Electronic Rigger's Log

[Deisel 38]

With all of the new technology out there, has anyone come across an electronic version of a riggers's logbook? Is there any FAA rule that would prohibit the use of one?

D

The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

[mark 107]

Deisel

With all of the new technology out there, has anyone come across an electronic version of a riggers's logbook? Is there any FAA rule that would prohibit the use of one?

65.131 specifies the content but not the format of the required record. You don't have to use the blue Para-Gear logbook. You can use a physical notebook or an electronic spreadsheet. Or, if your invoices have the required info on them, you could just keep an extra copy of the invoice (paper or electronic).

With an electronic logbook, it is easier to progressively purge stuff that's more than 2 years old. With a paper logbook, you have to keep it for 2 years after the date of last entry.

Mark

[hackish 8]

I had a conversation with a TC inspector about electronic aircraft logs and his take on it was that you can electronically change anything but going back and adding fake entries in a physical book would take some work. I can understand his point. For me a book and pen is reliable enough.

Having said that I see a lot of value in your idea, such as being able to send a client a reminder that their cypres service needs to be done over the winter. Or what about an SB coming out on a rig. Jumpers don't always know about them.

-Michael

[Deisel 38]

Eventually, all business will be conducted electronically. I'm of the opinion that it's generally better to dictate the terms of change rather than have them dictated to you. Besides, if banks can figure out how to protect trillions of dollars I think we can come up with a system that maintains the integrity of a logbook.

The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

[mcordell 2]

If you do keep an electronic logbook, like an excel spreadsheet, I'd say you should back it up to a cloud account like google drive or icloud so it is not only stored on your computer. That would also allow you to access it from anywhere, including your phone, if you needed to refer to it for some reason.

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[Hellis 0]

Excel is a great tool for this in my opinion.
You can have it count down the days to repack/Cypres service and alert you when you need to remind the owner.
Or Excel can email the owner and do it for you.

+1 for backup!

[betzilla 56]

Quote

Excel is a great tool for this in my opinion.
You can have it count down the days to repack/Cypres service and alert you when you need to remind the owner.

Yes! I used an excel sheet to manage the school gear when I was the rigger at a couple different big DZ's works like a charm. I never got good enough with excel to have it send out emails, but that sounds really hot!

I like the idea of switching over to a fully electronic format, especially since my workplace can then have those records on file as well....

[riggerrob 643]

betzilla

Quote

Excel is a great tool for this in my opinion.
You can have it count down the days to repack/Cypres service and alert you when you need to remind the owner.

Yes! I used an excel sheet to manage the school gear when I was the rigger at a couple different big DZ's works like a charm. I never got good enough with excel to have it send out emails, but that sounds really hot!

I like the idea of switching over to a fully electronic format, especially since my workplace can then have those records on file as well....

..........................................................................

Hee!
Hee!
It worked the same way back when paper logbooks were fashionable.
Every time I finished working on a school parachute, I submitted a work-order/invoice to manifest who duly entered it in a massive parachute maintenance log. I suspect that the primary function of the pretty paperwork was to impress Transport Canada, who spend several days (every year) pouring through piles of paperwork. TC must have been impressed with the paperwork, because they never looked at a parachute.
But when manifest got confused, they always looked in my (paper) rigger's logbook!
Hah!
Hah!

[3mpire 0]

Quote

Having said that I see a lot of value in your idea, such as being able to send a client a reminder that their cypres service needs to be done over the winter. Or what about an SB coming out on a rig. Jumpers don't always know about them.

Just curious, would riggers be interested in an online service that makes logging, billing/invoicing, and serial number lookups easy? Interested enough to pay a monthly or annual fee?

[Hellis 0]

betzilla

Quote

Excel is a great tool for this in my opinion.
You can have it count down the days to repack/Cypres service and alert you when you need to remind the owner.

Yes! I used an excel sheet to manage the school gear when I was the rigger at a couple different big DZ's works like a charm. I never got good enough with excel to have it send out emails, but that sounds really hot!

I like the idea of switching over to a fully electronic format, especially since my workplace can then have those records on file as well....

It's not very hard to make Excel send out emails.
Just a few lines of VBA code.
The problem is that the workbook needs to be open for it to work, so if you don't open the workbook once a week or so it won't do anything.

If you have template that works ok, I can probably add the feature to send emails.
I'm not sure it will work with web based emails (hotmail).

[mcordell 2]

it would work with web based email accounts so long as the mail account is linked with email software. Considering newer operating systems are designed to work with web based email (like gmail) rather than pop3 servers I think it'd be a lot easier now than it used to be.

www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

[Hellis 0]

True.
That was what I should have written :-)
But some softwares might be harder to control, but should be doable.

[hajnalka 0]

3mpire

Quote

Having said that I see a lot of value in your idea, such as being able to send a client a reminder that their cypres service needs to be done over the winter. Or what about an SB coming out on a rig. Jumpers don't always know about them.

