Hypoxia + Asthma + Skydiving

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Hey everyone,

I have asthma and skydiving has not been any type of problem for me. I'm trying to get into scuba diving, but that looks like it's a whole nother ball game. Anyways, my question today is this:

DO asthmatic skydivers become more suceptible to hypoxia? I mean, in an otter at 15k, we have to do a go around for a second drop or something...Am I more likely to become hypoxic before someone else who does not have asthma?

I can see reasons why I would, but I can also back those with reasons why I wouldn't.

Anyone else have any advice?

Thanks

Chris

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[Andy_Copland 0]

I was tossing this around in my head last night.

Im asthmatic myself (well kinda, had it as a kid and need my inhalers during season changes, thats it)and have had no problems at all skydiving. I dont think it would really make a differance as long as you are not under any symptons of asthma at the time.

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

To explain a bit of my reasoning, I'll add to my first post.

I've had Asthma for 16 years. I used to have acute asthma and would randomly spend 1-3 weeks in hospital 3-4 times a year. I have been on my death bed 6 times. The doctors called in my parents and asked them to spend the night, incase...

Now, I am much better I have a steroid puffer that I am supposed to take 2 puffs twice daily. I take it 3 puffs a couple times a week. I also have the ventolin (blue) rescue inhaler for when it is needed, which is rarely (once a month).

My question is based around the fact that an asthmatic has reduced air/oxygen intake, so theoretically hypoxia will set in quicker. But, my defence to that, is that anyone who has had asthma for more than a few months, likely had their body adjust to this new "lower" intake of oxygen. So the way I breathe now, is 100% of what my body needs. So I am back on par with any regular person.

I guess this would be best asked to a doctor, but I'm curious if anyone has ran into this before.

Chris

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[Andy_Copland 0]

CPR is possible because when we take a full breath with healthy lungs we only use about 33% (off the top of my head from biology class about 7 years ago) and the reciever can use the rest and even have some left to breath out.

Just because the bronchial (SP) tube is tighter it doesnt mean the red blood cells in your blood stream wont do what they are supposed to do in the alveoli (sp)

So as asthmatics we dont survive on less oxygen so to speak.

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[kelpdiver 2]

If you're getting frequently hospitalized for it, I'm sorry, diving is probably a stupid risk. The cold dry air can especially be a triggering factor.

That same trigger could be present on an altitude jump where you're breathing the 02. If it happens, what do you do? Jump (alone) to lower altitude, or stay in the plane with someone who can render first aid? Have a plan that doesn't rely on the pilot.

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Hey kelpdiver,

Thanks for the info...I must make one thing clear. I do not have frequest attacks anymore. The last time I was in the hospital for asthma was probably 5-6 years ago.

When you say diving is a stupid risk, were you referring to scuba or skydiving? If you are referring to scuba, based on your name, I assume you have some idea about scuba diving. I wasn't sure if it was the increased pressure of scuba diving, or the fact that I would be breathing nitrogen/oxygen, or a combination of both.

If you are referring to skydiving and I felt an attack coming on in the plane, I would honestly feel safer getting out. I have my asthma under control and know exactly when/if an attack will be just a mild shortness of breath, or I know I will need a hospital visit. Oddly enough, I can sense when a mild attack is coming on, I can't explain it, but I can. I know that I have to get someone to take me to the hospital when my chin gets itchy. Sounds weird, but it's the wonders of the human body. Even if my chin was itchy, I would still probably get out of the plane. I can make it down quicker. Plus, it's not like I pass out, and I'm sure most skydives I hold my breath anyways so it's not a big deal. I would be smart enough to know my limits. I know when I can and cannot do something when having an attack, after 16 years I know pretty well.

Thanks for the input

Chris

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[rehmwa 2]

Asthma, but treated well over the last few years and the lungs have return to (bottom of the 'normal' range). With the allergy shots over nearly 5 years ago and the daily Advair, I have no symptoms or problems for the last few years.

I still get a little bit of numb tongue thing going on above 17K (AGL, I usually play at DZs around 900 to 1000 ft MSL). So I'd say 18K MSL is my limit without O2.

And one time above 20K (pre-asthma treatment) I get tunnel vision almost immediately after I stop on the oxygen.

