What would you do?

[Babi 0]

Imagine:
You are in a group of about 10 skydivers, the plane takes 14, gathering in front of the plane and discussing who is doing what in the air, the opening altitudes and so on and an order of exit is determined. Then just as the first jumper wants to enter the plane, two other jumpers, who did not participate in the discussion, cut in and enter the plane first. With engines on it is impossible to hold a conversation in the plane and they speak a foreign language.
According to the original plan you are supposed to be out one before last.
What would you do??
Would you abort the flight?? How many of you have actually done it?

[shermanator 4]

even if they speak a different language, I have found it easy to find out what other language people are doing, by simple gestures, and it is not THAT hard to move around a little bit in the plane. well, i've mainly jumped an otter, maybe on some other planes it is harder?

CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08
CSA #720

[dragon2 2]

Maybe my view is too rosy colored, but if they are experienced jumpers they generally tend to know when to get out. If someone is adamant about getting in first, they may do a hopnpop or something. But most everybody speaks english nowadays, or try pointing at your alti etc.

I remember having "heated" discussions with Spanish etc jumpers when I was there, trying to convince them to let me get in as one of the last because I looked like a solo freeflier but was jumping with CRW guys (from 7k). I got through eventually.....

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Ugali 0]

well, it depends what is happening. i was taught big loads out first, freefliers out last (running into the wind.) next time grab ahold of them before they get on the plane and ask through hand signals what they are doing, safety is paramount.

tom

Tom, Tom Tom, Tommy, Tom Love

[padalcek 9]

it's relatively easy to figure out what people intend to do - even if they speak foreign language.
rw or freefly + pull altitude is usually all the info you need. after that all you need to do is make sure they know which group to follow out.

Padalcek - CCO, HF-17
http://www.theflyinghellfish.com
I'm not a real skydiver - but I do play one on dz.com.

[D22369 0]

the exit order that most use is;

bigger rw first
small rw second
big freefly third
small freefly fourth
high pullers/students/tandems out last

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[Babi 0]

Thank you guys for taking the time to answer.
I was told that in the plane you never discuss the order of exit or what you will be doing in the air. This should all be done before, on the ground.

I guess in this situation if would be better to discuss it.

The order of exit differs from DZ to DZ. I think it would not hurt if this was printed and posted somewhere at the DZ and visible to all. Maybe a compulsory separation time as well??

[dragon2 2]

Don't forget to put the wingsuiters in last. We have that same list (well we include CRW and skysurf in there too) in our airplane but still have to argue sometimes with other DZ's jumpers about us wingsuiters. For some reason we never make it onto that list

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Brains 2]

Quote

I was told that in the plane you never discuss the order of exit or what you will be doing in the air. This should all be done before, on the ground.

You were probably told not to decide exit order and dive plan on the plane, obviously it should be done prior to getting on the plane, when you have visiting groups/other languages on board, you should do what you can to keep the whole load safe.

Quote

I guess in this situation if would be better to discuss it.

YES!!

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[MagicGuy 0]

Quote

Thank you guys for taking the time to answer.
I was told that in the plane you never discuss the order of exit or what you will be doing in the air. This should all be done before, on the ground.

Yeah, this stuff should be figured out before boarding up the plane. It clears everyone's mind once actually on the plane. But that doesn't mean that you CAN'T discuss it on the plane, especially in a case like this.

[LloydDobbler 2]

Quote

Thank you guys for taking the time to answer.
I was told that in the plane you never discuss the order of exit or what you will be doing in the air. This should all be done before, on the ground.

I guess in this situation if would be better to discuss it.

The order of exit differs from DZ to DZ. I think it would not hurt if this was printed and posted somewhere at the DZ and visible to all. Maybe a compulsory separation time as well??

Yeah...that would be an annoying situation. At one of the DZ's I frequent, they ask you what dive you're planning on doing when you manifest for a load. Then the manifest coordinators decide the exit order, and as you're walking to the plane they give someone on the load a slip of paper containing the exit order.

At that DZ, I've never found myself standing next to an Otter behind a roaring prop trying to decide who gets in first. It's always right there in front of us. We've changed our minds on the way to altitude before, sure, and adjusted exit order accordingly...but that's particularly easy, when you have a slip of paper telling you who's doing what.

