iamcolin 0 #1 September 18, 2001 OkokokIm fairly new here to skydiving.. Only seven jumps. Ive been addicted and can see I'm not going to stop skydiving at any time soon here.. Since I just finished my PFF and will be having my first solo jump next weekend that makes things even better for me... Now what I really am looking into is getting my own rig... The thing is. Every single jump I make costs me an additional 25 dollars just in gear rental. So if I make on average 4 jumps every weekend that costs me 400 dollars every month. If I take out a 3000 dollar loan and pay if off within a year that leaves me with payments each month less than 300 dollars. So now not only do I pay less but have my own gear that I know and can use consistently. Does that make sense? So now that I pretty much know I want to get buy some 'new' used gear does anybody have any suggestions for a first setup? I really want to get into freeflying type stuff like headdown and whatnot and swooping.. I don't know how small of a canopy is good for doing swoop landing but whenever I try frontriser turns with the huge 288 sq. ft. canopies you can rent at my dz they don't do a whole lot. But maybe i could be doing it wrong.So three thousand dollars for a used rig? Is that alright for a first setup? Any suggestions?Any input is appreciated. Thanks!Colin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xAer0 0 #2 September 18, 2001 Ok...I'm gonna be straight with you!At 7 jumps you should be learning about freefall skills than worrying about hot canopies and swoops!Well, I only have 32 jumps, and if it makes you feel better, I'm pretty agressive myself...But first, learn to surf that Manta (or get a Navigator if your club has one) ... canopy control takes time to master, and you never stop learning.Once you get around 40-50 jumps, a Hornet at 1.1:1 will keep training you for the skills you need.Now, since you are interested in freeflying and other new disciplines, I'd suggest you go with a freefly friendly container.Mirage, Vector, Voodoo, Javelin Odyssey are all good choices.Put a Hornet/Sabre2/Safire or smth similar in it, and start learning.But as i said...swoops are not as simple as they sound...I can surf the Nav 260 for 20 ft in a no wind day but never attemped and won't for at least 100 more jumps to turn with front risers near the ground!There are a lot of things to learn before you even start thinking about these!A good thing to start checking is the High performance canopy control from the Australian Parachute Federation.Remember...A canopy doesn't have to be shit-hot small to swoop...any canopy can swoop, you just have to know how!So, start learning about you canopy , and stay safe!As I said, any of the above containers with a Hornet loaded at 1.1:1 can keep you learning just fine...But IF you can stay very current and get the proper training, then you could go for a Cobalt or smth at smth like 50 jumps?I don't know that...we'll have to hear some other opinions.Sorry if that post sounds like a flame to your swoop desire, I don't mean it that way, I'm just trying to suggest what I believe as a safe attitude towards hot swoops!Just my $0.02Tefkros Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazerq3 0 #3 September 18, 2001 3000 for a rig? sure..but it depends on what you want. For me I bought a new cantainer, new reserve and Used main. My reason.. I got a a very good deal on everything and plus for ME, I madde sure the cantainer I got is freefly friendly so I can learn both disiplines with it and as long as I take good care of her she should/could last me the rest of my life. Where as for the main I know I will eventually downsize so for now until I find a main to keep I will buy used ( unless a killer deal came across. Now on the other hand when chossing a container I've been told by other jumpers that if I you (in a general term) want to keep the container to make sure you can downsize in it to smaller canopies when your ready. That would suc to buy a new rig that can only hold say no smaller than a 170 and you want to go to a 150 or smaller. now you gotta buy another container. My container right now hold a 170 but its came into the DZ with a crossfire 149 and can go a little smaller so I have all kinds of room to downsize. unless of coarse I ever get good enough to fly one of those bed sheets these people are jumping now but thats a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG ways away!!!!!! anyway this is my thinking and reasoning for ME and ME only. Do what ever feels good for you . Hope I helped a little jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #4 September 18, 2001 Here's my take on it.....I've only got a few more jumps then you (198), but when I was shopping around for my Baby I wanted to get something fast and would let me do all the cool stuff that I was seeing on the videos. Well, after stopping and thinking about it I decided to get my Spectre 170 loaded at 1.05:1. I am quite happy with it. I got the Spectre, my Javelin (every option), my PD reserve and CYPRES for 3500 used. It had a total of 68 jumps on it when I got it. One thing you might want to figure out is if you are going to be able