The tandem no-man's land!

[Emma 0]

Ok, we have the standard definitions:
whuffo, skydiver, skygod...etc
Where in this does a one-off tandem person sit? Are they no longer a whuffo? But surely they are not a skydiver? But...hang on, does this all sound a bit elitist and wanky?
Another contentious point - are you a tandem PASSENGER or a tandem STUDENT?
This isn't a very nice point to make, but i've heard some tandem masters (who are really nice guys!) refer to doing tandems as 'lugging carcases'. Quality.
Wotcha reckon?
Emma

[PalmettoTiger 1]

Passenger/student depends on what the individual came to get. I was a tandem passenger once and a student 4 times. And as for the 'lugging carcasses' bit, I would just chalk it up to self-deprecating humor, or a bit of faux nonchalant bravado. (hey, three Romance language words in a row!) Unless of course the TMs you overheard are pessimistic wankers.
Blues, squares,
PTiger

[freeflyguy 0]

I did my first tandem the other day. I had extra handles, so the master could have slept through the free fall and deployment. Glad he didn't but I think that is more of a passenger than a student. And Nah, I don't think you could be called a whuffo anymore. You know the feeling.

[mountainman 0]

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And Nah, I don't think you could be called a whuffo anymore. You know the feeling.

This is correct! If you think about it, the def of a "whuffo" stems from "Whuffo you jump outta dem planes?". After doing a tandem jump, you know EXACTLY why people jump outta planes. Hence, eliminating all question and the title of "whuffo".
Case closed.MORE SKYDIVING PHOTOS ADDED!!!
http://home.woh.rr.com/brandonandlaura/

[BenW 0]

Mountie,
I *sorta* agree with you and *sorta* don't! There's a whole WORLD of difference between jumping out yourself and having someone else do the jumping. Jumping out yourself is AWESOME!
I'm not being derogatory to people who have done 1 tandem, BUT they've really gotta do it themselves to be a skydiver....
My exceedingly small 1/2 penny! B.

[Emma 0]

So..if you've done your one (tandem) jump, are you technically a skydiver? Surely there's more to it than that????
I work at my DZ booking in the tandem passengers, they ALL say they're gonna come back and do a course, but we hardly EVER see them again! Kind of pisses me off actually.
E

[Grogs 0]

I think it's all in the person's attitude. Are they just out to do one tandem so they can check it off their 'things to do before I die list?' or are they planning to do it more and they want to get everything they can out of it. I think probably 95%+ of all tandems are just passengers ('hauling beef' is the expression around our DZ) and they just want to jump out, enjoy the ride, and not be burdened by things like the mechanics of a Ram-Air parachute or how to turn and land it. On the other hand, a person who thinks they might want to do more than one jump and wants to learn and experience as much about skydiving as possible during the jump is a student.

[Donna 0]

I think in some ways that if they don't come back again for more than they are still kind of a whuffo as they don't really get "whuf fo you jump out of those planes?" because if they did... they'd be back!! If they got the same feeling we did and understood that passion how could they not do it again? And again and again and again!!!
Blue ones,
D

[Dutchboy 0]

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I think in some ways that if they don't come back again for more than they are still kind of a whuffo as they don't really get "whuf fo you jump out of those planes?" because if they did... they'd be back!! If they got the same feeling we did and understood that passion how could they not do it again? And again and again and again!!!

You're assuming that they don't want to come back. I know lots of people who would love to pick it up as a hobby, but have other things preventing them from doing so. Usually it is money, followed by strong objections from family, or a schedule that doesn't really allow it at the moment.
I think you are a skydiver if you've ever jumped. You meet the FAA definition of skydiving on the one jump, so you must be a skydiver.
The Dutchboy
http://www.geocities.com/ppolstra

[Ric 0]

If i drive a RS Cosworth does it make me a rally driver? NO. They have sampled the goods at a small level and should not be classed as skydivers. A skydiver has the passion and skill to do the whole lot from getting up at 7.30am buzzing to get the DZ to coming home knackered and ranting to your mates about the 5 jumps you just did. Respect for making anykind of jump though.

[gus 1]

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If i drive a RS Cosworth does it make me a rally driver? NO. They have sampled the goods at a small level and should not be classed as skydivers. A skydiver has the passion and skill to do the whole lot from getting up at 7.30am buzzing to get the DZ to coming home knackered and ranting to your mates about the 5 jumps you just did. Respect for making anykind of jump though.

