LOW

[Aviatrr 0]

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if he was above you ,he was doing a better track than you were,sorry,sounnds like you're the bonehead.
if i ever see anyone above me after tracking,i know i have to improve my track.think about this!
des

Ya know, I read this a few times....and it still makes no sense to me. How am I the bonehead when I notice a problem, attempt to correct it(by turning), and HE FOLLOWS ME in the turn? During our pre-dive plan, he was one of the guys that planned on pulling at 3k. He took it below 2k. Again, how am I the bonehead for him losing altitude awareness? I had planned on pulling at 2.5, but was totally comfortable taking it down to 2k. If he had pulled as planned, there never would have been any problem. If he had not followed me, there would have been no problem.
If you see somebody above you after tracking you need to improve your track? You can track as hard as you want - there are always going to be people out there that can track just as well and put you in a similar situation. Then again, you must be the perfect skydiver.
Mike

[BarrettJ99 0]

I wouldn't say you're a bonehead, but I think the point here is that if you all broke and tracked together and you ended up below the other guy then maybe you weren't flat tracking. I don't think it was right to call you a bonehead for that, as it's happened to the best of us, but it's something that we all can improve on to make those zoo dives a little safer.
-T1
C-30757

[Deleted 0]

Sometimes it's not just the low pull that bites you but a series of stupid mistakes. When we were jumping in the dark ages with round mains and belly reserves we made a couple of very stupid mistakes on one jump that could have resulted in a very serious injury that would have ended my jumping career.
Mistakes:
1)Doing 4 way RW with only one altimeter on the load. The plan was for the guy with the altimeter to wave off at 3K, everyone do a 180 turn,track and open.
2) One of the guy's had a hand held camera so we could geek the camera. Camera jumps had a history of going low.
3) The guy with the altimeter wave's off at 1k we did our 180 and tracked looked down and saw a square hay bail the size of a house and getting bigger very fast. Ground rush big time!
4) Immediatly pulled ripcord and had a pilot chute hesitation. Luckly we were used to hesitations so we immediatly sat up to break the burble and the canopy opened & didn't malfuntion.
5) Had enough time to do a 360 degree turn to try and find the DZ before landing so we would know which direction to start walking. The opening was low enough that I couldn't find the DZ even in in the flat lands of kansas.
6) I walked back to the DZ maybe a mile ot two and my buddies were surprised to see me. I guess the people on the ground could see the four way going real low and then watch some real stupid tracking off, then still in freefall passing below the top of the Grain elevator before they lost sight of me below the horizone still in freefall.
The safety guy (ST&O/ST&A) signed my log book with his best guess of my opening altitude based on my guess of canopy time befor landing. and writes in the remark column "lets see you beat this".
The other guy's on my load (Roomates) knew we were low and just did a 180 and dumped. By the time I made it back to the DZ my roomates had already decided who was going to get my gear, girl friend and car. It was early in the day so we packed up and made another jump.
I was very stupid but very very lucky once. I figure the last 31 years are a gift and try and enjoy every day especially when I start feeling bad about something. I'm one of the few dummies that are still getting older. I won't even check the old log book to see how low the opening was because it doesn't matter.I was saved by dumb luck. At terminal velocity A second or two later I'd be in the big DZ in the sky for dummy's.
Don't try this at home kids, I'm ashamed to sign my name but I'm still jumping and haven't had a low opening (below 1500') even with a high speed malfunction & a snively cruise light.
Live and learn if you don't you can hurt yourself really bad. High performance landings no thank you.

[spectre230 0]

[Deleted 0]

Gee and we wonder why whuffos tink we are a bunch on crazy mofo's. Sorry dude but it takes ONE bad apple to spoil the rest.

[SkySlut 0]

Ever heard the saying "you have some old skydivers and you have some bold skydivers...but there aren't a lot of old bold skydivers."?
Just a thought...
"I'll jump anything!"

[Grogs 0]

My personal lowest was probably just above 2000', in the saddle just below. I normally pull right around 3K, but on this particular 9-way, I seemed to be dodging people at pull time, so I tracked a bit further before dumping.
I also take offense about that comment about the low tracker being screwed up. If you're a naturally fast faller, i.e., a dense person, there's no way you can be expected to stay up fall rate with some long, thin person with a baggy jumpsuit. I fall into the second category, and while I can arch hard enough to get down to a much larger person even without weights, I'm usually in a hard arch and that person is falling flat as a board, so when I go to track off, I just come out of an arch and sail above him, while he's almost falling at his tracking fall rate already. And in any case, I know lots of people who can out-track me. I don't think it means I suck - I would expect someone with hundreds or thousands more jumps to be a better tracker.

