Who's mal'd on an AFF jump?

[Rhonda66 0]

After reading Michele's stories from the past few days, I'm just wondering if anyone else experienced a malfunction on an AFF jump and what their reaction was.
Share your stories with us!
Personally, I didn't, but my instructor mal'd on my Level 7. He had a big ball of crap trailing out of his reserve while we were in freefall and he didn't even know so I freaked and just backslid away while he followed me and kept motioning for me to go ahead with my maneuvers. I wanted to do something to warn him, but I didn't know what to do so I just kept backsliding, pulled high and prayed for the best. When I looked down, he had two chutes out and was in a spinning downplane. He managed to cutaway his main though, which cleared the reserve, and had a nice landing under the reserve, which had somehow managed to fully inflate - it was scary as hell and I thought about quitting because it was the first time I realized that something bad really could happen - it sucks when that reality sets in, but if you love the sport you keep doing it anyway and you learn from those sorts of experiences.
By the way, the packer's seal was later found on the plane...so remember to check your gear before you leave the aircraft - even if you're the instructor....
Oh, and I got to do Level 7 again for free (hehe - I got a free skydive out of it)...
So anyone else have a scary experience during AFF???
Rhonda

[Michele 1]

Hi, Rhonda66
There was a guy I talked to yesterday who said he'd had a line over on AFF level 5, and had to cut-away. He'd just come back for his AFF 6th - it took him quite a while to come back out.
I don't have any idea what I would have done if I saw my jm's in trouble. Is there a hand signal to let someone know that they have a problem if they don't know about it?
bleau cieux-
Michele

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

Is there a hand signal to let someone know that they have a problem if they don't know about it?

The middle finger?
(Sorry, I know this is supposed to be a serious post, I just couldn't help it.) AggieDave '02
-------------
Blue Skies and Gig'em Ags!
BTHO t.u.

[Rhonda66 0]

Hi -
The JM told me afterwards that I did the right thing - he said if I had tried to pull his reserve handle he would have knocked me out :) and I doubt I would have been able to pull that off anyway on a Level 7. He did say that if you can you should hand motion or point to the person as much as you can. I did try to do that, but as I put my arm out I felt like I was teetering into a barrel roll so I gave up. If I had barrelrolled and the JM had to rescue me, then we probably would have ended up with a much bigger problem than what was already at hand.
I know I could get the other person to notice it now if that happened one way or another, but I don't think there's much that a student can be expected to do if something happens to their JM. As far as I know, there is no specific signal, but maybe someone should come up with a signal for such circumstances - I guess you don't think about that kind of stuff until it happens....
Rhonda

[PalmettoTiger 1]

Quote

The middle finger?

That was my first thought, too!
Seriously, I can't think of much. Talking is useless. If your eyes go really wide, the instructors will think it's just shock at being in freefall. Maybe patting your rig and then pointing to them?
Blues, Squares,
PTiger
*insert sub-100 character sig here*

[Zennie 0]

Maybe pointing at them & laughing?
------------
Blue Skies!
Zennie

[Aviatrr 0]

Quote

After reading Michele's stories from the past few days, I'm just wondering if anyone else experienced a malfunction on an AFF jump and what their reaction was.

Jump #3. Slider hung up at the canopy on the right rear line group. Pumped the brakes a couple times, nothing happened. Chopped it. Made a sweet stand up landing on that big ass reserve. My instructor walked up to me, started to say something, backed up a couple feet, and the main landed on me. Good spot. Mike

[DiverDave 0]

Jump #4 (freefalls #4 and #5 :)
Freefall went great... from the video you can see that I am nice and stable at pulltime, but you can see the lines starting to twist up right after the bag comes off my back.
The opening was pretty hard, and the canopy started to spin right away. I could see that the lines (and risers) were twisted all the way up to the slider, and that only half of the canopy seemed to be inflated properly. I ditched my ripcord, grabbed the risers, pulled them apart as hard as I could and kicked... tried that twice, by then I was spinning horizontal to earth up next to my canopy. Going through the video frame-by-frame later, it looks like it may have been a line-over.
A choice word escaped my lips as i reached for handles... pull red, pull silver... ... reserve open!
A couple of deep breaths, then I released the brakes and did a canopy check on my reserve. As most of you know, it is an interesting feeling looking up at your last canopy!
The reserve landed fine, although not terribly gracefully...
On my next jump, I was somewhat 'attentive' at opening time as I watched my main deploy beautifully. I have to say, having a malfunction, and dealing with it, that early was a great experience. Gave me a lot more confidence than the harness room ever could...
Cheers... Dave

[Hellian 0]

Ok, now you're all scaring me! I start my AFF in 3 weeks and although I can see how an early mal (providing, obviously, no-one is hurt) could be a good learning tool; I still don't want one!!
Anyway, glad to hear you all got out of trouble safely!, as for the JM mal, i think (if i was able) i would have done exactly the same thing as was done.
Ed

[ADRNALN 0]

Okay, its not actually a mal but.........
On my AFP3 jump I was under a full canopy pulling red zone turns and on the secong or third one I whipped the left toggle down. All of the sudden the canopy is turning and diving and I'm not. The center cell collapsed and the chute started to fold right down the center with line twists. Luckly as soon as this all started I lifted the toggle as far up as I could while riding my invisible bike. Just as quickly as it happened (well almost) it was gone. The funny thing is that during the whole thing I could hear my instructors voice, Nanette, saying "don't yank the toggle, pull them smoothly". Actually the whole thing was quite funny and scary at the same time.

