Newbie Questions

[DZBone 0]

Well, fred, it's great to have faith in your instructors, and sure, they can't teach you everything, but you should know what your equipment is, and what is does. Especially if you specifically ask them. Watcher was able to give a good explaination that would have taken him 30 seconds to do in person, max.
I would not consider knowing what an RSL is to be an "advanced technique". Perhaps some of the EPs with it, but not the purpose of the device.

[fred 0]

DZBone, I certainly didn't mean to offend you. I'm just saying, that as a new jumper, I have to have faith in a lot more than just the backup devices. If they don't require me to do something, I might even be better off not worrying about them.
As it happens, I probably wouldn't have been satisfied with the 30 second explanation. I'm a scientist by nature, and want to know not only what it does, but how it does it. If she'd answered our question further than the 'it's a safety device', we would have pursued until we knew how it might save our lives.
She told me it was there, that it was a safety device, and I knew that I'd find out the rest later. I have to have faith in my instructors, or I would have never jumped out of that first plane. As it is, I'm still scared as hell when I step off and hang, and so long as I'm over 90% likely to land alive, I'm happy. When I gain more experience and comfort, and regain the ability to actually think about what I'm doing, I'm terribly interested in what everything does. I'll get there, and basedon the speed of the program, I'm sure I'll find out everything I have to remember before I think I'm ready.

[DZBone 0]

No offense taken, fred! I just hate to hear that when someone takes an interest in learning, that their instructors blow them off like this, that's all. I would hope that at some point they will get to all this, and perhaps knowing your inquiring nature, she thought best to put off the longer discussion about it. There was a related post awhile ago, where someone was worried that their friend at another dz (and at about the same point in their training) hadn't learned a proper PLF. The point was made there that you are responsible for your training. The instructors have to deal with a wide variety of people and learning styles, as I'm sure you can imagine. If you are ready to take in more information, push them to give it to you. They will/should appreciate your additional interest, and give you more to digest than the average student can/should handle.
Of course, this is a great place to be able to ask for long, detailed explainations, as many of us are at work, looking to kill time talking about skydiving! Of course, not all of us are instructors, so caveat emptor. haha
Carl

[fred 0]

My friend and I (who took our first jumps together) are both inquisitive, and we do ask a lot of questions (probably just short of being annoying). We had a long talk with our coach bout why it took longer for the planes to get to altitude in our 100+ weather, and I learned a bit about engines.
I certainly don't think that my JM or instructor are trying to shortchange me on my instruction. I think that they realized it wasn't a very important question, and that she didn't have time to answer it before sunset (which was important, because otherwise I wouldn't have been able to jump).
I'm one of those booksmart folk, and i've already read most of the USPA guide, and I know, in my brain, a lot more than I'm ready to actually execute. Words will never be able to explain what I'm actually supposed to 'do' when I'm up there.
I take the coach's word (is that the right term? The guy on the ground who tells me what to do) as gospel. I'm about ready to say, "Piss off, I'm flaring now", but the JM seems secondary to me. That is, I ask the easy questions to the JM, and anything that affects my safety, I ask my coach.

[Michele 1]

Hi, Carl and Fred
I didn't know about the rsl until after my mal. Vinnie was teasing me about getting the red pillow wrapped back on my rig and not knowing it, and wanted to know where the silver was. I recall looking at him incredulously, thinking you put me through the harness room, make me throw it far, and you wonder where it went? Somewhere in the stupid field, and no, I am not going to go look for it.
Three days later, when I went back and after I landed, I asked Ed what Vinnie meant. And it was then that I understood rsl's and their function. I, being inquisitive myself, asked why I hadn't been told about it (inquisitive yes, observant, it seems not). Ed explained that the instructors really want to instill the correct emergency procedures in us, that they have us drill as if there were no backup. Because backups fail, and if we wait for them, and they do not occur, then we die.
I have no recollection of the reserve popping prior to my pulling the silver, but I was not in a state to notice everything. I was surprised to find out about it - I thought I had pulled silver all by myself. And I will tell you that while we have cypres, it never occurred to me to wait for that, either.
Just my newbie .02, though.
ciels and great jumping to you-
Michele

[SpeedRacer 1]

Fred,
One other piece of advice:
When you owe beer, BRING IT!!!
Speed Racer
"Come up to my lab,
And see what's on the slab!"

[fred 0]

Don't worry about the beer.. I'm prepared there.
I have a question, though I'm going to find out tomorrow anyway.
Seems my partner in flight left his logbook on top of his car as he drove home today. It's gone.
He failed his last practice pull, so he'd be repeating his third jump tomrrow no matter what, but what else will this affect? We know the DZ staff, so we imagine that he'll just start back on a practice pull, and no real harm done. But this is just our theory.
How do most DZ's deal with this? What about the USPA? Since he hasn't done any actual freefall, it shouldn't affect his A license, yes? What happens if somebody loses their log on a higher jump, like #15 or 16? I'm sure it happens occasionally.