[lummy 4]

Pammi,
Sounds like you were lucky your Cypress didn't fire and have a 2 out

[Pammi 0]

Lummy - yeah, I was. I'm actually not sure why it didn't since it was on student gear which is set a little higher, of course. I'm lucky in all respects really....first words to the DZO after he chewed my ass was "do I still get to come jump?". Really expected him to tell me to leave and not come back! It's all good now tho :) He's a great guy and actually very protective of me...it's sweet :)
Pammi

[lummy 4]

Yeah, at least at SkyDance (MY DZ) the AADS are set to 1k' as opposed to 750'for regular jumpers. So what happened to make you lose altitude awareness? You may have posted it already but I don't remember seeing it.
Gary

[Pammi 0]

It was last fall, so that's probably why you wouldn't have seen it. On my second 15 sec delay (I had been doing IAD) I got in a spin that I got too engrossed in getting out of because I didn't want to pull 'unstable'. So was adjusting this and that, didn't seem like I had been falling long at all (although from 7,000 feet, it doesn't take long as we all know!) but when I looked at my alti it said 1500'. Dumb, dumb, dumb. Did a clear-and-pull the next weekend, but then had a serious illness with my mom after that, so didn't get back up 'til last month again. I was definately more nervous then I thought I'd be, but I've done pretty well since. Still fighting turns, but I think I have it licked finally. Regardless, even when I had a very fast, violent turning a few jumps ago, I still checked my alti faithfully and pulled at 4,000 as I'd been instructed to. Lowest I've gotten since was 3,000 (500 below what I'd intended) a couple jumps ago while doing a track for my student jump. I've learned that it goes much faster then I usually think...so check, check, check and PULL! It never seems like very long before it's over. *sigh* (I have a Dytter waiting for me at the DZ this weekend that I ordered, but like we've talked about before on here...I don't want to rely on it...it's MY responsibility to keep track of my altitude.)
Pammi

[Merrick 0]

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"...actually very protective of me...it's sweet :)"

Yeah, it's freakin' precious, leme' tell ya!
J/K baby!
Seriously tho, she was extremely lucky not to have a dual deployment. the student cypres' are set at 1200 I think & she was probably settling in at about 1100. Imagine watching the one person you care about more than anything in the world doing a 30 sec delay from about 6000 ft. I dang near wet myself, that is until I saw her canopy snivel open just above the tree-line, it literally looked like her canopy wasn't going to be open before she went into the trees! Of course I was about 400 yards away on the ground, but it scared me..... so I know it terrified her. a very very valuable lesson learned, and never repeated... right Pam?!?
"Peace & Blue Skies!"
Edited by Merrick on 3/27/01 11:40 AM.

[lummy 4]

I know how you feel. I was with my girlfriend at Skydive Dallas last year when she hit a burble from the trees and went down (Bad spot). Luckily one of the other jumpers who was right next to her was a doctor and gave medical attention right there. 2 sprained ankles and a broken finger. I'm just glad I didn't actually see her go in, would've REALLY freaked me out

[denaga 0]

I don't have aad

[skreamer 1]

Dude, what is with you???
You have already told us you love pulling low, now you tell us you are jumping without an AAD. Well, I am going to do my best NOT to pull low and, yes, I do own a cypres. Do you know why? Because I am starting to really love skydiving and I want to be alive for a long time to enjoy it.
I think maybe you are just trolling in a big way - I don't think you are somebody I would want to learn about skydiving from. I just checked your profile and you have your A license. So, an A-license skydiver who doesn't have an AAD and likes to pull low... Seems like your email address sums you up pretty accurately!
/s
[drop till you party!]

[Deleted 0]

Doh. He's Canadian as well, please don't hold this againt us Canucks.

[Deleted 0]

AAD set at 1200, pulled as it fired leaving me with two out. HIt the ground before I knew it.
Sunset load, day of #400, jumping with an ol navy buddy while visiting VA. 5th load of the day. Been doing nothing but belly 4 ways until then. 1st head down of the day.
....broke left ankle (screws, pins etc), fractured hip (4 ops) fractured neck (2 ops), impact blew out left eye (lost it), fractured jaw. Oh yeah, chipped my two front teeth! Both replaced.
Speed, brothers and sisters, speed. 1,932 (91 ytd) without a reserve ride, not including the "low pull"
PULL PULL PULL! It really is lower then you think!
Shaba (Sky Spirit)

[denaga 0]

That is really sad to hear.
I hope you get well soon !!!
GOOD LUCK
--Blue Skies-

[PLFXpert 0]