It also forces you to plan your dives ahead of time - while you're packing, you're already thinking of what you'll be doing next. (And if you ever forget someone's name, you can glance at the sheet on the way up. Which has come in handy more than once.)

I've only been to one DZ where they do this, however (which always seems odd to me). But it obviously could've helped in your situation.

Regardless, given the scenario you laid out, yeah, I wouldn't think twice about discussing it with them in whatever way I could on the way up, just to be sure. Like MagicGuy said, discussing exit order beforehand clears people's minds when they're on the plane...but obviously the two jumpers didn't get that memo. Which made YOUR mind unclear. Which means you needed to take action to clear it & make sure everyone was on the same page.

Signatures are the new black.

[jimmytavino 16]

sorry to be a stickler regarding words,,,, and semantics,,,,,

But never never dirt dive , stand, congregate, walk or BE in "front of the airplane" as mentioned in your orginal post.....
Right????
Regardless of whether the prop(s) is/are turning or NOT>>>>>>>

bad juju........as for discussing exit order on board..... sure why Can't you do that????
I wanna be completley certain of WHO is Going WHEN and I like to know this well before the door goes Up...
I fully understand the concept of Load Organizer,,,,, and IF someone is getting a free lift ticket to BE that L O. .. it seems that he or she needs to do waaaaay more than just lead his or her own particular group.... They should organize the ENTIRE load... that's not so say they need to ,, engineer each and every group.... But they should at least Know WHAT each group is doing, and where the solos fit in, and where the tandems, and students etc fit in,, and if asked by ANYone on the plane,,, "what's Happening"?? they should have an accurate answer...
right??? a Load Organizer should be lots more than a 4 way partipant who's getting a free skydive....
ok .... fire away!!!!!

jmy

[Guest 1010]

These are the hand signals used at Eloy, so no English is required

freefly: two fingers pointed down (upside-down V)
belly: hand flat and arched, palm down

and the exit order they use is the same as at my home dz

large-to-small belly
large-to-small freefly
students
tandems/wingsuits
full-alti hop n pops

Blues Skies

edit to answer the question:
If you have to, YELL at them to find out what they are doing. I've always been able to communicate with those next to me even on the loudest caravan or otter, so you can too. Don't pussy-foot around.

Between hand signals (above) and pointing at dial altimeters you can get the jump type and pull altitude.

Since you are second-to-last out I assume you are probably doing a solo ff or pulling high with the same or wingsuit for the last one out. Depending on their answer I may put them out before us last two, just to be sure I can give proper separation myself without trusting them to do so. If they seemed like newbs or stoned or something I would definitely put them out before me and not trust them a bit.

You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.

[Babi 0]

Bad choice of words, sorry. We were standing ON THE SIDE OF the plane, in front of the door.

The order was fixed as far as I knew and the person that was supposed to jump after me knew my opening altitude, which was high (1400 m - trying new canopy).

But the order was not followed. I assume there must have been some discussion on the plane between the three of them, as the freeflyer jumped last and the two jumpers followed me. So there could not have been enough communication. I am speculating, but I doubt that the freeflyer managed to tell the two guys about my opening altitude. Just the scenario that I was warned against. Still, next time I shall try to convey my message.

Before my first jump at this DZ I was briefed on winds, landings and separation time,which was 4 seconds. I was sick and I missed one day and then I heard unofficially, after that jump, that the separation was 3 seconds. I'd rather see this in writing.

[aguila 0]

I am almost positive the flight would not be aborted and every one would be trying to:

1- figure out what the new skydivers will do
2- communicate with them

What would I do in such a case? If I cannot be sure of their opening altitude I would try to jump the last but before wingsuiters and tandems and would open high

Gonzalo

It cannot be done really means I do not know how to do it ... yet

[JohnMitchell 16]

Quote

I was told that in the plane you never discuss the order of exit or what you will be doing in the air. This should all be done before, on the ground.

I guess in this situation if would be better to discuss it.

Yes, if you don't discuss it on the ground, it should be discussed on the way to altitude. Unprofessional, but it beats nothing at all.