stayhigh 2 #51 December 4, 2014 Was RSL used before the 3-rings?Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #52 December 4, 2014 stayhighWas RSL used before the 3-rings? The Stevens system variety certainly was. Been there; did it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dpreguy 14 #53 December 4, 2014 Both of you guys know more than I do. Meet you guys at PIA in '15? I would get to meet the "legend" Wendy and the "inventor", Jerry. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigBearCards 0 #54 December 5, 2014 The slider was invented by J. Floyd Smith in 1948. It was adapted for use on squares by Greg Yarbenet of Erie, PA. He couldn't patent it because Floyd Smith already had, back in '51. Now the real question to ask here is WHY the ram air canopy manufacturers didn't start using it sooner. :o) reference http://works-words.com/NSM-WIKI/WP/wordpress/wiki/skydiving/equipment/patents/1948-the-slider/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fall0ut 3 #55 December 5, 2014 Don't know if anybody posted this link from current issue of "Parachutist" already.. covers quite a bit http://parachutistonline.com/feature/game-changers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumper03 0 #56 December 9, 2014 DeyanMy main canopy release system is 3 ring ( as we already know, he invented that ). I need to go back through all my books and documents, but I remember reading about a 3 ring release system being used in the late 1920's, early 1930's to release instrument packages from weather balloons. It was later adopted to use on parachute risers. I'll see if I can find that reference later this evening. JumpScars remind us that the past is real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #57 December 9, 2014 Fall0utDon't know if anybody posted this link from current issue of "Parachutist" already.. covers quite a bit http://parachutistonline.com/feature/game-changers Good list. My only comment to the author is that he mentions only the slider as the reefing system to tame the opening shock of ram-air canopies, failing to mention that ropes-n-rings were standard on canopies like the Strato Star before sliders superseded them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #58 December 11, 2014 Andy9o8***Don't know if anybody posted this link from current issue of "Parachutist" already.. covers quite a bit http://parachutistonline.com/feature/game-changers Good list. My only comment to the author is that he mentions only the slider as the reefing system to tame the opening shock of ram-air canopies, failing to mention that ropes-n-rings were standard on canopies like the Strato Star before sliders superseded them. ................................................................................ Yeah! Ropes-and-rings were adapted from round cargo chutes and ejection seat technology. I made about 50 jumps on early Strato-Clouds that had ropes-and-rings. They were a BITCH to pack. My fingers bled every time I closed them. The only up-side to ropes-and-rings was the soft openings even after the Diamond Track. Other manufacturers experimented with a variety of other reefing systems: hydraulic. The only alternative that made any sense to me was an X-slider connected to the pilot-chute via long bridle. Some style competitors used double-length bridles to soften openings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rapaz 0 #59 December 15, 2014 The Line over release toggle used in BASE jumping was a Mark Hewitt idea after hit a building with a line over, was research and develop by Marta Empinotti, Jimmy Pouchert and Todd Shoebottam. Probably one of the first models of MARDS or Skyhook was also invented by Mark Hewitt, used and tested on the Sorcerer BASE container, a system to deploy a reserve using the main like PC. May be Im wrong, let me know Nicolas Lopez Aerorigging Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aliencico 0 #60 December 16, 2014 With all my due respect to all the Persons who have posted about AAD, I must inform you that The Doronin Brothers (three brothers) invented the World´s first AAD. Please, let me explain You: In 1936, after the death of 2 famous soviet parachutists, Tamara Ivanova, and Lyuba Berlin, the USSR Government issued a prize for an Automatic Opener for Parachutes. The Commission reviewed more than 300 inventions, winning Doronin´s device. It was called PPD-1, and entered in service with the VDV (Soviet Parachute Forces) in 1938. During the Second World War the Doronin Brothers put in service a lot of devices relating Parachute openers, cargo devices, and a large etcetera.