to afford to keep current if you get a small, fast canopy. My monthly skydiving bill, just jump tickets, is averaged at $500. In compairison my rent is only $570. In some months my bill is up to $650. Now if I was'nt able to stay this current there is no way I would have filled out the order form for my next canopy, a Cobalt 150 @ 1.25:1. In my short time in the sport (2 years) I've seen lots of people enter the sport all fired up but only a few come back the next year. I like the people that don't return because you can usually get good gear for cheap off of them. See if you can get your gear off of one of the recent re-wuffos at your DZ.On the canopy stuff.... look up someone you respect at your DZ and have them go over canopy issues. Respect is'nt always the smallest canopy on the DZ either....Be safe, be smooth, be fast..... and most importantly.... be phree Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,991 #5 September 18, 2001 > So now that I pretty much know I want to get buy some 'new' used gear does anybody have> any suggestions for a first setup? I really want to get into freeflying type stuff like headdown and whatnot and swooping.I recommend you do _not_ choose a rig that fulfills all those requirements. I suggest you get a good container sized for the smallest canopy you think you can land under _all_ conditions - even in turbulent wind, no wind, off airport landing etc. Without knowing you (i.e. size, weight, skill) I would recommend a system that will handle something like a Raven II reserve, a Triathalon 220 main, and a cypres. Some other good main canopies include the Spectre, Sabre, Silhouette, and Omega. Most modern containers work fine - differences are mainly minor.>I don't know how small of a canopy is good for doing swoop landing but whenever I try frontriser turns with the huge> 288 sq. ft. canopies you can rent at my dz they don't do a whole lot.That's fortunate. There are some things you need to learn before you even try a swoop, including:- botched swoop recovery- flat turns- flare turns- both front riser approaches- planeout landingsYou can learn these under the canopies listed above. Once you can perform these under the canopies above, you will be ready to try swoop landings, and eventually go smaller. At some point you'll want to sell the rig and buy a smaller one (smaller reserve, primarily.) Since it's hard to judge yourself when you're ready for the smaller canopy, get someone you trust who is a good canopy pilot to help you make that decision.>So three thousand dollars for a used rig? Is that alright for a first setup? Any suggestions?$2000-2500 for a first rig, including a cypres, is doable. (I spent $950 on my first rig but that was a long time ago.)-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites iamcolin 0 #6 September 18, 2001 Hey,Yeah I realize I need to learn all that. The thing is though I kind of wanted to get something that will last me awhile.. So I didn't really want to get a huge canaopy. I'm already sick of this big one I've been using.. Oh yeah I wasn't trying to swoop those landings! Just around 3k in the air. I've been doing pretty good with my landings only ever not stood up once which was my first jump. So Im happy with that.Also the money issue is that I'm using Canadian money.. So it's not worth as much.I was thinking something like a 170 or 190?Also what are the ratios you guys are giving me? I have no idea what something like 1:1:1 is. hah.Colin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #7 September 18, 2001 Well..... how much do you weigh and how old are you? Are you fit or a little on the "sideline fan" side? These are all factors you need to consider on a canopy. A 170 or 190 might me fine for some one who weighs 160-180 pounbds but a 230 pound person would be pushing it of a first canopy.The ratio is the wingloading.Exit weight (body weight + rig(~20lbs) / square footage.150 lb person + 20lb rig / 170 foot canopy = 1:1Be safe, be smooth, be fast..... and most importantly.... be phree Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites iamcolin 0 #8 September 18, 2001 Hi..Im about 6 ft tall and weigh ummm 165 lbs. I think. Haven't weighed myself in a long while but that was what it registered last. I'm nineteen years old and I guess I would consider myself fit.. So if I went with a 170 foot canopy my ratio would be a little less than 1:1.. Crazy. I really cant wait... Also phreezone is the trip you take in the winters down to skydive arizona? Last weekend I was speaking to some people at my DZ about an annual trip everybody from around here takes to arizona from something like Jan 10 to Jan 24.... I'll be going! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Aviatrr 0 #9 September 18, 2001 Quote So if I went with a 170 foot canopy my ratio would be a little less than 1:1.. Actually, you need to add to your body weight all your gear.. If your rig weighs 20 pounds, you would have an exit weight of around 185 - which would put you at 1.1:1, which is pretty much an accepted wing loading for a first canopy.. Talk to your instructors about canopy sizes, though..Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #10 September 18, 2001 Actually... I've got work convinced that the best time to send mt to Dallas for Training is the middle of the winter And if you weigh 165 then your exit weight is 185. 185/170 = 1.1:1 Not to bad but still plenty to hurt you. A 190 would probally do you better. Look for something like a Spectre, Triathlon, Hornet, or Safire used. A Sabre2 new is a good choice too.(I've you got the bucks to burn) 1:1 is a good starting place for newbies. Give our Skybytch (Lisa) a call at Square1 and see if shes got anything that would work for you. Shes poointed me in the right direction many of times.One thing about visiting other dropzones is that you need to be a licenced jumper to jump at most of them. So you better hurry up and get that A licence so that you can travel to new places. While in AZ swing by Coolage. I'll be there hopefully around Christmas.Damn.... I love getting these frequient flier miles from work Be safe, be smooth, be fast..... and most importantly.... be phree Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,991 #11 September 18, 2001 >Yeah I realize I need to learn all that. It's eerie to hear you say that, because I know of two broken pelvises whose owners said that right before they broke them. Flat turns were on their list, yep, they were going to get to that soon.>The thing is though I kind of wanted to >get something that will last me awhile..It is a mistake to get a small canopy you can't handle in hopes you will "grow into it." I've seen the results.> So I didn't really want to get a huge canaopy. There are two ways to safely go to a smaller canopy.1. Get expert instruction. This is _not_ your friend telling you "Yeah, flare halfway and hold it, you'll be fine." This is a program like Skydive Chicago's that teaches you what you need to know to safely fly a smaller canopy.2. Reduce size gradually. If you are dead set on getting a small canopy to start with, find someone with a PD210, borrow it and put a few jumps on it. Practice flat turns and flare turns, and front riser landings. Then borrow someone's Sabre 190 - same thing. After that, you will be ready for something like a 170.>I'm already sick of this big one I've been using..But you're skydiving and landing safely, which isn't the worst thing in the world.>I was thinking something like a 170 or 190?See above.>Also what are the ratios you guys are giving me? I have no idea what >something like 1:1:1 is. hah.It's exit weight over wing area. For you, a 170 would result in a wing loading of about 1.1 to 1, which should be fine _provided_ you work down in size to it.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 273 #12 September 18, 2001 Loads of good advice here colin... If at all possible, put some jumps on a couple different canopies in the size you are planning to buy (i.e. Triathlon, Spectre, Sabre... basically all the canopies mentioned above) before you buy one. While a 170 or 190 would probably be good sizing for a first main based on your weight, don't do your first jump on it without jumping something sized somewhere between that and the 288 you're flying now. Spend a few bucks now for one of the canopy control videos on the market - then go up and do the suggested exercises - yes, even on that big student canopy. You sound like you want to be a swooper - travel if you have to, but get to a dz with an advanced canopy control course and learn how to do it right.Used is a good way to go for your first rig. Be sure that the container is "freefly friendly", will fit the canopies you want to use and that the harness fits your body. If you're buying long distance, insist on being able to return it for a refund if it doesn't fit or just isn't right; if you're buying locally insist on being able to jump it before you buy it. Like bill said, you should be able to find something that will work for you for the money you have to spend. Hey bill, what'd you get for $950? Mine was only $900 - a Racer SST, round reserve and a Fury...pull and flare,lisa---Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Aviatrr 0 #13 September 18, 2001 Quote I love getting these frequient flier miles from work Not as many as Aviatrr but oh well.... I wish I got frequent flier miles for all my flights.....I average around 35,000-40,000 miles per month.. That'd be a lot of free tickets to get all my friends out to the big boogies.. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,991 #14 September 18, 2001 >Hey bill, what'd you get for $950? Mine was only $900 - a Racer SST, round> reserve and a Fury...For $250 I got a Swift container (yes, they made containers once) a Pursuit 215 with about 1000 jumps on it and a damaged Swift reserve. I thought that having a damaged reserve wasn't a good idea so I replaced it with a new reserve for $650, then spent $50 on minor repairs/assembly.I then learned you get what you pay for. After a broken foot, back problems from the openings, and a torn plantar fascia, I replaced the Pursuit with a PD190. For a year it was my main rig until I got my first new rig (a Racer Elite) and it retired to BASE duty. I sold it and the Pursuit a few years ago to a BASE jumper who wanted a second BASE rig for $100.