Do you do it before flaking? Just curious. NowAndLater If she only knew.... Why didnt you tell her?!? Or the DZO? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #8 August 25, 2014 Reason I'd fire a packer? Attitude. Human beings make mistakes. Throwing a wad of fabric and lines at the air at 120 MPH introduces some elements of chaos. If the same mistake gets made again after we've talked about it, then I'd likely fire the packer. If the packer throws me attitude after I point out* a mistake, then I'd likely fire the packer. A special sub-category would apply to team training - when we're doing team training, we make arrangements with packers ahead of time to take care of the team for that day, with the understanding that if (and only if) they have down time and all our rigs are ready to go, they can pick up other jobs. If the packer(s) have committed to prioritizing the team's pack jobs and then don't prioritize those pack jobs over others, we'd have a discussion about that, because our day's schedule is planned assuming timely access to packed rigs. Like other issues, repeat offenses would probably lead to firing. I take care of my packers - I bring my gear to them ready to pack, I pay in a timely fashion, and I tip well and consistently. I don't expect them to kiss my ass because of that, but I also don't expect attitude if I'm fair in the way I bring up issues. *Edited to add that how you point out a mistake matters. My approach is always to be proactive and positive, not throwing blame, just saying "Hey, this is how it should be done on this rig" or something like that. Or if I have a really funky opening, I might mention it and ask "Did you do anything different on that pack job?" And approaching it that way, I've never had any issues - we've had productive, friendly discussions."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #9 August 25, 2014 ... A few months back there was a rigger who packed a ladies reserve and then her main. He was in the hanger the next morning with a grin from ear to ear raving about how she was going to have a cutaway "because I packed her main right after her reserve, just watch." Sure as hell, line twists smashed her chin into her tits and she cut away. When she landed he was still in the hangar. "I cant jump anymore today I gotta go make that money" was the first thing he said, at the same time laughing hysterically. That is a jackass I wouldn't hesitate to fire. If she only knew.... ................................................................................. That rigger was unprofessional. It is bad karma to joke about that subject. For that reason, Perris riggers learned to distance themselves from that sort of dark humour. Part of their logic involved a legal defence of spreading the guilt between a rigger and a packer and the user. Part of it was getting tired of vacuuming all the sand, grass, twigs, thorns, etc. off the loft carpet a dozen times a day. Part of it was specialization and admitting that the in-documented immigrant packers were far quicker and far more profitable at packing mains. The final motivation was a clueless customer who stormed back to the loft angrily demanding to know why a load- organizer denied her boarding the plane just because he could not see her pilot-chute handle! The rigger on duty pulled out her invoice to prove that she had not paid for a main pack job. The excuse - for her confusion - was that the rigger had rigger-rolled it too neatly! Hah! Hah! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NowAndLater 0 #10 August 25, 2014 Doug_Davis ***Breaks, Slider, and Cocking your PC is the jumpers responsibility. and stretch em out if possible or stack it on top of wherever your packing slave wants them to be. All of those can be ignored with the fat tip. I've packed for a guy who refused to do anything, and comes back with constant step or flip thru. But the 10 dollar pack job plus the 25% tip at the end of the day made it worth while to pack. He was the first to go home after sunset load every single time. Considering you quarter your slider after flaking how is that the jumper's responsibility? Or do you just mean reattaching a removable one? Im also curious how the PC would also the jumper's responsibility. I always cock mine after flaking and getting canopy back on the ground. Do you do it before flaking? Just curious. NowAndLater If she only knew.... Why didnt you tell her?!? Or the DZO?I was talking about de collapsing the slider, not quartering it. The parachute is useless without a cocked PC so I've always figured it should be the first habit created when packing. That being said, I don't pack.... But I do these things out of kindness so the packer has more opportunity to get work. Why I didn't tell her or the DZO.... ignorance? I'm still pretty new to the sport, was new to the dz, new to the people. I didn't know how to react really. However, judging by the reactions of all the other packers, I figured something would happen... a couple months later he was gone. No idea if it had to do with that or not but he's not our problem anymore. :)Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #11 August 25, 2014 1. I pack my own. 2. If it mals blame here. 3. I charge to sniff it. 4. I charge more to touch it. 5. If you wanna pack it.. talk with the bank.CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3mpire 0 #12 August 25, 2014 how is "Demands too many reach-arounds while packing" not running away in this poll... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiggerLee 61 #13 August 26, 2014 This is going to terrify and anger yuppie skydivers from one side of the country to the other, but I feel an attack of honesty coming on and you all know how bad it can get when that happens. Are you people stupid? Do you honestly think that you're packer cares about an thing but the Benjamin's? You demand that he does five min. pack jobs all day long in an un air-conditioned 120 deg. hanger from seven in the morning till past ten o'clock at night with no time for lunch or rest. And you honestly think he has time or energy to care about any thing other then stuffing nylon in bags as fast as he can. He's not doing shit but cram, cram, cram. And you have no right to expect any more from him under the circumstances. Any thing else that he tells you is just a lie to placate you. It's cram, cram, cram, pin it and your done. Hard opening? line twist? is the malfunction rate over 1 in 10... shut up. If you feel the need for any more attention then that then you need to be packing for your self. If you drop your rig off in a huge pile along with twenty others at a boogie and yell over your shoulder that you need it on a twenty then you get what you get. And remember... Your Packer Secretly Hates You! LeeLee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #14 August 26, 2014 stayhigh Breaks, Slider, and Cocking your PC is the jumpers responsibility. How can I say this politely? How about "BULLSHIT"! I like to pack for myself when I can. But when I do Pay a "professional", I expect them to do it right. I always try to stow my brakes, cock the PC and lay it out neatly. But, I expect my packer to check that it's right. I've found that most packers take great pride in their work. I would like to know how much to tip? If my packer charges $5, I usually pay $6. I'm always worried that's not enough? Just because I'm a cheap bastard doesn't mean I want to piss off my packer..... Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #15 August 26, 2014 Right. 100% of the time, I've check the break stows, it is hard to pack with slider collapsed, and also it is just weird to pack collapsed PC. So I checked them all and if it is not done properly I would do it myself and bitch at the jumpers. All of those adds time. I wanna pack 5 rigs every 20 min. If I have to set the breaks, undo slider, cock the pilot chute on all of them there is no way I can do 5 in 20. I'll be able to do only 4 in 20. So therefore if you don't do those simple things, you are costing ME money. But rules are different from dz to dz. At least where I used to pack, You follow my rules or you don't get packed. Plain and simple. You don't do what I say, your rig will just sit there. That comes from having so many people to pack for so therefore I became a PackingNazi, just like SoupNazi from Seinfeld. One of the most fun job that I've ever had for the first 4 years, and after that it got old. I started to complain way too much. DZO told me to find something else to do. So I started to unpack parachutes instead of packing them for a living. and the RiggerLee is spot on. None of the packer will change how they pack. How they pack is, how they make the pack job within that time. If they change one thing it will put them out of synch and just doesn't work. If you tell them to not to roll the nose the packer will say yes, and do their way, if you tell them to wrap the tail so many times, they will say yes and they will do it their way. Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voilsb 1 #16 August 26, 2014 stayhighBreaks, Slider, and Cocking your PC is the jumpers responsibilityThis is why I don't hire a packer. By the time I deal with my brakes, slider, and pilot chute, I've already done 2/3 of the work. All that's left is bagging my canopy and closing the container, which only takes a few minutes.Brian Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mcordell 2 #17 August 26, 2014 I guess I have trust issues because I would never let someone pack for me. If my life depends on something, I feel like I should be responsible for it.www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dqpacker 7 #18 August 26, 2014 mcordellI guess I have trust issues because I would never let someone pack for me. If my life depends on something, I feel like I should be responsible for it. do you pack your own reserve? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #19 August 26, 2014 That's you, and you can't afford it because you are poor. Some people actually makes tons of money. Some of these people would not want to sweat one bit slaving over a pack job. Some of these people are doctors, lawyers, and trust fund babies who makes fucking grips of money. Some people pay for it because the work is simply too hard for them. Changing oil in your car is super easy right? How many people let others do the work? How many people don't even rotate their own tires? That's super easy work.Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arvoitus 1 #20 August 26, 2014 NowAndLater A few months back there was a rigger who packed a ladies reserve and then her main. He was in the hanger the next morning with a grin from ear to ear raving about how she was going to have a cutaway "because I packed her main right after her reserve, just watch." Sure as hell, line twists smashed her chin into her tits and she cut away. When she landed he was still in the hangar. "I cant jump anymore today I gotta go make that money" was the first thing he said, at the same time laughing hysterically. That is a jackass I wouldn't hesitate to fire. If she only knew.... Great example why you should never use a packer.Your rights end where my feelings begin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ctrph8 0 #21 August 26, 2014 Years ago I was a packer. Because of a back injury, packing takes more work than it used to. Now I use a packer on about 1/3 of my jumps. All of the packers I know really want to do a good job and check in every once in a while. "How was that?" "Did that open OK?" Bad attitude is a firing offense for me. I can handle an honest mistake. I might even handle it twice if they were open to learning. If my packer was off of their meds that day and gets bitchy, I'd probably find another one. I also tip well for extra effort. My usual packer threw it in overdrive and got my rig done on short notice last weekend. I made sure she knew that I appreciated that. Tip your packers for good work. Treat them nicely and don't put up with bad behavior. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mcordell 2 #22 August 26, 2014 dqpacker***I guess I have trust issues because I would never let someone pack for me. If my life depends on something, I feel like I should be responsible for it. do you pack your own reserve? Yep. Been doing it under rigger supervision for a while and headed to an 8 day rigger course in January to get my ticket. I feel much better about my reserve after doing it myself and seeing how it all goes together.www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ollieeeeeeeee 0 #23 August 27, 2014 Right around the time I learned to pack my own gear, I got my first rig. 10 jumps with a canopy with dacron lines, after which I bought a used canopy with microlines. Since I had large rubber bands on my D-bag from my previous canopy I used double-stows. Openings were decent, about as good as you can expect from a beginning packer. One day I was a bit lazy, and had one of the packers pack it for me. Apparently the guy didn't use double stows.. Line-dump => heard a loud bang => saw stars.. Landed, could barely stand, had huge black bruises on my legs, and had a headache for 1 1/2 weeks (probably wiplash). Since this happened I ALWAYS packed my gear myself.. TL;DR: Large rubber bands, microlines. Packer didn't use double stows => linedump => bad times. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kontiki 0 #24 August 28, 2014 I had something similar Ollieeeeee. I pitched and had enough time to think "holy fuck, it's not opening" and the next thing it was all stop with 3-4 line twists. That one hurt and it was the last time I let anyone pack for me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtiflyer 0 #25 August 28, 2014 Ollieeeeeeeee Right around the time I learned to pack my own gear, I got my first rig. 10 jumps with a canopy with dacron lines, after which I bought a used canopy with microlines. Since I had large rubber bands on my D-bag from my previous canopy I used double-stows. Openings were decent, about as good as you can expect from a beginning packer. One day I was a bit lazy, and had one of the packers pack it for me. Apparently the guy didn't use double stows.. Line-dump => heard a loud bang => saw stars.. Landed, could barely stand, had huge black bruises on my legs, and had a headache for 1 1/2 weeks (probably wiplash). Since this happened I ALWAYS packed my gear myself.. TL;DR: Large rubber bands, microlines. Packer didn't use double stows => linedump => bad times. Interesting story. Wonder how all those people who use semi-stowless bags don't have the same problem as you on every jump? Line extension has nothing to do with a hard opening. Usually its the slider. As explained by a rigger to me the technical definition of line dump is when there is a lack of tension in the lines when they are un-stowing. As per the OP, my first job on the dz was as a packer on weekends. Having been one and knowing myself pretty well, I never trust packers . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