I'm shocked, words of wisdom from Ric! Has someone else hijacked his username? Probably.
Well whoever it was was right. I've driven a little Formula Ford around Brans Hatch but it hardly makes me a racing driver. More than anything being a 'skydiver' is about what's going on up here (tapping temple with forefinger), being passionate about the sport and having the commitment to skydive, whatever it takes. That doesn't have to mean living at the dz and not washing to save money for the next jump ticket (Screamer? really been skydiving have they?
Gus

[Donna 0]

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You're assuming that they don't want to come back. I know lots of people who would love to pick it up as a hobby, but have other things preventing them from doing so. Usually it is money, followed by strong
objections from family, or a schedule that doesn't really allow it at the moment.

True in a few instances but lots of times those things are just an excuse. If you want it bad enough, you will find a way. And I wouldn't call it a hobby. I'd call it a way of life. Blue 11111,
D

[mountainman 0]

To me, it seems like there are two arguements here. 1) After a tandem are you a skydiver?? NO. 2) After a tandem are you still a whuffo? NO.
It seems like there is "no man's land" between the two. I am one of these people who you are all talking about, so I can speak with SOME knowing.
I would not consider myself a skydiver because I have no clue how to pack, how to fly my body, how to land a canopy or any other actual "how-to" things, except what I've read in books/internet/etc.
However, I don't consider myself a "whuffo" either. I know VERY WELL why all of you jump out of planes--it's the best feeling in the world!I personally feel like there is the "in between" stage of a whuffo and a skydiver, because I'm in it. I guess it's just called a "skydiving student".
Whew....I'm spent!
MORE SKYDIVING PHOTOS ADDED!!!
http://home.woh.rr.com/brandonandlaura/

[cdunham 0]

Um, I would cross-reference this discussion to the other thread on "skygods".
I know I've called whuffos the "walking dead" on this forum, but that doesn't mean I think I'm above them in some way. It's more a pity thing As far as tandem baggage... er... passengers go, I have a great deal of respect for people that are willing to take the chance, and do what is really an anti-intuitive act, looking for the thrill of living. They have really been somewhere, and are probably better people for it, than those that refuse to, won't even give it a chance.
That they don't come back is tragic, but understandable. This is a very difficult sport to ramp up in, unless, like most of us, you fall head over heels for it, and can't not do it.
Most people I know that have one and only one skydive have also done a ton of other new and different things that I haven't. Maybe I'm worse off because all I want to do is jump.
Wait, did I say that? I wouldn't call them skydivers, just like I wouldn't call myself one when I wasn't doing it on a regular basis, but I also wouldn't call them whuffos. I do admire them, tho.
Carl
---
No man is a failure who is enjoying life.
--William Feather

[Donna 0]

Nice post, Carl. You, too, Mountain. Maybe we need to come up with a new term?
I think even in tandem land there is a difference. My friend and I did a tandem on the same day. She had a blast. It was an experience she will never forget and that she truly loved. But it was over and her life went on pretty much as before. She does not walk around staring at the sky, wondering if the holes between the clouds are big enough. She does not automatically tune in to the sound of any aircraft overhead. She does not subscribe to any skydiving material. She has no desire to read more about it or learn more about it or to ever do it again. I, on the other hand, have never been the same again. I went up one person and came down another. I did 2 more tandems that summer (AFP type one) and was much like Mountain all winter as I waited for AFF to start last spring. I walked around with my head in the clouds and dreamed of jumping all the time. So maybe we need 2 new terms. One for the person who did it once, got a taste, but has no desire to continue and one for those who did it and plan to eventually do it again. Either way, I think everyone who has ever done it is in the 'fortunate people' category. (Except maybe those who didn't live through it.)
Blue 1111,
D

[Cacophony 0]

I think that you are considered a passenger on a tandem unless it is a tandem progression, then you are a student. I have often wondered where you would draw the line between a skydiver and a non-skydiver. I think that if you have done it several of times and you plan on continuing in the near future then you are a skydiver.
Safe landings,
Alex D-23912

[FallnAngel 0]

Like Donna, I went the tandem progression route. I definitely do not think that a single tandem jump makes you a skydiver...I know I was not. But I *was* no longer a whuffo...that I do know.
As for the tandem student vs. tandem-baggage-carcass-meat-titty baby-whatever...I think tandem student is the best description, because even if they never jump again, they learned something; that makes them a student. 'Course I was pretty much worthless on my first tandem (my brain decided to stay nice & safe on the bench back in the plane ), but I was still a student because I learned some things about skydiving and I learned things about myself.
Blue Skies,
Karen

[Shark 0]

In theory, for lack of a better word, 1 jump does not make a skydiver. When I learned to fly I did not consider myself a pilot until I soloed (sp?). And you are probably not a *skydiver* until a) you enter AFF and land your own parachute. b) graduate AFF and are able to jump solo. By graduating AFF you are demonstrating that you can jumpmaster yourself as with a student pilot that has been cleared to solo. Whether it's flying or falling, you are using your *control* surfaces. The only people I consider skydivers are those that continue to jump; that includes those that jump once a month and the more frequent flyers who do up to 10 a day plus. Personally, it's up to you whether you consider yourself a skydiver with one jump, tandem or AFF.