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tee 0 #15 September 18, 2001 There is a ton of great advice here to take to heart. Tee Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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billvon 2,991 #5 September 18, 2001 > So now that I pretty much know I want to get buy some 'new' used gear does anybody have> any suggestions for a first setup? I really want to get into freeflying type stuff like headdown and whatnot and swooping.I recommend you do _not_ choose a rig that fulfills all those requirements. I suggest you get a good container sized for the smallest canopy you think you can land under _all_ conditions - even in turbulent wind, no wind, off airport landing etc. Without knowing you (i.e. size, weight, skill) I would recommend a system that will handle something like a Raven II reserve, a Triathalon 220 main, and a cypres. Some other good main canopies include the Spectre, Sabre, Silhouette, and Omega. Most modern containers work fine - differences are mainly minor.>I don't know how small of a canopy is good for doing swoop landing but whenever I try frontriser turns with the huge> 288 sq. ft. canopies you can rent at my dz they don't do a whole lot.That's fortunate. There are some things you need to learn before you even try a swoop, including:- botched swoop recovery- flat turns- flare turns- both front riser approaches- planeout landingsYou can learn these under the canopies listed above. Once you can perform these under the canopies above, you will be ready to try swoop landings, and eventually go smaller. At some point you'll want to sell the rig and buy a smaller one (smaller reserve, primarily.) Since it's hard to judge yourself when you're ready for the smaller canopy, get someone you trust who is a good canopy pilot to help you make that decision.>So three thousand dollars for a used rig? Is that alright for a first setup? Any suggestions?$2000-2500 for a first rig, including a cypres, is doable. (I spent $950 on my first rig but that was a long time ago.)-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iamcolin 0 #6 September 18, 2001 Hey,Yeah I realize I need to learn all that. The thing is though I kind of wanted to get something that will last me awhile.. So I didn't really want to get a huge canaopy. I'm already sick of this big one I've been using.. Oh yeah I wasn't trying to swoop those landings! Just around 3k in the air. I've been doing pretty good with my landings only ever not stood up once which was my first jump. So Im happy with that.Also the money issue is that I'm using Canadian money.. So it's not worth as much.I was thinking something like a 170 or 190?Also what are the ratios you guys are giving me? I have no idea what something like 1:1:1 is. hah.Colin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #7 September 18, 2001 Well..... how much do you weigh and how old are you? Are you fit or a little on the "sideline fan" side? These are all factors you need to consider on a canopy. A 170 or 190 might me fine for some one who weighs 160-180 pounbds but a 230 pound person would be pushing it of a first canopy.The ratio is the wingloading.Exit weight (body weight + rig(~20lbs) / square footage.150 lb person + 20lb rig / 170 foot canopy = 1:1Be safe, be smooth, be fast..... and most importantly.... be phree Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites iamcolin 0 #8 September 18, 2001 Hi..Im about 6 ft tall and weigh ummm 165 lbs. I think. Haven't weighed myself in a long while but that was what it registered last. I'm nineteen years old and I guess I would consider myself fit.. So if I went with a 170 foot canopy my ratio would be a little less than 1:1.. Crazy. I really cant wait... Also phreezone is the trip you take in the winters down to skydive arizona? Last weekend I was speaking to some people at my DZ about an annual trip everybody from around here takes to arizona from something like Jan 10 to Jan 24.... I'll be going! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Aviatrr 0 #9 September 18, 2001 Quote So if I went with a 170 foot canopy my ratio would be a little less than 1:1.. Actually, you need to add to your body weight all your gear.. If your rig weighs 20 pounds, you would have an exit weight of around 185 - which would put you at 1.1:1, which is pretty much an accepted wing loading for a first canopy.. Talk to your instructors about canopy sizes, though..Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #10 September 18, 2001 Actually... I've got work convinced that the best time to send mt to Dallas for Training is the middle of the winter And if you weigh 165 then your exit weight is 185. 185/170 = 1.1:1 Not to bad but still plenty to hurt you. A 190 would probally do you better. Look for something like a Spectre, Triathlon, Hornet, or Safire used. A Sabre2 new is a good choice too.