riggerrob 643 #1 September 30, 2014 This related to speculation about the recent tandem accident in Cape Cod. I answered: "once" to my own poll. I was doing tandems out of a cargo-door Cessna 206. I got one ass cheek off the door sill when I felt the seat-belt. Hauled my ass (and my student's ass) back inside the plane. Removed the seat-belt and exited on the second pass. Caveat: Lawyers are free to quote this thread as long as they pay me royalties. Royalties start with video-tape of them going three rounds of "smash mouth" with another lawyer. They are not allowed to harm para-legals in the process. They are not allowed to harm legal assistants in the process. They ate not allowed to harm legal secretaries in the process. They are not allowed to harm hired-guns in the process. They are not allowed to harm law students in the process. They are not allowed to delegate ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 426 #2 September 30, 2014 I consider removing my belt at the prescribed altitude part of my "never forget" list, right along with gear checks before boarding, handle checks before exit, etc. In fact, I spend the climb-out monitoring altitude with my hand on the buckle, ready to take the belt off as soon as allowed. For me personally, I want to be ready to bail at any moment, especially at low altitude should it be necessary. On a side note, at my home DZ we jump Otters and Caravans and most of the year it's warm enough that we want the door open after getting to a safe climb altitude. Part of our routine procedure includes the folks who open the door confirming all belts are off before doing so. The door is not opened until a thumbs up is given by the jumpers confirming belts are off.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #3 September 30, 2014 Good habit Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpsalot-2 3 #4 September 30, 2014 Somewhat related is being aware on every exit of slop seat belts laying on the floor in front of the door, and stowing them out of the way, for anyone after me. Once I saw a student re-buckling the seat belt at the end of the bench right in front of the door. I nicely mentioned NEVER EVER.Life is short ... jump often. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SansSuit 1 #5 September 30, 2014 A number of years ago, we had a young lady attempt a naked hop-n-pop. She was sitting on a bench very close to the door and neglected to disengage her single-point seat belt before exit. She made it out the door but not much further. She bounced around a bit before she was hauled back in the PAC. She received a knot on the head and rode the aircraft down. She did complete the jump another day. Side note: one of the people who hauled her back in the plane was a newer jump named Nick Batsch.Peace, -Dawson. http://www.SansSuit.com The Society for the Advancement of Naked Skydiving Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JeffCa 0 #6 September 30, 2014 My cousin's father's sister's son is me. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedundantRigger 0 #7 September 30, 2014 Some years ago now. I was last one out. Seatbelt was quite long. I was clear of the fuselage ,dangling. Cut myself free using a hook-knife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
richwilk 2 #8 September 30, 2014 It happens. Sitting at the door of a caravan, doing a tandem (had around 10000 tandems at this point). Something happened and changed my routine. Forgot about it, sitting exit, hanging from under the plane. Was about the disconnect the restraint (lift buckle) and pulled back in by camera people. Have a routine and if something changes it, triple check and be sure. Distractions are a part of the scenario. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #9 September 30, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD2D83WOa4k&feature=youtu.be Is this what were talking about..CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #10 September 30, 2014 triggerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD2D83WOa4k&feature=youtu.be Is this what were talking about. .......................................................... Yes! Thanks for providing video. Why are those red straps so long? How do they prevent skydivers from flailing around the cabin? How do long straps prevent disastrous shifts in balance? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #11 September 30, 2014 The restraint's vary in length.... don't know the reasons for the idea behind the design.I can only assume to limit the amount of forward travel in the event of an aircraft incident. Edited to add! With 14 jumpers weight shift is limited as we are packed in like sardines..CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #12 September 30, 2014 triggerThe restraint's vary in length.... don't know the reasons for the idea behind the design.I can only assume to limit the amount of forward travel in the event of an aircraft incident. Edited to add! With 14 jumpers weight shift is limited as we are packed in like sardines. ............................................................................... I am struggling to see the logic behind red straps that long. Granted, they prevent people from crushing the pilot, but they ignore the other end of the balance envelope 'cus they allow everyone to slide too far to the rear. If everyone slides too far aft, then the airplane is un-balanced: easy to stall and impossible to recover from a stall/spin. We have lost too many jump-planes and jumpers in stall-spin accidents. I am also struggling to understand how that long a red strap could prevent flail type injuries: bouncing off the ceiling, wall, floor, repeat???? I am completely baffled as to how that long a red strap could prevent a dog-pile at one end of the cabin????? Inquiring minds want to know????