I've never done a high altitude training, nor have I done the full breathing preps normal for a higher altitude jump. Nor have I tried anything above 20K since I've been treated and have recovered.

Other, dry and cold can be a trigger. that applies to asthma in some cases. Keep the rescue inhalor handy while you explore your envelope.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jumpdr 0]

Quote

To explain a bit of my reasoning, I'll add to my first post.

I've had Asthma for 16 years. I used to have acute asthma and would randomly spend 1-3 weeks in hospital 3-4 times a year. I have been on my death bed 6 times. The doctors called in my parents and asked them to spend the night, incase...

Now, I am much better I have a steroid puffer that I am supposed to take 2 puffs twice daily. I take it 3 puffs a couple times a week. I also have the ventolin (blue) rescue inhaler for when it is needed, which is rarely (once a month).

My question is based around the fact that an asthmatic has reduced air/oxygen intake, so theoretically hypoxia will set in quicker. But, my defence to that, is that anyone who has had asthma for more than a few months, likely had their body adjust to this new "lower" intake of oxygen. So the way I breathe now, is 100% of what my body needs. So I am back on par with any regular person.

I guess this would be best asked to a doctor, but I'm curious if anyone has ran into this before.

Chris

Disclaimer: I'm NOT your doctor, so don't take what I say without speaking to your own doctor who knows you, but I can offer some information.

I'm an Army doc and as such I'm doing parachuting and scuba diving medicals all the time. I also skydive (obviously!) and scuba dive myself. From what you say, your asthma certainly has been severe in the past, but it sounds like it's pretty much under control with minimal treatment - intermittent use of steroids. Asthma doesn't so much mean you get less air/oxygen in, as having difficulty getting the air OUT. Asthmatics have particularly sensitive airways to triggers such as pollen, dust or cold, dry air (everyone is different) and this causes the muscle in the walls of the airways to contract. When you then try to breath out, the increase in pressure in your chest causes these airways to partially or completely collapse. These partially collapsed airways create whistling noises, which is why you get a wheeze when you breathe out. This lack of movement of air, due to the collapsing airways is what causes you to be starved of oxygen. When skydiving, you are likely to be exposed to cold, possibly dry, air and perhaps a bit more ozone - if these are persistent triggers for you (which it doesn't sound like they are) then skydiving might be a bad idea. The hypoxia per se, isn't likely to trigger an attack. It would be bad if you were in the middle of a really serious attack, but then you wouldn't be on a plane if you were! The body's oxygenation system is remarkably efficient at picking up oxygen from the lungs and delivering it to the body, which is why it doesn't really bother us when we're at typical skydiving altitudes, even though our blood might only be 85-90% saturated. I would suggest for your skydiving activities, you kept one of the blue (reliever/rescue) inhalers handy either in your jump suit or somewhere accessible on the plane, just in case. I wouldn't recommend getting out of the plane if you're in the middle of an attack, but if you did, the adrenaline rush may well help, since that's what the inhaler is sort of providing!
Scuba diving, on the other hand, is a different kettle of fish. I absolutely would not pass an asthmatic as fit to dive (they probably wouldn't be in the army anyway if that were the case). Not only are you exposed to all sorts of irritants (dry air, changes in pressure, air contaminants) but if you were to have an attack some 40m down you'd be in big trouble. The combination of panic, difficulty breathing, possible loss of consciousness and the risks associated with a rapid ascent from depth as well as lack of facilities on the surface does not bear thinking about. You could theoretically lie and self certify yourself as being fit, but I would strongly advise against it - the risk isn't worth it.

I hope this helps.

Skydiving is more than a sport and more than a job: skydiving is pure passion and desire which will fill a lifetime.

[kelpdiver 2]

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When you say diving is a stupid risk, were you referring to scuba or skydiving? If you are referring to scuba, based on your name, I assume you have some idea about scuba diving. I wasn't sure if it was the increased pressure of scuba diving, or the fact that I would be breathing nitrogen/oxygen, or a combination of both.

Up until the 90s, anyone who ever had asthma, even the childhood form, would be considered unsuitable. This was a bit ridiculous in light of the number of people who went diving anyway. Outside of the US it relaxed a bit, even here I think you can officially do it after consulting with a pulmonologist.