Just curious, would riggers be interested in an online service that makes logging, billing/invoicing, and serial number lookups easy? Interested enough to pay a monthly or annual fee?

This is an excellent idea! Especially for SBs. I might be ... but most of us don't have a lot of income for something like this.

I track everything as I work in a paper notebook out of habit (I'm old,) but also put everything into a database (MS Access) and all contact info in Google. It's just easier, and more reliable/portable.

I've even learned some SQL so I can do database queries. Excel would probably be easier, but I've always sucked at it.

I have never used the commercial logbooks. The FAA has looked at my stuff and they've been fine with it.

[JerryBaumchen 1,362]

Hi Dawn,

Quote

I have never used the commercial logbooks. The FAA has looked at my stuff and they've been fine with it.

The FAA offers nothing in the way of guidelines as to just how it is to be recorded. BTW, which is often the 'norm' for them.

You could use a $0.39 tablet & a $0.25 pencil.

The only req'ments are that you record certain information & retain it for no less than two years.

Jerry Baumchen

[Hellis 0]

hajnalka

***

Quote

Having said that I see a lot of value in your idea, such as being able to send a client a reminder that their cypres service needs to be done over the winter. Or what about an SB coming out on a rig. Jumpers don't always know about them.

Just curious, would riggers be interested in an online service that makes logging, billing/invoicing, and serial number lookups easy? Interested enough to pay a monthly or annual fee?

This is an excellent idea! Especially for SBs. I might be ... but most of us don't have a lot of income for something like this.

I track everything as I work in a paper notebook out of habit (I'm old,) but also put everything into a database (MS Access) and all contact info in Google. It's just easier, and more reliable/portable.

I've even learned some SQL so I can do database queries. Excel would probably be easier, but I've always sucked at it.

I have never used the commercial logbooks. The FAA has looked at my stuff and they've been fine with it.


Give this a try.
Keep in mind this is only a proof of concept.
The button to send Email is not supposed to be there, this is just something for now to activate the code.

When you open the file this warning will appear:

[inline Capture.JPG]

Macros needs to be enabled for this to work.

The workbook has two sheets, one with the logbook and one with your information.
You need to edit the information on the second sheet for it to work.
The emailsettings listed is what I think will work for Hotmail (don't use it myself).
If you don't have Hotmail you can find this information in you email application or "email supplier".

If you wish to test the emailfunction:
First change "John Does" email to yours.
Change the emailsettings on "Your info".

Currently the workbook can only send emails if it's less than 30 days to repack.
Change the repack date to a earlier date to make "days left" less than 30, or change in "Your info"-sheet the threshold of when to send emails.
Click on the button and a email will be sent to your email.

KEEP IN MIND: the information you type in sheet 2 (Your info) is not crypted and if you upload this workbook on a website/host or email it to someone they will have access to your emails.

[hajnalka 0]

Thanks! I will look at this.

Take care,
-D

[hajnalka 0]

Hey Jerry!
Yep, in my experience they just want to make sure you're diligent in keeping your records, whether electronic or on paper.

I think a lot of it comes down to what works best for the situation. I've seen some DZs that incorporate rigging records pretty impressively into DZ manifest software, all the way down to the individual itinerant rigger with the blue logbook.

This is a great thread. Thanks to the OP.

[theonlyski 8]

I have a Google doc spreadsheet for my flight log. Makes it MUCH easier to find specific things in the entries (say I want to find all of my high performance or complex time, it's easy to filter).

It's also free...

I've considered moving my rigging logbook over to a document, and I still might, but that would be a bunch of entries to move over and I'd have to be pretty bored to do it.

Of course, I don't think you could run macros to send emails on the google doc version.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
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[BrianM 1]

theonlyski

Of course, I don't think you could run macros to send emails on the google doc version.

You can: https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=pDwwVNeAMcS5iwKqtoDoCg&url=https://developers.google.com/apps-script/&cd=1&ved=0CBwQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNFwotsDfTfbwcDODZb6JOz8z-7stg&sig2=0pHcYrlVc99v0-AYskYklA

"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg

[JerryBaumchen 1,362]

Hi Robert,

Quote

but that would be a bunch of entries to move over

Just create the electronic version and start using it.

In two years ( or longer if you prefer ) discard the paperwork of the previous entries.

Just a thought,

Jerry Baumchen

[hackish 8]

I was thinking about this idea this weekend past. There could be ways to sign an entry and prove there were no modifications but these schemes usually cost money to have an independent org to sign the timestamped signatures.

I don't have time to build a web app for this, especially considering the challenge of working with a bunch of cantankerous old riggers for a few pennies...

-Michael

[rastapara 0]

Quote

I don't have time to build a web app for this

If someone is willing to pay me I could build something Will program for beers

Parachute gear garage sale at :http://www.usedparachutes.eu