[freeflir29 0]

"What happens if somebody loses their log on a higher jump, like #15 or 16? I'm sure it happens occasionally."
Ummm....jump what ya can....log what ya need?????
"I used to know a girl...She had two pirced nipples and a black tattoo"-Everclear
Clay

[fred 0]

Okay, I've got a few more questions.
First, while I know what RW is (I don't see myself having an interest in this, though I know I have to do some before I graduate), I don't understand what freefalling is. Is that just doing tricks and tracking by yourself? If so, this is actually more interesting to me at this point, but it seems like most of the experienced divers do RW. Is there a reason for this? How is it that the two are distinct? (It seems like being a good freefaller would be a precondition for being a good RW'er.)
Second, when people talk about being level 5, does that mean they're in an AFF course? How many levels is it? Does somebody have a brief outline of what an AFF course consists of? Frankly, I already feel like the SL course I'm on goes awful quick, but AFF is faster?

[FallingMarc 0]

I think what you're referring to is "freeflying", which can be defined as flying in any positions other than belly to earth. Relative workers do pretty much all their stuff on their belly. In freefly posisions such as a sit, stand, or head down, you fall a whole hell of a lot faster than when you're on your belly, and then you can also get into formation freeflying. Freeflying is relatively new in the world of skydiving, that's why there's more relative workers around.
AFF has 7 levels(right?), and an AFF student is in solo freefall from the very first jump. By 'solo', I mean that as opposed to tandem--on the first few AFF dives you have a jumpmaster on either side of you, holding on to keep you steady. Then, you go to just one jumpmaster, then after you've passed the 7 levels, you're cleared to solo.
I don't think I explained that very clearly. Never mind. Marc

[Aviatrr 0]

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First, while I know what RW is (I don't see myself having an interest in this, though I know I have to do some before I graduate), I don't understand what freefalling is. Is that just doing tricks and tracking by yourself?

Freefall is what happens from the time you leave the airplane until you deploy your canopy.. No more, no less.. RW is something you do during freefall.. Freeflying is something you do during freefall.. Tracking is something you do during freefall.....etc..

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If so, this is actually more interesting to me at this point, but it seems like most of the experienced divers do RW. Is there a reason for this? How is it that the two are distinct? (It seems like being a good freefaller would be a precondition for being a good RW'er.)

Well, RW is prominent at some DZ's, while others are predominatly Freefly DZ's, but most have a good mix of the two.. I, personally, don't care too much for RW.. I do it sometimes, but most of the time I'm freeflying.. Freeflying is flying your body in all different positions(sitting, standing, head down, etc).. A good freeflyer can fly in any position, including belly flying, and greatly vary fall rate and horizontal movement based on body position..

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Second, when people talk about being level 5, does that mean they're in an AFF course? How many levels is it? Does somebody have a brief outline of what an AFF course consists of?

AFF typically consists of 7 levels, but many DZ's add a 'level 8' as a supervised solo.. Each level has TLO's(Target Learning Objectives) that the student must complete to pass the level.. It's not uncommon for people to have to repeat a level or two during AFF.. For a general outline, go to 'www.USPA.org' and download the SIM(Skydivers Information Manual) - it's under the 'Download DOCs and Forms' section on the left side of the opening page.. The new ISP(Integrated Student Program) is broken down in the SIM.. I believe they use 'Category A' through 'Category H' now rather than 'Level 1' through 'Level 8'.. Not all DZ's have switched to the new ISP yet, since it is very new..
Mike

[Kris 0]

Yeah, what Avaitrr said!
Myself, I love to freefly even though I'm a big-boy and have a fall-rate like a home-sick bowling-ball. I fully embrace "The Dark Side". However, you should make sure that you have a solid basis in basic RW skills before attempting to freefly.
In freeflying your speeds are much faster than RW, altitude goes by fast and a dive can go from "Oh Wow!" to "Holy Shit!" in the blink of an eye. Awareness is crucial and so is getting good coaching from a competent freeflyer. Also, make sure that you have at least one audible altimeter (two is great) and, even though I'm a hypocrite for saying this as I do not have one in my rig yet, having a CYPRES in your rig would be a good thing too.
The discipline will always be there when you are ready. I tell my own students to eventually try everything; CRW, Freefly, Freestyle, and even Accuracy. Our great sport has a lot of disciplines and you are sure to find something that you fall in love with, but to be a well-balanced "Renaissance Man" skydiver is a great thing and gives you greater overall experience from having tried many things as your skill level eventually progresses.
An example:
CRW - Teaches awesome canopy control skills
RW - Gets you used to thinking in new ways and working with others.
Freefly / Freestyle - Learn how to balance and fly on any part of your body.
Accuracy - Could save your butt someday, teaches canopy control and is part of your license requirements.
Skysurfing / Birdman suits - Well, those are just plain fun and I personally want to try a Birdman suit when I have the experience level for it. Think of them as your bonus / desert for learning all of the above...
Above all else, talk to your Jumpmasters / Instructors when you get off of student status, tell them what you're interested in and they'll tell you what you need to focus on to get there.
Just my $0.02 as another newbie JM
Kris
"I tried to get a rectangular bear for months
Ended up I had to get a polar bear and use trig..."