What if skydiving is banned?

[Milo 0]

I know it sounds extreme, but the FAA is facing some extreme scenarios right now. I may be over reacting, but I would be seriously bummed if skydiving were banned, even if it was just 'for the duration'.
Should we write letters to attempt to sway the policy makers (whoever they are?) to allow skydiving?
I don't know about your DZ, the only DZs I've jumped at used C182s. We never seemed to go more than 2 or 3 miles from the DZ and the plane aways landed back at the same airport. It seems like we could get some type of exception. We are not dangerous or malicious, my DZs have not been near population centers or historical sites. Skydivers may be fanatical, but they are only fanatics about skydiving.
The AOPA.org web page said a panel of people was appointed to examine the security of the nation's air system. Most of the people appointed were either from Commercial Airlines or Commercial pilots unions. People who would stand to benefit if Private Aviation (vfr) were banned.
I'm worried this sport may not be allowed in the future, and I don't know how to stop that.
Who can I write? What type of argument do I try to make?
Milo
P.S. Or, maybe we need to figure out how to make our DZ's compliant with the 'Secure' airport standard as determined by the FAA and have an IFR flight plan for every jump run?
I just don't want to stop skydiving.

[freeflir29 0]

Probably your best bet for right now is to contact your Congressman or Senator. Make arguments based on the financial impact to his constituency. Site the millions of dollars that are not flowing through the econamy right now because of the ban. Tell them how much you spend, just as an up jumper, going to the DZ every weekend. Include gas, jump tickets, beer, and anything else you can think of. Then multiply that by the number of USPA members. I think the impact to the economy will become quite clear.
"and behold, a pale horse, and he who sat on it, his name was death"-Revelations
Clay

[FreeflyPlaymate 0]

On a lighter note, IF in fact skydiving was banned...anyone for some bandit jumps? We'll have to start hanging out with all of the BASE jumpers...making a run for it, everyman/and woman for themselves!!!
no really though, I would hope that skydiving wouldn't be shut-down even for a brief period, although it is now, and the sound is deafening, no canopies, no planes...makes me cry constantly on the inside. Go figure I'm going to class in a few minutes for aviation, so I can fly with the big dogs, and yet I can't fly....maybe it's a good thing, makes me study harder, not like I can fly anyways right now, just in my dreams.
**BLUE ONES**
BITE ME.... :P

[diver123 0]

I'm with playmate on this one! I just now started to really get into jumping and having to stop at this point could screw up all my momentum! Besides what other excuse am I going to use to see her run around naked :) ....
only kidding marissa...
"pull high! It's lower than you think..."

[xAer0 0]

Haha yeah, bandit jumping would be cool, and it can get even better...we may end up hijacking commercial flights just demanding they open the door so we can do some HALOs

And if we had you naked on the load,the pilots would be distracted enough so that the passengers(the female ones) would demand the door to get opened!Piece of cake!
Tefkros

[apoil 0]

Our skydiving planes are indeed easy targets for hijacking.
We routinely jump carrying concealed weapons in our trousers and we fill the plane with deadly explosive methane gas.

[DZBone 0]

I'd be interested to hear how the threat of terrorism impacts skydiving/GA in the Middle East, especially Isreal. Omri, drosenberg?
They have been showing stories this last week about how life in Isreal is effected by the threat of terrorism. Of course, the panicky reporter immediately makes the leap of (il)logic that this is how the US will soon be: random searches by police, metal detectors, manditory ID cards, etc.
This would truly suck. Skydiving restrictions would be the least of our problems.

[LittleJumper 0]

I agree with FreeFlir that a good way to prevent the ban is to contact Congress, they are very concerned about how all airport shut downs have affected economy. I'm sure everyone is going through withdrawls...no flying, no fun!!

[Aviatrr 0]

Quote

On a lighter note, IF in fact skydiving was banned...anyone for some bandit jumps? We'll have to start hanging out with all of the BASE jumpers...making a run for it, everyman/and woman for themselves!!!

Hey - I'm in! We'll have to make 'em night jumps to be safer, though.. Oh, and since clothing has high radar reflectivity, they will all have to be naked jumps..

Quote

Go figure I'm going to class in a few minutes for aviation, so I can fly with the big dogs, and yet I can't fly....maybe it's a good thing, makes me study harder, not like I can fly anyways right now, just in my dreams.