(I've you got the bucks to burn) 1:1 is a good starting place for newbies. Give our Skybytch (Lisa) a call at Square1 and see if shes got anything that would work for you. Shes poointed me in the right direction many of times.One thing about visiting other dropzones is that you need to be a licenced jumper to jump at most of them. So you better hurry up and get that A licence so that you can travel to new places. While in AZ swing by Coolage. I'll be there hopefully around Christmas.Damn.... I love getting these frequient flier miles from work Be safe, be smooth, be fast..... and most importantly.... be phree Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,991 #11 September 18, 2001 >Yeah I realize I need to learn all that. It's eerie to hear you say that, because I know of two broken pelvises whose owners said that right before they broke them. Flat turns were on their list, yep, they were going to get to that soon.>The thing is though I kind of wanted to >get something that will last me awhile..It is a mistake to get a small canopy you can't handle in hopes you will "grow into it." I've seen the results.> So I didn't really want to get a huge canaopy. There are two ways to safely go to a smaller canopy.1. Get expert instruction. This is _not_ your friend telling you "Yeah, flare halfway and hold it, you'll be fine." This is a program like Skydive Chicago's that teaches you what you need to know to safely fly a smaller canopy.2. Reduce size gradually. If you are dead set on getting a small canopy to start with, find someone with a PD210, borrow it and put a few jumps on it. Practice flat turns and flare turns, and front riser landings. Then borrow someone's Sabre 190 - same thing. After that, you will be ready for something like a 170.>I'm already sick of this big one I've been using..But you're skydiving and landing safely, which isn't the worst thing in the world.>I was thinking something like a 170 or 190?See above.>Also what are the ratios you guys are giving me? I have no idea what >something like 1:1:1 is. hah.It's exit weight over wing area. For you, a 170 would result in a wing loading of about 1.1 to 1, which should be fine _provided_ you work down in size to it.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 273 #12 September 18, 2001 Loads of good advice here colin... If at all possible, put some jumps on a couple different canopies in the size you are planning to buy (i.e. Triathlon, Spectre, Sabre... basically all the canopies mentioned above) before you buy one. While a 170 or 190 would probably be good sizing for a first main based on your weight, don't do your first jump on it without jumping something sized somewhere between that and the 288 you're flying now. Spend a few bucks now for one of the canopy control videos on the market - then go up and do the suggested exercises - yes, even on that big student canopy. You sound like you want to be a swooper - travel if you have to, but get to a dz with an advanced canopy control course and learn how to do it right.Used is a good way to go for your first rig. Be sure that the container is "freefly friendly", will fit the canopies you want to use and that the harness fits your body. If you're buying long distance, insist on being able to return it for a refund if it doesn't fit or just isn't right; if you're buying locally insist on being able to jump it before you buy it. Like bill said, you should be able to find something that will work for you for the money you have to spend. Hey bill, what'd you get for $950? Mine was only $900 - a Racer SST, round reserve and a Fury...pull and flare,lisa---Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Aviatrr 0 #13 September 18, 2001 Quote I love getting these frequient flier miles from work Not as many as Aviatrr but oh well.... I wish I got frequent flier miles for all my flights.....I average around 35,000-40,000 miles per month.. That'd be a lot of free tickets to get all my friends out to the big boogies.. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,991 #14 September 18, 2001 >Hey bill, what'd you get for $950? Mine was only $900 - a Racer SST, round> reserve and a Fury...For $250 I got a Swift container (yes, they made containers once) a Pursuit 215 with about 1000 jumps on it and a damaged Swift reserve. I thought that having a damaged reserve wasn't a good idea so I replaced it with a new reserve for $650, then spent $50 on minor repairs/assembly.I then learned you get what you pay for. After a broken foot, back problems from the openings, and a torn plantar fascia, I replaced the Pursuit with a PD190. For a year it was my main rig until I got my first new rig (a Racer Elite) and it retired to BASE duty. I sold it and the Pursuit a few years ago to a BASE jumper who wanted a second BASE rig for $100.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tee 0 #15 September 18, 2001 There is a ton of great advice here to take to heart. Tee Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