Hmmmm.....strange thread.
My lowest pull was at 2500 and I plan on keeping that the lowest. I usually pull about 3 grand. Personally, I do not see any purpose to pulling lower than 2500. It about drove me crazy hearing that at the Houston Para-Performance games, my boyfriend and the rest of the swoop competitors were hop-n-poping at 1800 feet b/c of cloud ceiling. I really do love the Para-Performance Games, ext. and it's organizers and have no other complaints but I do not support hop-n-pop's that low, especially at an organized event. That is just my opinion and of course I feel stronger than some about it b/c that's my boyfriend up there and I understand that the competitors still have their own mind of whether to go along with it and jump or not.
I am all for freedom of choice and if you choose to pull low there isn't a damn thing I can do about it except pray you don't mal. Personally, like I said, I do not see any purpose to it whatsoever. 2500 is a good # for me to pull by.
Also, the guy who posted how much he loves to pull low mentioned he doesn't have a Cypress. In general, I think everyone should have a Cypress although, had I not had the $ for one, I'd still be jumping without one myslef. However, in my opinion, if you're going to pull low b/c for whatever reason you find it amusing then how can it hurt to have a Cypress as a backup???
My last point, really has nothing to do with this thread but is anyone else a bit annoyed with all the "anonymous" negative comment posting. If you have an opinion, why not own up to it? I personally, have taken some bashing for stating my own opinions here but they are still my opinions and I am not ashamed of them and one of those opinions it that I find it somewhat cowardly to post a negative comment "anonymously" to avoid having to own up to it.
Much love and blue skies,
Carrie http://www.geocities.com/skydivegrl20/

[Zennie 0]

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However, in my opinion, if you're going to pull low b/c for whatever reason you find it amusing then how can it hurt to have a Cypress as a backup???

I'm not a low-pull artist, but if I were I probably wouldn't want a Cypres either. Not because I don't want it to save me but because I don't want to kill me.
If you pull your main near a Cypres' firing range, you risk having two out. This isn't the Cypres' fault, it's the puller's fault for being so low, but that's another argument....

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is anyone else a bit annoyed with all the "anonymous" negative comment posting. If you have an opinion, why not own up to it?

I'm not annoyed by it, but I find it kind of ironic. Here we have people who aren't afraid to jump out of airplanes, yet for some reason they're afraid to openly express their opinions. I'm who I am, I believe what I believe, like it or not. Give me a good reason and I'm perfectly willing to change my opinion on something, but I'm not afraid to express it. After all, dicussion of ideas is how we learn.
------------
Blue Skies!
Zennie

[SkySlut 0]

If you were going to jerk somebody around intentionally...would you want to put your name on it??? Seems likely that they are just having a little fun at our expense.
"I'll jump anything!"

[Eggman 0]

Good thread. I'm interested in other jumpers pull alt also.
I have had situations where I was under canopy by 1500 and that was way to low for me. Solo 3500 groups 2500!
Low pullers are just plain crazy! They also up the odds of a fatality which creates a bad light on the rest of us. I agree with the poster a few above. If you want more freefall, go higher!
I was at a DZ a few years back where this dude was pulling at 1500. He was bragging. Wonder if he's still around or has become another statistic.
The only limits to skydiving is the ground!

[Grogs 0]

Hey Carrie:
I wouldn't worry so much about 1800'. Yeah, it's low, but remember, they're not terminal when they leave the plane. Falling from 1800' takes a little under 10 seconds (assuming belly flying) at terminal velocity, but it's closer to 15 seconds when you actually start at 1800'. 15 seconds is actually a little bit longer than you have pulling at 2500' normally. Of course the chutes won't open as quickly subterminal, so it might be a little nervewracking to jump a spectre or something like that.
As for the issue of wearing an AAD if you have a tendency to pull low, personally I'd take the AAD. Which is worse, having an AAD and getting into a 2-out scenario where you might die, or a no-pull where you will die. Of course I doubt that a person who liked doing intentional low pulls would see it that way, but that's my personal opinion.

[Iflyme 0]

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I am all for freedom of choice and if you choose to pull low there isn't a damn thing I can do about it

Well that's just fine and everything - I mean the freedom of choice stuff, but when someone exercises their "freedom" to be an idiot, then it results in an accident, or a fatality, then ALL the participants in our sport pay for it. The rest of society views us as "a threat to ourself" and lawmakers will try to furthur regulate our freedoms. And there IS something you (and we as a group) can do about it - encourage others to act responsibly.
And to answer someone who asked where we all pull, I pull at 3000.
Frank

[Craig 0]

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I am all for freedom of choice and if you choose to pull low there isn't a damn thing I can do about it except
pray you don't mal.

Freedom of Choice is good and all but....
All the while I am praying this guy don't come crashing through my canopy while in freefall.
Craig