Where are you going to school? Several years ago, I did a lot of freelance flight instruction out in the LA basin.. You have any of your ratings yet?
Mike

[FallingMarc 0]

It's probably part of my strong desire to look at this optomistically, but I can't see GA being grounded for an extended period of time. Of course there is the national security issue, but many, many businesses, not just drop zones, absolutely depend on VFR flight. The last thing the government wants is to put these companies out of business. And Bush & his cabinet are not likely to heavily restrict flight if it means endangering the economy in an already low period.
So I'm looking forward to jumping this weekend.
Marc

[fred 0]

Wow... a post like this is likely to stir up panic.
It won't happen. They'd stop private pilots before they'd stop skydiving, and that would stir up a bigger uproar.
The FAA is just trying to be safe. They want to make sure that for the short term, that they can track every plane in the sky.
The skies aren't safe. And terrorists have demonstrated just how destructive a passenger plane can be. Many have pointed out that a C182 loaded with explosives could do just as much, and (in my not-an-explosives-expert opinion) probably more. But somebody could also do more damage with a 9-passenger van loaded up, or a suitcase filled with a chemical/biological/nuclear weapon of some sort.
The government knows this. What they're trying to do is ramp up their intelligence forces, and investigate any claims. They can't clear the skies for us until the FBI has investigated any claims of threat.
The government receives threats every day. And every one is investigated. Now that one was actually true, they've got to dig deeper into every one to see if it was related.
And, although I'd like to be jumping, that might mean keeping my DZ's tiny little cessna's out of the air so that they can better keep tabs on things. I wish it weren't necessary; hell, I don't think it is. But I'm willing to let them take their time returning GA to the air.
I don't think that they'd ban private flight. There's too many sport fliers to risk reelection.

[quade 4]

Late night ramblings . . .
First things first.
There is no ban on skydiving and I doubt there will be.
What there -IS- is a restriction on VFR flights.
Last Friday, several dropzones saw this little loophole and proceded to file and fly IFR loads. Ya can't blame 'em for trying!
However, the local FSDOs immediately shut down all of those operations within a few loads.
Hmmm, so maybe it does look as if we're being singled out.
Well, not really. It's just extremely difficult for the system to cope with the increased workload that's being generated by all of the radar monitoring that's going on and, frankly, skydiving just isn't high on their priority list right now. In order for a skydiving op to put up a load under IFR and really have any luck with spotting, they'd probably have to get quite a bit of cooperation from ATC. I know that if I was working SoCal Approach, there's no freekin' way I'd be inclined to spend an extra 2 seconds making sure some FLIB C-182 hauling skydivers had a good time if I was also worried about separating a bunch of aluminum tubes filled with a couple of hundred people. No deal. ;^) So, as the Supervisor of the TRACON involved, I'd say let's get them damn skydivers out of the way for now.
And there's at least a half dozen other reasons why you'd want to limit this VFR thing right now, so let's just wait a bit until it cools down.
Ok, so how cool would it have to be?
Well, from the ATC point of view, I'd imagine that if the traffic is flowing and the workload isn't too high, then there's probably not much of an issue.
However, from a national security point of view, I'd sure hate to have to keep track of all the VFR planes that normally fly in a place like SoCal. Did you know that about 1/4 of all the air traffic on the -planet- happens in California and about 1/2 of that traffic takes place between the Mexican boarder and Santa Barbara?
Holy Smokes! It's like a dang freeway system in the skies!
Now, normally, it's just not that big of a problem. But can you imagine trying to keep track of any of that non-sense while trying to figure out if one of them is fleeing with a bad guy, or one of them is trying to get more bad guys into the country, or if the bad guys have loaded up a C-206 with explosives and is headed for . . .
Well, you get the picture. There's just -TOO- much to look out for.
What's the solution?
Probably the first thing somebody is going to figure out is that all planes are going to be required to have a flight plan and a transponder on with an assigned squawk code. Unfortunately, there just aren't enough transponder numbers available (4096 with maybe 1000 or so reserved for special use)! In SoCal you could easily max out the system! Ouch, does that mean new tranponders for ALL U.S. aircraft? That'll get expensive.
But my guess is that's the first thing we'll be looking at; required VFR flight plans and descrete squawks (as opposed to the generic 1200). This would probably be a "first come, first served" basis and when the system maxes out, you stay on the ground until your turn comes up.
What a freekin' nightmare since this also implies that you'd be operating at an airport with at least avaliable communications with ATC, while on the ground waiting for your clearance. This blows out a LOT of private airports.
But, que sera sera.
This wait is a very small price to pay.
This skydiving ops issue will eventually work itself out.
Paul
futurecam.com/skydive.html

[FreeflyPlaymate 0]