[Rhonda66 0]

Hey Ed -
We don't want to scare you here - the chances of a mal during AFF are quite small - I didn't have one in my 11!!(well, 12 including the Level 7 repeat due to the JM mal) AFF jumps. Actually I haven't had one yet in over 200 jumps -
It's good for you to know that it CAN happen so that you'll pay attention during your training and be prepared instead of thinking "that won't happen to me"....
Best of luck with AFF - you'll have the time of your life!
Rhonda

[Grogs 0]

Quote

Ok, now you're all scaring me! I start my AFF in 3 weeks and although I can see how an early mal (providing, obviously, no-one is hurt) could be a good learning tool; I still don't want one!!

Don't let it bother you. You need to be prepared to deal with a malfunction every time you jump, but they're actually very uncommon. I've probably seen 2-300 students jumping at our Dropzone in the last year and we have'nt had a single student mal in that time (knock on wood). Just make sure in the unlikely event you have one you pull the handle(s) and save your life.
As for how to signal the JM, actually the best way I can think of would be to just throw out your main. The guy might not necessarily realize what's going on, but there's a good possibility he'd throw out too and try to figure out why you pulled. That should, if nothing else, give him some extra altitude to deal with his mal. Even if he decides to ride it down, he at least doesn't have to worry about watching the student anymore, giving him a better chance to notice the problem.

[Rhonda66 0]

The JM said no way, don't do that no matter what. He said you don't have enough awareness as a student to pull that early and you could endanger others who are above you. I did pull at about 6K and he didn't pull until his regular altitude anyway, which is what I would expect. As long as you're open, I don't think the JM is going to care what altitude you pull at as far as his/her pulling altitude goes.
Rhonda

[pyke 0]

To address the hand signal question:

Quote

I wanted to do something to warn him, but I didn't know what to do

I don't know if anyone else was taught this (seeing as I had instruction in another country), but I was always told that "universal" skydiving hand signals were around. If you hold your fist in front of someones face, it means dump, but if you hold your fist against an open flat hand pointed up (kind of like a martial art bowing/praying gesture) then it means take caution/extra time when you dump.
Now, recently I was talking to two AFF instructors who were acting as "students" during a coach's training course and they were discussing one of the candidates' jumps. The point was brought up that coaches "are absolutely NOT allowed to direct a person to deploy", but I argued that if you saw something 'off' then you should be able to WARN someone that they should take caution/extra time when dumping. Both agreed with my point, but being the good instructors that they are...erred on the side of the USPA and went with "NO, regardless".
I guess my point is...I DON'T CARE WHO I AM JUMPING WITH...IF YOU SEE SOMETHING WRONG WITH MY CONTAINER IN FREEFALL....YOU BETTER BLOODY WARN ME!!!!
anyone else??
Kia Kaha,
Pyke
NZPF A - 2584

[Merrick 0]

Quote

"The middle finger?"

How about the middle finger followed by your index, middle, & ring finger in the shape of a "W"
Translation: "Fuck you, you signed the waiver!" LOL However, It's generally reserved for those flailing students!
"OMG there I was, thought I was going to die.. she walks in with a can of motoroil & jumpercables.."

[Grogs 0]

Quote

I don't know if anyone else was taught this (seeing as I had instruction in another country), but I was always told that "universal" skydiving hand signals were around. If you hold your fist in front of someones face, it means dump, but if you hold your fist against an open flat hand pointed up (kind of like a martial art bowing/praying gesture) then it means take caution/extra time when you dump.

I've never heard of/seen this. This is definitely not something covered in our AFF first-jump course. If you put a fist in my face, I'd probably assume you wanted to fight and punch you. The only hand signal we have is one finger in the person's face, which means wave-off and pull. If it's an emergency, or if extra care needs to be taken, the JM will most likely dump the student instead of taking the time to 'give him the finger'

Quote

Now, recently I was talking to two AFF instructors who were acting as "students" during a coach's training course and they were discussing one of the candidates' jumps. The point was brought up that coaches "are absolutely NOT allowed to direct a person to deploy", but I argued that if you saw something 'off' then you should be able to WARN someone that they should take caution/extra time when dumping. Both agreed with my point, but being the good instructors that they are...erred on the side of the USPA and went with "NO, regardless".

This is true. As a coach, the signal for the student to pull is to deploy your own chute. He's briefed on the ground that if he sees you deploy, he deploys. In reality though, if something like an open container happened, I'd probably still give the pull signal before I deployed, USPA be damned. Given the alternative between 'I don't know why he didn't pull, I did what I was supposed to do' and 'Why the #$%^ did you give him the pull signal, but at least he got down alive' I'll take the latter any day.

[Grogs 0]

Quote

How about the middle finger followed by your index, middle, & ring finger in the shape of a "W"
Translation: "Fuck you, you signed the waiver!" LOL However, It's generally reserved for those flailing students!

Hehe. I heard one I've never heard of this weekend. Hold your hand up with the thumb and pinky straight out and the middle 3 fingers curled upwards like you're holding a bowling ball. Translation: You should really think about taking up bowling instead. The funniest thing was one of our newer jumpers heard us talking about it and said 'Oh, that's what that meant when I saw that'

[Rhonda66 0]

in reply to: The funniest thing was one of our newer jumpers heard us talking about it and said 'Oh, that's what that meant when I saw that'
LMAO!
Rhonda