[cloud9 0]

If you get in a car and ride around the track with Jeff Gordon are you a race car driver?
If you sit the right seat in an airplane and ride down with the plane are you a pilot?
If you ride on the back of a motorcycle are you a bike rider?
I don't think so, you now have an experience but what you do with that experiece is what counts!! A one jump wonder is not a skydiver. However, many of them have it in thier blood and they will be skydivers when the time is right.
Tandems in many parts of the country have become little more then amuzement rides. A bunch of kids get together to ride the worlds tallest roller coaster! Don't get me wrong it has introduced a lot of people to skydiving and made much needed money for drop zones but its still just a ride. For the first time jumper. For those of you who have made a tandem and then continued or plan to continue then count yourself among the skydivers. But most will just go back to Six Flags.
bleau skies

[mountainman 0]

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For those of you who have made a tandem and then continued or plan to continue then count yourself among the skydivers

Thanks cloud!!MORE SKYDIVING PHOTOS ADDED!!!
http://home.woh.rr.com/brandonandlaura/

[Albatross 0]

I am supprised that none of you have gotten to the heart of the issue. Some people have touched on it and seem to be searching for it. Being a Skydiver is a state of mind. A non-skydiver or wuffo sees a James bond stunt and thinks wow cool effects. A skydiver thinks I want to try that. Skydivers look around and see a blue sky not as a day for the beach but a day to jump. Skydivers understand that life is for the living and that adrealine is the best drug on the planet. If you jump even once and come down with that attitude, that frame of mind then I will gladly count you as a skydiver. However, if you soemhow jump alot and have lost the passion and the mindset (some TMs) then you have stopped being a skydiver and have become a Tandem Driver. So welcome all of you with one S/L, Tandem or AFF you may be student skydivers but you are skydivers all the same.
Fly Free, Fly fast, Fly together
Albatross

[wingnut 0]

albatross,
ya hit the nail right on the head!!!!!!

"if dreams are like movies, then memories are like films about ghosts"-counting crows

[Patkat 0]

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And you are probably not a *skydiver* until a) you enter AFF and land your own parachute. b) graduate AFF and are able to jump solo.

Wait a second, Shark - I never entered AFF, never mind graduated - I was a static line student - and *ALL* my jumps were solo!
Well, not all solo - in the later jumps one practices relative work fundamentals with a JM - and I don't mean to sound too aggressive here - the beer must be talking. Funny, I've never seen the beer type so well....
Anyway, to bring up a point about the original thread topic - I thing that all tandem students are students, even if they think they're just on the ride of the week. Why? Because they have to learn something to make it from 13,000 to 0 AGL without killing themselves and their tandem instructor.
And lastly, may I suggest the moniker "How-fo" for 1st-time jumpers - to imply that they know *why* we jump and now wonder how we do what we do in the air.
-blues - Patkat

[lazerq3 0]

The way I looked at it for me was that I didnt really feel or consider myself a skydiver until I completed APF. Reason being is that the way I looked at it is that you can go to school to be a Doctor,,, however your not considered a doctor until you graduate. Thats just how I looked at for me though, but another thing is that if you only did one jump and that was it!!! just one.... then I think the correct term would be "I WAS a skydiver" not I AM a skydiver becuase the way I see it is that you have to be jumping more than once to use a current fraise like AM. I cant see some one being 30 years old having made one jump in 1984 and saying to someone "yeah I'm a skydiver" Anyway thats just my take on it. TO each there own.
jason

[des 2]

don't think that categories are really necessary.is it cool to be able to say "i am a skydiver"?who really gives a shit.
i was a skydiver once,never missed a weekend,or boogie for 3 or 4 years,now i am ,as albatross correctly put it ,a tandem driver,and love every jump i do.(can do fun jumps for free anytime i like ,but usually don,t bother),tandem students/passengers have my total respect,they are trusting someone they've known 5 or 10 mins completely,and jumped from a plane,they are NOT whuffos.
the attitude of some tm's that they are trying to kill you,really jacks me off,they are people doing the best they can,usually with minimal instruction,and if you can't deal with expected mistakes,DON'T DO TANDEMS!.
i get abigger buzz from tandem reactions than i ever got from a completed big way ,multi point 4 way,or a successful tight demo.
i think anyone who jumps from a plane,tandem,aff,s/l ,deserves respect,1jump or 30,000 jumps,it doesn't matter,because that 1st one is the biggie,
everyone remembers that one.classification is unnecessary.
just my humble opinion.
des
mountainman,best wishes to you and your wife.love your attitude.see you somewhere,sometime in that big blue sky.