lol yeah like I'm going to do a bandit jump naked lol indecent exposure!!!!
Anwyas, I'm doing my training out of Chino airport, there's a new aeronautical school there, well it's two years old...and is more anal on procedures, which I am actually glad about. Talk about a trip getting inside of rinky Chino airport though. Only one gate is open and you have to be on a list to get in, and then they take down your drivers lisence number and lisense plate as well. You know in a very weird way I almost felt special, I'm like that's right I'm on the LIST...top secret covert operation to get my ratings lol...and there was like this line of students to get in too...like were all some secret service people...you can see I haven't been in the air in awhile. AND cool thing another jumper is int he class, or one that isnt current by like 8 yrs but he used to be an instructor over at Elsinore back in the day, I was like dude it's changed just since I've been there you'd flip if you saw it. I have a mission!!! Well no tonly to get them back into the air, but several students caught in on my jumping stories...I think I can get some of them to jump....Go Marissa Go Marissa!!!!
Oh yeah and then to top off my night at school I stop by the store for some milk COMPLETELY forgettting about my little sony camera in my jeep (wrangler) oh yeah I came home and partked it int he garage, came upstairs fed the cat and was like oh no I knwo that baby is gone, yep...geee makes me love fellow Californians so much more!!!!
you kno wmy 8th grade teacher always had a saying i thought was funny, that's the way it goes, first your money then your clothes lol and yo uknow I thought about that and every other funny quote people tell me and I'm not as ticked as I thought I'd be, although it was a rad camera, it did have night vision gggggggggggrrrrrrrrr
**BLUE ONES**
BITE ME.... :P

[Dutchboy 0]

Quote

What a freekin' nightmare since this also implies that you'd be operating at an airport with at least avaliable communications with ATC, while on the ground waiting for your clearance. This blows out a LOT of private airports.

This is what happened to me yesterday. I spent over 15 minutes taxing around the airport looking for a spot where I could get Atlanta approach on the radio. I finally had to go directly to Atlanta center. I had to cancel IFR by phone on the ground.
As to the speed of the system yesterday, I literally could have drove quicker. It took me 2.4 hours to fly to Chattanooga and back. Of course, I did do 3 instrument approaches that added to the time. The frequencies were very congested, especially near Atlanta. I had been cleared to a radio beacon and then Atlanta approach forgot about me. Took us over 10 minutes to even get them to respond to us, so we could land at the airport 5 miles away.
I'm a bit bummed. I was supposed to have my instrument checkride today, but the examiner said the FAA was discouraging him from doing these at the moment. The current restrictions don't prevent this type of flight. Naturally since I can't do the stinking checkride I can't get the rating that would allow me to fly right now.
The Dutchboy
http://www.geocities.com/ppolstra

[ERICCONNELLY 0]

How cool would it have to be? ...
Get realistic. There is no such thing as absolute safety or security. The ATC system was already headed for a meltdown before this only keeping track of the big boys. If we have to wait for them to establish the capacity to track every plane in the air we will never fly.
And what does this accomplish anyway? Nothing. You could still fly a plane into most any target (killing yourself of course) with very little real risk of being shot down first.
By the time ATC notices a blip off course, checks to see if they are really off course, scrambles a F-16, and intercepts, you could easily hit any number of civilian targets.
We need to continue to fight for our rights as Free Americans, including the ability to travel freely.
What's next, havign to file a travel plan with the state police before getting in your car to go to the mall?
You can not eliminate the risk posed by suicidal terrorists without eliminating the terrorists.
BTW: If skydiving is banned in the states I'm moving to Canada, the beers cold there too.

[DZBone 0]

Quote

You can not eliminate the risk posed by suicidal terrorists without eliminating the terrorists.

Right on, Eric.
Paul, you paint the perfect logical chain of argument that I am afraid is going on right now about a lot of things that we currently take for granted. Skydiving is the least of them.
Life is full of risks, and ultimately fatal. Is it worth it to create an illusion of "safety", and lose freedoms? Yes, skydiving, and even VFR flight may be considered trivialities, but these things add up.
Apply the arguments that we often have here to "people shouldn't skydive, it's dangerous" to "freedoms should be taken away in the name of safety".
Grrrrrrrrr.....

[quade 4]

DZBone --
The following comments are not really directed at you. I'm just following up on the thread in general.
**********
All --
Mostly I was just thinking out loud (uh, via the keyboard) late at night. Well, late for me at least.
Anyway . . . I guess my point was that all of these VFR flight issues -can- eventually be worked out. It's probably going to cost some tax-payer money and some owner/operator money (read that as higher prices for jump tickets). Lemme go one step further and say that there -might- even be fees for airspace usage and ATC services, which is what the U.S. was beginning to lean toward anyway. Other countries do this (it sucks, but they do it) and there has been a slow movement in the U.S. government to do this here as well.
Now, do I think this is the "right" thing to do or do I willingly trade my freedoms for the "illusion" of safety?
Heck no. I'm just speculating on what is probably going to happen. I'm not advocating, just sort of telling it like it probably will be.
And there's no real recourse here.
People can complain all they want to about losing their freedoms and the trampling of the U.S. Constitution (BTW, where is the freedom to jump out of an airplane in that document?), but the reality is that during ---WARS--- certain things get changed around for the duration of the effort.
So, recapping all my related posts on the subject;
1) We're still grounded.
2) Do something positive with your lives in the meantime.
3) Know that eventually this will all be worked out.
4) Be patient.
5) Try not to act too much like a jackass (Falwell & Robertson and anyone else out there trying to scam a buck off this).
Paul
futurecam.com/skydive.html