Zero tolerance hysteria

[Albatross 0]

I can't beleive that we are all sitting around debating what is good and bad for society. Geek had it on the nose: Good parents prevent drugs, guns, violence, teenage pregnancy, and all that other shit. If we are just grown up to take responsibility for our actions our live and our kids then the world will be a better place.
Think of raising a kid like a sky dive. The making it is fun. The first step is really hard. You funnel the exit and have to fight to make it go well. If you pay attention and hit your marks then the thing goes off with few problems. WHen there is a problem you take action and do something about it. Don't worry about it too long and don't wait for someone lese to fix it. PULL THE DAMN HANDLE and fix the problem not the symptom.
Ready, Set, GOOOOOOO
Albatross

[FallingMarc 0]

Ok, if all the guns in the world suddenly vanished, yes, nobody would get shot with a gun. BUT, passing a law saying nobody can have guns but the government(can you say "police state"?) will NOT make the guns go away. The people that commit crimes with guns are *already* criminals. They break laws. It's what they do. Making guns illegal will not stop criminals from getting guns. I wish some of these statistics showed how many lives were saved each year by legal gun owners defending their families from attackers...

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I don't own a gun, partially because I haven't figured out a *foolproof* way to keep it away from any children I may have in the future, while having it be useful in case of criminal intrusion.

Teach your kids about it! If it's not a big mystery, they won't have the urge to explore it! Teach them that guns kill, and to never point a gun at someone. Then take them to a range and let them shoot with you! Then, the gun ceases to be a toy, but becomes a tool. My dad owns a gun, and took me shooting when I was little. I never had access to the gun at home, but since I had been taught what it was, what it was for, and had a healthy respect for it, I had no urge to look for it or play with it. And I would never have even considered using it as a weapon.
Marc

[AggieDave 6]

Strangly enough, I read some statistics yesterday about how England's crime rate has absolutely sky rocketed since the extreme gun laws they have were inacted. Also, I was reading about how TX's crime rates were actually leveling out and dropping some since the CHL came about (CHL is the Conceal-Carry for handguns).
Truthfully, my opinion (yes, I know that opinions are like assholes...) is that extreme in either direction on this issue is the wrong thing. The no-gun-law types don't understand that that situation would lead to some very bad things. Same for the ban-all-guns types. There is a balance that must, but will never be achieved to the satisfaction of all the parties involved. Also, it isn't so much a gun law problem as a culture problem. Look at the Swiss every single man in that country has an issued to them assault rifle but there is nearly ZERO crime that is commited with it. Strange, huh?
AggieDave '02
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Blue Skies and Gig'em Ags!
BTHO t.u.

[MC208B 0]

Hey, Frank, have you had a few to many Molsons or LaBatts? You seem like one of those people that think that if the government takes care of me everything will be wonderful, oh joy......fuck!
As for us Americans and our gun views, death penalty etc...that's none of your fuckin business.
If it wasn't for America, the whole damn world would be saluting the swastika today, think about it. Hundreds of thousands of Americans died in WW2 so people like you can post your opinions on a forum like this.
Sorry, just getting a bit tired of people bashing the US. Guess it's time to shut up and jump.

[Billy 0]

Starting at the begging a this thread let me say this,, my "X' is a teacher,, and because of the friggin LAWYERS in the US discipline is out the window,, the chicken shit school boards and teachers are scared ta smack a whuffo kid for bein a prick,, and theres a lot a lazy ass parents out there that expect the schools to raise there kids,, guns! Shit they shouldn't be allowed ta reproduce!! Frank and Pammi (?) your lucky ta live in a place where ya feel safe,, I too often leave doors unlocked and key's in the car,, my folks tho have bars on the windows and door's, my sis carries a gun in her purse, my lil bro a shotgun loaded under the bed,, I shot 299 outta 300 with my .357 mag,, but sold it ta get a good camera ta take picts of my daughter when she was born,, I was an NRA instructor in all kinds a guns,, I been in EMS for over 20 years,, believe me,, humans don't need guns ta mess someone up if thats what they wanna do,, Oh and don't knock the Canadian's,, shit they died with us on the same side in WW 2,, I wanna post this while I'm thinkin of it,, think Wingie and the like will get a boost from it...
""This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing.
America: The Good Neighbor.
Widespread but only partial news coverage was given
recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from
Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television
commentator. What follows is the full text of his
trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional
Record:
"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the
Americans as the most generous and possibly the least
appreciated people on all the earth.
Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and
Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the
Americans who poured in billions of dollars and
forgave other billions in debts. None of these
countries is today paying even the interest on its
remaining debts to the United States.
When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956,
it was the Americans who propped it up, and their
reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets
of Paris. I was there. I saw it.
When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the
United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59
American communities were flattened by tornadoes.
Nobody helped.
The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped
billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now
newspapers in those countries are writing about the
decadent, warmongering Americans.
I'd like to see just one of those countries that
is gloating over the erosion of the United States
dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country
in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo
Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10?
If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the
International lines except Russia fly American Planes?
Why does no other land on earth even consider putting
a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese
technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German
technocracy, and you get automobiles.
You talk about American technocracy, and you find
men on the moon - not once, but several times --
and safely home again.
You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs
right in the store window for everybody to look at .
Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded.
They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless
they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American
dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.
When the railways of France, Germany and India
were breaking down through age, it was the Americans
who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and
the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an
old caboose. Both are still broke.
I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced
to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name
me even one time when someone else raced to the
Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside
help even during the San Francisco earthquake.
Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one
Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get
kicked around. They will come out of this thing with
their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled
to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating
over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of
those."
Stand proud, America! Wear it proudly!!
This is one of the best editorials that I have ever
read regarding the United States. It is nice that
one man realizes it. I only wish that the rest of the
world would realize it. We are always blamed for
everything, and never even get a thank you for the
things we do.