iamcolin 0 #8 September 18, 2001 Hi..Im about 6 ft tall and weigh ummm 165 lbs. I think. Haven't weighed myself in a long while but that was what it registered last. I'm nineteen years old and I guess I would consider myself fit.. So if I went with a 170 foot canopy my ratio would be a little less than 1:1.. Crazy. I really cant wait... Also phreezone is the trip you take in the winters down to skydive arizona? Last weekend I was speaking to some people at my DZ about an annual trip everybody from around here takes to arizona from something like Jan 10 to Jan 24.... I'll be going! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #9 September 18, 2001 Quote So if I went with a 170 foot canopy my ratio would be a little less than 1:1.. Actually, you need to add to your body weight all your gear.. If your rig weighs 20 pounds, you would have an exit weight of around 185 - which would put you at 1.1:1, which is pretty much an accepted wing loading for a first canopy.. Talk to your instructors about canopy sizes, though..Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #10 September 18, 2001 Actually... I've got work convinced that the best time to send mt to Dallas for Training is the middle of the winter And if you weigh 165 then your exit weight is 185. 185/170 = 1.1:1 Not to bad but still plenty to hurt you. A 190 would probally do you better. Look for something like a Spectre, Triathlon, Hornet, or Safire used. A Sabre2 new is a good choice too.(I've you got the bucks to burn) 1:1 is a good starting place for newbies. Give our Skybytch (Lisa) a call at Square1 and see if shes got anything that would work for you. Shes poointed me in the right direction many of times.One thing about visiting other dropzones is that you need to be a licenced jumper to jump at most of them. So you better hurry up and get that A licence so that you can travel to new places. While in AZ swing by Coolage. I'll be there hopefully around Christmas.Damn.... I love getting these frequient flier miles from work Be safe, be smooth, be fast..... and most importantly.... be phree Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,991 #11 September 18, 2001 >Yeah I realize I need to learn all that. It's eerie to hear you say that, because I know of two broken pelvises whose owners said that right before they broke them. Flat turns were on their list, yep, they were going to get to that soon.>The thing is though I kind of wanted to >get something that will last me awhile..It is a mistake to get a small canopy you can't handle in hopes you will "grow into it." I've seen the results.> So I didn't really want to get a huge canaopy. There are two ways to safely go to a smaller canopy.1. Get expert instruction. This is _not_ your friend telling you "Yeah, flare halfway and hold it, you'll be fine." This is a program like Skydive Chicago's that teaches you what you need to know to safely fly a smaller canopy.2. Reduce size gradually. If you are dead set on getting a small canopy to start with, find someone with a PD210, borrow it and put a few jumps on it. Practice flat turns and flare turns, and front riser landings. Then borrow someone's Sabre 190 - same thing. After that, you will be ready for something like a 170.>I'm already sick of this big one I've been using..But you're skydiving and landing safely, which isn't the worst thing in the world.>I was thinking something like a 170 or 190?See above.>Also what are the ratios you guys are giving me? I have no idea what >something like 1:1:1 is. hah.It's exit weight over wing area. For you, a 170 would result in a wing loading of about 1.1 to 1, which should be fine _provided_ you work down in size to it.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 273 #12 September 18, 2001 Loads of good advice here colin... If at all possible, put some jumps on a couple different canopies in the size you are planning to buy (i.e. Triathlon, Spectre, Sabre... basically all the canopies mentioned above) before you buy one. While a 170 or 190 would probably be good sizing for a first main based on your weight, don't do your first jump on it without jumping something sized somewhere between that and the 288 you're flying now. Spend a few bucks now for one of the canopy control videos on the market - then go up and do the suggested exercises - yes, even on that big student canopy. You sound like you want to be a swooper - travel if you have to, but get to a dz with an advanced canopy control course and learn how to do it right.Used is a good way to go for your first rig. Be sure that the container is "freefly friendly", will fit the canopies you want to use and that the harness fits your body. If you're buying long distance, insist on being able to return it for a refund if it doesn't fit or just isn't right; if you're buying locally insist on being able to jump it before you buy it. Like bill said, you should be able to find something that will work for you for the money you have to spend. Hey bill, what'd you get for $950? Mine was only $900 - a Racer SST, round reserve and a Fury...pull and flare,lisa---Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Aviatrr 0 #13 September 18, 2001 Quote I love getting these frequient flier miles from work Not as many as Aviatrr but oh well.... I wish I got frequent flier miles for all my flights.....I average around 35,000-40,000 miles per month.. That'd be a lot of free tickets to get all my friends out to the big boogies.. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,991 #14 September 18, 2001 >Hey bill, what'd you get for $950? Mine was only $900 - a Racer SST, round> reserve and a Fury...For $250 I got a Swift container (yes, they made containers once) a Pursuit 215 with about 1000 jumps on it and a damaged Swift reserve. I thought that having a damaged reserve wasn't a good idea so I replaced it with a new reserve for $650, then spent $50 on minor repairs/assembly.I then learned you get what you pay for. After a broken foot, back problems from the openings, and a torn plantar fascia, I replaced the Pursuit with a PD190. For a year it was my main rig until I got my first new rig (a Racer Elite) and it retired to BASE duty. I sold it and the Pursuit a few years ago to a BASE jumper who wanted a second BASE rig for $100.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tee 0 #15 September 18, 2001 There is a ton of great advice here to take to heart. Tee Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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billvon 2,991 #11 September 18, 2001 >Yeah I realize I need to learn all that. It's eerie to hear you say that, because I know of two broken pelvises whose owners said that right before they broke them. Flat turns were on their list, yep, they were going to get to that soon.>The thing is though I kind of wanted to >get something that will last me awhile..It is a mistake to get a small canopy you can't handle in hopes you will "grow into it." I've seen the results.> So I didn't really want to get a huge canaopy. There are two ways to safely go to a smaller canopy.1. Get expert instruction. This is _not_ your friend telling you "Yeah, flare halfway and hold it, you'll be fine." This is a program like Skydive Chicago's that teaches you what you need to know to safely fly a smaller canopy.2. Reduce size gradually. If you are dead set on getting a small canopy to start with, find someone with a PD210, borrow it and put a few jumps on it. Practice flat turns and flare turns, and front riser landings. Then borrow someone's Sabre 190 - same thing. After that, you will be ready for something like a 170.>I'm already sick of this big one I've been using..But you're skydiving and landing safely, which isn't the worst thing in the world.>I was thinking something like a 170 or 190?See above.>Also what are the ratios you guys are giving me? I have no idea what >something like 1:1:1 is. hah.It's exit weight over wing area. For you, a 170 would result in a wing loading of about 1.1 to 1, which should be fine _provided_ you work down in size to it.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #12 September 18, 2001 Loads of good advice here colin... If at all possible, put some jumps on a couple different canopies in the size you are planning to buy (i.e. Triathlon, Spectre, Sabre... basically all the canopies mentioned above) before you buy one. While a 170 or 190 would probably be good sizing for a first main based on your weight, don't do your first jump on it without jumping something sized somewhere between that and the 288 you're flying now. Spend a few bucks now for one of the canopy control videos on the market - then go up and do the suggested exercises - yes, even on that big student canopy. You sound like you want to be a swooper - travel if you have to, but get to a dz with an advanced canopy control course and learn how to do it right.Used is a good way to go for your first rig. Be sure that the container is "freefly friendly", will fit the canopies you want to use and that the harness fits your body. If you're buying long distance, insist on being able to return it for a refund if it doesn't fit or just isn't right; if you're buying locally insist on being able to jump it before you buy it. Like bill said, you should be able to find something that will work for you for the money you have to spend. Hey bill, what'd you get for $950? Mine was only $900 - a Racer SST, round reserve and a Fury...pull and flare,lisa---Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #13 September 18, 2001 Quote I love getting these frequient flier miles from work Not as many as Aviatrr but oh well.... I wish I got frequent flier miles for all my flights.....I average around 35,000-40,000 miles per month.. That'd be a lot of free tickets to get all my friends out to the big boogies.. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #14 September 18, 2001 >Hey bill, what'd you get for $950? Mine was only $900 - a Racer SST, round> reserve and a Fury...For $250 I got a Swift container (yes, they made containers once) a Pursuit 215 with about 1000 jumps on it and a damaged Swift reserve. I thought that having a damaged reserve wasn't a good idea so I replaced it with a new reserve for $650, then spent $50 on minor repairs/assembly.I then learned you get what you pay for. After a broken foot, back problems from the openings, and a torn plantar fascia, I replaced the Pursuit with a PD190. For a year it was my main rig until I got my first new rig (a Racer Elite) and it retired to BASE duty. I sold it and the Pursuit a few years ago to a BASE jumper who wanted a second BASE rig for $100.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tee 0 #15 September 18, 2001 There is a ton of great advice here to take to heart. Tee Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