( For example, the first canopy Quick release for Static-line paratropers, and the first canopy release for airdrop cargoes, between other 30 inventions with other soviet engineers, like the first drogue...Yes, the same drogue that Mr. Strong brought to the USA after made contact with Soviet Smokejumpers in early ´80s). The PPD-1 had problems with the straight arming pin, so the designers replaced it for a flexible one in PPD-2. In 1941 a very good engineer called Leonid Savichev designed the PAS-1, introducing, for the first time in the World, an Aneroid Capsule system. Thank to this feature, the jumper could jump out of an airplane without became worried about the pilot was flying at the correct altitude... Higher or lower, The device would activate at the predetermined Pressure... So, like a rudimentary CYPRES, but 50 years earlier. In 1949 the USSR Government, afraid of these 4 great designers competency, ordered Savichev join Doronin´s factory, now called 2MPZ (www.2mpz.ru), and issued a new requeriment for automatic openers in order to replace all the others. From these orders were designed the following devices: PPD-10, the last chronometric device from Doronin´s. capable of freefall up to 10 seconds KAP-1, designed for the Soviet Air Force Requeriments KAP-2, designed for the VDV requeriments. KAP-3, designed for a multipurpose device. AD-3, a chronometric device for mass dropping, and emergency parachutes. So, I must report to Your Person that When Mr Snyder designed the Sentinel, there were a second generation of AAD, all fully operational, and working, from civilian weekend parachutists to all the first Cosmonauts...All of them relied on Doronin and Savichev inventions. KAP-3 was a Second generation Soviet device, entered in Active duty in 1949, and was replaced in 1970 for the PPK-U System. Currently, the PPK-U System is being replaced for the SKIFF. Thanking the time, and effort done to understand my poor English, and hoping to have expanded your mind, Blue Skies, and safe Skydives! Juan Fraile-Nuez Military Parachute Rigger (ret.) Spain, Europe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #61 December 17, 2014 by side pack do you mean flat pack ? When did that fall out of favor ? The flat pack always made sense to me and was twice as fast to do vs todays style.......smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 425 #62 December 17, 2014 jumpwallyby side pack do you mean flat pack ? When did that fall out of favor ? The flat pack always made sense to me and was twice as fast to do vs todays style....... Yes, flat packing. Very few people do it these days and it's not really taught to the noobs any more.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quagmirian 40 #63 December 17, 2014 Flat packing is still used in the UK quite a lot. Some clubs mandate it for static line or even all student kit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aliencico 0 #64 December 20, 2014 ...like the first drogue...Yes, the same drogue that Mr. Strong brought to the USA after made contact with Soviet Smokejumpers in early ´80s... The first drogue system was proposed by Gleb Kotelnikov. In 1940, Igor Glushkov designed the first operational drogue, and Stanislav Karamishev designed the lock between drogue and Harness/Container System... ...But was the great engineer Nikolay Lobanov who designed the drogue system as we use today. Lobanov was a very good parachute engineer and designed the "square canopy", instead the normal "round. This particular change provided no need to anti-inversion nets, easier construction, and a higher envelope at opening speed. Thanking the time, and effort done to understand my poor English, and hoping to have expanded your mind, Blue Skies, and safe Skydives! Juan Fraile-Nuez Military Parachute Rigger (ret.) Spain, Europe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
highspeeddirt 0 #65 December 21, 2014 Manley Butler "invented " the first mini 3 ring system as part of Para Flite's "Swift" harness/ container in 1981 or 82. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #66 December 21, 2014 highspeeddirtManley Butler "invented " the first mini 3 ring system as part of Para Flite's "Swift" harness/ container in 1981 or 82. Manly also holds the US Patent (5,890,678) for the BAT Sombrero slider. The patent also credits him as the inventor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keithbar 1 #67 December 21, 2014 *** " bat sombrero slider " that's one i haven't heard of. more info please i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
breakoff 0 #68 December 21, 2014 Troy Widgery tube stows Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #69 December 21, 2014 Manly has two versions of 'sliders' that he puts on his high end high speed/load rounds. The original is a hemispherical shaped fabric and mesh slider that has a ring for each suspension line around it's circumference. It's pulled up and flaked into the canopy and wind channel as the round is flaked. Controls opening and keeps lines in proper position. Haven't read the sale pitch lately but I expect it eliminates partial inversion malfunctions. On a somewhat lower price point version the slider is flat circular rather than hemispherical. I service several pilots with these and usually recommend one for my heavier pilot customers. http://www.butlerparachutes.com/ click on personnel parachutes. Strong had a round out in 1995-96 called the Aerostar. It used a spider slider that was not connected to anything (i.e. PC Bridle like Para Foils) It was prevented from coming up to the skirt of the canopy by short sections of line sewn between to suspension lines. It again would restrict spreading of the canopy until pushed down. This canopy was also deployed in a free sleeve. The three ring photo in the Parachutist article is too new. The original three rings harness rings were just a round ring, not a slotted piece of hardware like shown.