[spectre230 0]

[skyhawk 2]

On the article
I agree but lets remember the US is also one of the richest(i think it is THE but i dont wont to make a false claim) countrys in the world it also has a large population mostly wealthy (comparitivly) I can speak for my own country for the fact we have never to my nowledge taken from america infact we have been alongside sharing knowledge and men/women in both war and peace and going to the moon is impossible for us we dont have the economy to be able to support somehing like that. yes we should stop picking on the us but also remember that there are others countrys that give it all (australia going to east timor) even if what they can give is very little with little or no international recognition.
I think we should all remember the media is the basis of most of the evil in this world. All you ever see on the internet is bad things happening and these things never happened befor, oh wait they did Lets go back to 1901
Very little violence no chilren shooting up schools little rape and murder oh wait there was but as there was no form of mass media you never heard about what happened in your town let along in another country, how often does this stuff happen in your area?? not as often as the things on the news listen to the news all of this killing is happening all over the country and the world but being humans cause we are hearing about it we assume it is a daily occurence all around us.
Gun control is part of the answer but not in the way these antigun ppl are going at it. In australia know semi and automatic guns are baned (can you really tell me you want to go hunten with a ak 47 thats pretty much defeats the point) Partial control and education is the answer.
Also on the parents thing i admit im an arshole to authority figuires i will argue for hours on end with teachers this is not my parents fault they bought me up well it was the society i grew up in and me as a person. My friends also feel the same. We have to stop blaming the parents and accept it is society that molds us as well. Yer there are some crap parents but there are also fuckhead youth.
In a population of billions there are bad to be a couple of bad eggs
Welcome to the infimation revelilition, if you dont like it dont complain to others, thats providing information

[skyhawk 2]

jeez i need a chill pill
fuck it im goen skydiven see you all on tuesday

[SpeedRacer 1]

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If it wasn't for America, the whole damn world would be saluting the swastika today, think about it. Hundreds of thousands of Americans died in WW2 so people like you can post your opinions on a forum like this.

Actually, the lion's share of the credit for defeating Germany goes to the Soviet Union, not the USA. They did the vast majority of the fighting and dying in the war against Nazi Germany.
Not that this has anything to do with whether or not America's gun laws are correct or whether or not Frank has the right to speak his mind, too.
Speed Racer
"De plaene!! De plaene!!"

[mikefarmer 0]

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I certainly believe that there is a prolem with gun violence in our society.

I think that the problem lies in plain old violence. I see no reason to discriminate between violence with a gun, car, chainsaw, hook knife (sends chills down the spine, huh?), chainsaw, the bath tub, as evidenced in TX this week...etc...
Mike
I ponder on this dangerous, but irresistible pastime- Pink Floyd

[mikefarmer 0]

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(can you really tell me you want to go hunten with a ak 47 thats pretty much defeats the point)

I don't think you get the "point". "Hunten" has nothing to do with it. Controlling one's own destiny, and not having o be "protected" by the police, or army, or whoever is the point. And although I cant afford one at the moment, I have heard that the 7.62X39mm is an excellent deer round...Bring it on paint throwers!!!
Mike
I ponder on this dangerous, but irresistible pastime- Pink Floyd

[MC208B 0]

Yes, you are correct in that the Soviets had a great deal to do with bringing Germany down at the END of the war. However, if the US government had sat on its ass and did nothing, i.e. "neutral", Hitler's troops would have taken out Great Britain and would not have had to fight on several fronts and would have more than likely have defeated the Soviets also.
My point is I am just tired of other countries and their citizens ragging on the US and OUR problems.
And yes, everyone has the right to express their opinions, even Frank!

[cloud9 0]