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #13 September 30, 2014 Like i said Rob, not my idea and i agree with your points but any restraint is better than no restraint and believe me, i have been there. Broke my back in 2007 in an aircraft incident! Whether restraints would have made a difference i don't know, but i'd like to think so..CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wasatchrider 0 #14 October 1, 2014 triggerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD2D83WOa4k&feature=youtu.be Is this what were talking about. I like the wave good bye and thumbs upBASE 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 848 #15 October 1, 2014 Sardines get oil. I feel cheated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #16 October 1, 2014 Are you willing to share the details with us? I will understand if you find the memory too painful. At a bare minimum, are you willing to share "lessons learned?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #17 October 1, 2014 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2711809;search_string=headcorn;#2711809 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2717788;search_string=trigger;#2717788 The first LINK is the actual incident Second LINk relative to the incident Lessons learned=restraints are a good idea use them ( no restraints were fitted in the aircraft and i was sitting back to back with the pilot statement relating to the 2007 incident ) Wear your helmet ( scroll down the thread in the 2nd Link as pictures are posted ).CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #18 October 1, 2014 Odd! The official report lists one parachutist suffering chest injuries, but no mention of your spinal injuries. Make sure that your injuries are carefully documented, in the event that you need to file claims for compensation later in life. BPA remains steadfast in their conviction that hang-ups are a greater risk than crashes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #19 October 1, 2014 Not an official report just the damn media. FTR Fractured L2,L3,whiplash and burst blood vessels in my eyes. Dragged my arse out of hospital the next day as i could stand the sound of people whining One dead pilot And no i'm not interested in compensation Fact: i am fully recovered IMO and have no desire to profit from someones death. Maybe i suffer with man the fuck up.CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #20 October 1, 2014 ...... Maybe I suffer with "man the fuck up" ........................................................................... "Man the fuck up" really messes with bureaucrats. Their entire triage system is based on how loud the patient whines. Bureaucrats cannot see the difference between "patient quit whining" versus "patient is healed." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #21 October 1, 2014 Those red lanyards are asinine, I fail to see the point! That is the downside of single point belts, I know two really great heads up instructors that managed to get their way out of a U-206 with the belt still on. If the belt isn't all jammed up I try to always shorten single point belts so that there is as little slack as possible. I figure it will be harder to forget if I have a short leash, and I will flail around less if I actually put the seat-belt to use in a crash."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #22 October 1, 2014 Agreed. Seat-belts only work if they are snug. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rastapara 0 #23 October 3, 2014 Also, is it a good idea to attach the seatbelt to your cheststrap? Its not designed to be loadbearing right?Parachute gear garage sale at :http://www.usedparachutes.eu Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #24 October 3, 2014 rastaparaAlso, is it a good idea to attach the seatbelt to your cheststrap? Its not designed to be loadbearing right? ............................................................................. Correct Most chest strap buckles are only rated for 500 pounds. Chest straps are only expected to keep the shoulder straps on your shoulders while your torso rotates to vertical. Chest and back straps' primary function is to prevent you from falling forward or backward out of the harness. Chest and back straps are only expected to hold 5 to 15 percent of opening shock. Once your torso is vertical, most of the weight is taken by your leg straps and MLWs. In comparison, most leg strap buckles are rated for 2,500 pounds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
douwanto 22 #25 October 4, 2014 2004 from a 206 in Iowa. It was really cold and the plane had a roll up door that I was unfamiliar with, I was distracted after exit i found myself hanging right side up under the plane. did i mention I was last out and it was a utility 206 so no help from the pilot. Fortunately the belt release was at the harness and i released it and away we went. Sometime luck matters... Uncle/GrandPapa Whit Unico Rodriguez # 245 Muff Brother # 2421 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