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiggerLee 61 #70 December 22, 2014 Aerostar or Starlight? Also if I recall the original Mini ring system also used a round ring equivalent to a RW-2. They stretched. You had to replace them with a heavy gauge ring also round. I used to have one around some where. I think it was on an early Mirage, two pin vertical internal, that I saw the replacement rings but it might have been a swift. Looked like it had been milled rather then forged. LeeLee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #71 December 22, 2014 Oops, I always get it wrong. Aerosport with a free sleeve. (Aerostar is the post acid mesh phantom) See this thread. NOT talking about Starlight main. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=3970385;page=2;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25; Manual was on line at Strong and other places but couldn't find it fast. My copy is on my other computer.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #72 December 23, 2014 RiggerLeeAerostar or Starlight? Also if I recall the original Mini ring system also used a round ring equivalent to a RW-2. They stretched. You had to replace them with a heavy gauge ring also round. I used to have one around some where. I think it was on an early Mirage, two pin vertical internal, that I saw the replacement rings but it might have been a swift. Looked like it had been milled rather then forged. Lee ................................................................................. Mini 3-Rings were introduced by Para-Flite in 1981. Para-Flite used a specialized (machined?) round harness ring. It looked like an RW-2 ring, but was thicker and harder. A few other manufacturers tried to copy the Swift harness, but suffered bent RW-2 rings. By the mid-1980s, Parachutes de France had introduced slotted mini-rings. The Parachutes de France harness tings were as thick as RW-8 harness rings. Para-Flite's Swift harness-container contained a few other innovations. For example, the reserve container included 2 pins, but they were spaced vertically (like a Racer) versus the horizontal spacing on most previous reserves. Most Swifts were made under sub-contract by the Annex. Para-Flite went on the sell a variety of military free-fall rigs with vertical, 2-pin reserve containers: MT-1XXXXXXXXX, etc. A few years later (early 1980s), the Annex introduced the Rapid Transit, Mirage harness/container also with a vertical, 2-pin reserve container, but the difference was that the pins laid against the wearer's spine. That did not work consistently with wimpy MA-1 springs, so (circa 1990) the Annex issued a service bulletin requiring them to be updated with outboard pins. Meanwhile, the Anenx had developed later Mirages (e.g. Lady Astra) with more conventional outboard, vertical, 2-pin reserve containers. During the late 1980s, they also licensed National to build 2-pin Mirages. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
highspeeddirt 0 #73 December 23, 2014 manleys mini 3 ring had a round ring that was equivalent to an RW 2 ring EXCEPT that it had the thickness of a big ring. people in the field copied it except they actually used rw 2 rings (thinner) and THAT resulted in stretching. the original mini 3 ring did not stretch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiggerLee 61 #74 December 23, 2014 What kind of ring was used on the first of the vertical two pin internal mirage? I want to say that they had the heavy RW-2 on them. At least I think that's were I heard the bending story. But I'm not sure if he was referring to that rig or to the story of that peace of hard in general. Who built or tried to build rigs with thin RW-2's? LeeLee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #75 December 24, 2014 RiggerLeeWhat kind of ring was used on the first of the vertical two pin internal mirage? I want to say that they had the heavy RW-2 on them. At least I think that's were I heard the bending story. But I'm not sure if he was referring to that rig or to the story of that peace of hard in general. Who built or tried to build rigs with thin RW-2's? Lee .................................................................................. I vaguely remember most of the Mirages being built with slotted RW-1, RW-7 or RW-8 harness rings. I do not know if any Mirages were built with the wrong (RW-2 sized) harness rings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