I'm not going to respond to any one post because there are so many misinformed and so many others who just simply ignore the truth. But this will most likely hit everyone somewhere. I know many of you already know the following, but those that don't
1. Total falacy that home owners are more likely to be shot, or shoot a family member then protect themselves.
I was a police officer for 11 years I KNOW THAT IS NOT TRUE. the truth is the media does not report saves. Its just not news worthy to say Mrs. Jones pulled a gun and ran a burgler from her home today. But it happens every day.
2. You don't need guns! This statement actually pisses me off. Where do any of you get the authority to tell the rest of us what we need? You don't need cars you want them you like them and your willing to sacrifice your kids and mine for the convience of owning them. If you have to drive to work move closer to your job! You don't need alcohol which kills more people every year then guns ever thought about. In fact a lot of guns deaths are caused by drunks and drugs. But again your willing to sacrifice the over 100,000 people who die every year so you can have your drink. You don't need swimming pools more children die in swimming pools every year then die from guns. The list goes on. You don't want a gun so you have decided I don't need one. Your lucky the rest of us don't think the same way you do or you wouldn't have cars, alcohol, swimming pools, cigaretts and a lot of other luxuries that we are all willing to sacrifice humans for. The beauty of a free society is you don't have to need it! If your a law abiding decent working person you can have it just because you want it. Who needs a corvette? If you want one you have my blessings.
3. Those of you who said you won't own guns because of your kids, that is your right. Now give me mine. You also said you would kill anyone that killed your kids with a gun. Well the leading cause of death in persons under 18 is car wrecks. So I don't think its the gun you really need to concern yourself with. In your home you have medication, poisons, pools, cars, alcohol, cigarettes, electricity, gas, fires, and knives do I need to continue. Any of these will kill your kids if not handled properly. How do you do that? Educate, but you think I'm wrong to educate my kids about guns?
4. Humans have been finding ways to kill one another for thousands of years you can't stop that by taking away guns!!
5. We all know there will be acceptable deaths in our society. We hate to admitt it but its true. The 50,000 plus auto deaths evey year don't stop us from driving. Don't lie you know its going to happen but would you give up your car right now? You could save over 50,000 people! I didn't think so. You could save over 20,000 just by reducing the speed limit to 25 mph. Will you do that? I didn't think so. But your on a self rightous thone to save 1500 from guns becasue you don't like guns! You don't deserve the freedoms you have.
6. We should do everything with in reason to save lives but not at the cost of living in a bubble. Not at the cost of freedom.
7. Our fore fathers fought and died for the right to bear arms, as well as be free. Free does not mean debt free. It means you have a right to life. (you can protect yourself and family) You have a right to liberty (no one can tell you where you have to live work etc.) and you have a right to pursue happiness.( that does not mean you will find it).
8. If you think people should only have what they need then do it all the way. Dont take the things you don't need take the things no one needs. Be honest, cars, boats, pools etc. By the way there is a government that feels exactly like you its called communisum!
9 Right now violent crime is down about 30 percent. Media coverage is up over 400 percent. The media controls you and you allow it.
10. Finally I make no apologies for my rant. I stand head high, chest out and thank God, country and all the men and women who sacrificed to give us all these freedoms.

[Michele 1]

WOW!
There are two things I want to offer:
1. The first recorded, and most lethal, attack on a school occurred in New York (I think). 37 dead. 2 teachers and 35 children, age ranges from 5-16.
Never heard of it? 1927, bombing by a mad father. His children died as well. They weren't supposed to be there.
2. Freedoms, like any treasure, must be guarded and fought for. There have been many deaths fighting for my freedom; I will gladly lay down my life in a fight for your freedom. My freedom includes the choice to own a gun or not. Whether I agree with that or not, that is one of the freedoms earned in blood by my countrymen and women. My freedom includes the ability to make a choice for myself as to how I will live my life. It does not give me the right to tell you how to live yours. Freedom gives choices. Freedom, in its' most base concept, cannot tell us which choice to make.
(Michele crawls back into her hidey-hole to watch the rest of this conversation - wishing everyone bleau cieux and perfect canopies)

[spectre230 0]

[PhillyKev 0]

I agree with you. Living in a stable democracy obviously has its advantages. But there have been several instances in the past century of a real possibility of revolution or some sort of civil war in the US, as well as invasion by foreign forces. You never know what's going to happen. I'm not some para-military guy living in the woods training for Armageddon, but I do have a gun. And one of the primary reasons is that you just never know when it will be necessary to use it to protect yourself or your freedom.

[Jeji 0]

OK, I got it!!!!!! It seems to me that most owners of hand guns feel that to keep their guns locked up in one place with ammo in a seperate hiding spot is the safest deterent from little hands, however it also defeats the purpose of defending your home from late night "visitors". Who has time to fumble around the house unlocking cabinets and such when there is someone breaking into your house??? DOG OWNERS!!!! I live in a fairly safe community for 9 mths. of the year. However when all of the tourists show up in the summer, the crime rate dramatically increases. Nothing serious, missing pieces of fence, outdoor light fixtures and all of that misc. dumb stuff. But since I got my Lab 6 years ago I have been alerted to any and every potential problem on the entire block. Just got to thinking of this last night. My hubbie was out with some friends pretty late and my dogs (Morrigan a 6 yr old Lab/Dobie and Nemo a 4 mth Mastiff) started their late night patrols. About an hour after I was in bed both poochies started to flip out, I mean they went ballistic!!!! Woke the kids up and everything!!! I have no doubt that if there was a potential problem I had time to get my bearings. However once Nemo is full grown, I'd think you would have to be pretty doped up to think he'd let you pass him at a door, window etc. So my solution... get some really big dogs!!!!! Just a thought!!!! Never heard of a kid taking a dog to school on a rampage???!!!!
Jeji

[PhillyKev 0]

Now if you could just train your dog to load your gun and bring it to you, you'll be all set :-)