The problem is that if you have any issue at depth, you've blocked off aveoli that are at pressure and can't release it. When you ascend to the surface, they can burst, sending an air bubble into the bloodstream, leaving to arterial gas embolism, which can kill pretty quickly. A slow ascent won't help here. And in could be as little as a 4' ascent without release that could burst the air sacs.

Quote

If you are referring to skydiving and I felt an attack coming on in the plane, I would honestly feel safer getting out.

That probably would be better, but you are now on your own until you get to the ground. And you have to land safely before anyone can assist you. If you're wrong - not good. 16 years of sea level experience may or may not translate well to what could happen at 18k.

I'm not making a medical judgement here - just pointing out that it is probably a minimum of 5 minutes on your own if you leave the plane. On the plane, they can continue to administer pseudo 100% O2, or artificial respiration, or can call 911 on the descent.

At the very least you want to make sure the people at the DZ know your history so they can quickly assess your condition should something happen.

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Thanks for the great info guys!

I don't have intentions of doing a HALO jump or anything like that anytime soon. I was just curious as to whether asthmatics were more susceptible to hypoxia.

I know for skydiving, on a normal (<15k) jump, I am under control of my asthma. Depending on the severity at which it hit me, I would choose to get out. I have never passed out while having an attack, I've stopped breathing, but I've never blacked out. I think if I ever go on a HALO jump, I will consider carrying my own oxygen (rescue bottle).

In regards to Scuba...damn. I was hoping it wasn't really that serious. I didn't realize that you could rupture anything. I knew about rising too quickly and causing nitrogen bubbles in your blood, but I didn't realize that asthma could cause the same effect.


Thanks again

Chris

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[diablopilot 2]

Unless you are suffering from an asthma attack I would say you're at no higher risk. I looked into this to see what issues I might encounter with asthmatic students (tandem and aff).

Do you jump with your rescue inhaler? Might want to consider it, and letting people you jump with know that.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[jumpdr 0]

Quote

The problem is that if you have any issue at depth, you've blocked off aveoli that are at pressure and can't release it. When you ascend to the surface, they can burst, sending an air bubble into the bloodstream, leaving to arterial gas embolism, which can kill pretty quickly. A slow ascent won't help here. And in could be as little as a 4' ascent without release that could burst the air sacs.

Yep, forgot to mention the air trapping and mucus-plugging associated with asthma can cause this. This is very different to the nitrogen bubble emboli causing decompression sickness and as rightly pointed out, has nothing to do with ascent rate.

Skydiving is more than a sport and more than a job: skydiving is pure passion and desire which will fill a lifetime.

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Hey,

Thanks. I've also never had a problem skydiving. I think the adrenaline may actually prevent any type of attack that might occur. It was mentioned above that it may be safer to get out due to the adrenaline flow.

I do "have" a rescue inhaler and it's "sometimes" at the dropzone. I've never carried it on me or on the plane. In all honesty, I don't think I've had it at the DZ very often. It's something that really doesn't bother me anymore. The only time I notice a slight problem is in the spring when the pussy willows come out, and doing exercise in extremely cold weather. Extremely cold being -25C and below.

Chris

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[riggerrob 643]

Most people are hypoxic at 15,000 feet above sea level.
Unless you are a sherpa or marathon runner, you are probably hypoxic too.
The problem is that hypoxia symptoms are so subtle, that most people ignore them.
If some one tries to tell you that he is not hypoxic - after 15 minutes at 15,000' - he is lying.

[riggerrob 643]

On the opposite end of the scale ... I find that adrenaline reduces my exercise-induced asthma.
For example, I can do a tandem jump, run the thousand feet to re-board the plane and soon do another tandem, but if I tried to run that same distance from a cold start, my constricted throat would drag me to a halt.

[billvon 2,997]

>Unless you are a sherpa or marathon runner, you are probably hypoxic too.

Sherpa (or being from Denver) - agreed.

Marathon runner - some athletes are actually a bit _more_ susceptible to hypoxia, in my experience. Not sure why.

[Andy_Copland 0]

I was speaking to a guy at work who used to ride bikes and he said in Serbia he was taken to the tops of moutains once they had oxygenated his blood with various methods.

Not sure how true it is.

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.