UPT SB on some Spectra ripcords.

[piisfish 140]

http://ripcord.uptvector.com/PSB-2015-01.php

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[pchapman 279]

Hmm, interesting.
Just under a month back gowlerk asked about high pull forces on a Spectra ripcord rig he was packing.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4734415;search_string=pull%20force%20spectra%20ripcord;#4734415

He called it!


Bulletin summary:
Recall for some Spectra ripcords built Jan 2014 through May 2015. Too much urethane coating makes them sticky. Only applies to certain lot numbers marked on the ripcords, not all production in that time period.
Spray with food grade silicone according to their procedure before next jump. Then mandatory free replacement before end of 2015.

Edit: Also interesting to note that they have 8 different ripcord lengths listed. A good reminder to check with a company when swapping ripcords around.

[piisfish 140]

pchapman

He called it!

the very good thing is to have SB's called for prior to blood spilling

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Unstable 9]

Quote

He called it!

Wow. I wonder if Upt started the investigation based on his observations?

=========Shaun ==========

[Pobrause 6]

Quote

Wow. I wonder if Upt started the investigation based on his observations?

He wasn't the first one, there have been others before him, e.g. we had a Vector just about over two month ago that we found the same issue on and contacted UPT. Their answer was to use a normal steel cable instead of the spectra ripcord. They sent one our way immediately but told us that nobody else had this kind of problem.

good to see they figured out the problem now =)

-------------------------------------------------------

To absent friends

[faulknerwn 38]

And just as a random thought that had never occurred to me before today - you need to make sure you aren't doing CRW with non-metal ripcords. I have definitely seen lines damaged in wraps, and it would suck big time if you got in a wrap and lines sawed through your ripcord..

[peek 21]

faulknerwn

... you need to make sure you aren't doing CRW with non-metal ripcords. I have definitely seen lines damaged in wraps, and it would suck big time if you got in a wrap and lines sawed through your ripcord..

Wendy, that is an excellent point! I think that it proves that people should not be in a hurry to use something just because it is "new" and is touted as having certain advantages, but to instead, evaluate it carefully using all the information you can obtain from all sources and from all skydiving disciplines.

[parachutist 2]

So has anyone actually tried the Interim method of squirting Silicone spray into both ends of the hard housing yet? It seems like a great way to make a mess out of a pretty rig. I'm imagining black wet stuff dripping out.

[Hooknswoop 19]

I do that at every re-pack with Ace Pure Silicone Lubricant. Cutaway cables, cutaway and reserve housings. No black wet stuff dripping out. it drys very quickly, leaving a film of silicone behind that isn't sticky. Makes a big difference on pull forces.

Derek V

[parachutist 2]

Hooknswoop

I do that at every re-pack with Ace Pure Silicone Lubricant. Cutaway cables, cutaway and reserve housings. No black wet stuff dripping out. it drys very quickly, leaving a film of silicone behind that isn't sticky. Makes a big difference on pull forces.

Derek V

Interesting. I've always cleaned the cables only. Thanks... I'll try it out

[woppyvac 0]

Cables have been used for decades... Pretty good track record.

Woot Woot!

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

Cables have been used for decades... Pretty good track record. CrazyCrazyCrazyCrazyCrazyCrazy

Stainless reserve ripcords have had their issues.

Derek V

[Skydivesg 7]

peek

I think that it proves that people should not be in a hurry to use something just because it is "new" and is touted as having certain advantages, but to instead, evaluate it carefully using all the information you can obtain from all sources and from all skydiving disciplines.

Gary, I'm just curious - what is your definition of "new"?

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

[peek 21]

Skydivesg

Gary, I'm just curious - what is your definition of "new"?

Perhaps I should have used the word "newer", "newest", or "different". I realize that the Spectra ripcord has been around a while.

[fcajump 164]

Skydivesg

***I think that it proves that people should not be in a hurry to use something just because it is "new" and is touted as having certain advantages, but to instead, evaluate it carefully using all the information you can obtain from all sources and from all skydiving disciplines.

Gary, I'm just curious - what is your definition of "new"?

For me, given the track record of metal cables, and my concerns over the service life, inspection and replacement of soft ripcords, I would say that "new" in this case is before we have had systems retired for age that started with the soft ripcords.

Soft links are good too. But it took a wide acceptance of them, and years on them to learn in blood what their limitations were. Most people now understand that they are life limited roughly equal to the line sets they anchor. Unlike metal links (which have their own issues that we have pretty well understood for a long time) we had to learn a new life cycle for the new link.

As metal ripcords have a great track record and the inspection/maintenance requirements are pretty well understood, I will choose to use them until we have found out what the real-world limits are on this most vital gear item. IF this too is a lesson we (collectively) are destined to learn in blood, I'd rather it not be mine.

In this specific item, I am concerned of possible wear inside the housing. Whether from a sharp edge in a malformed housing or foreign object that has worked its way in. I am concerned as to whether the entire ripcord will be extracted and inspected at each repack. (you know... its a pain to feed it back through, it slides easily enough so you know its not bound up... it'll be fine... right?) And that's before we found this (previously unanticipated) issue with the coating. What other real-world issues will these ripcords have... dunno...

Don't get me wrong... there are some things I have bought early in their release... I bought a Cypres 1 when the ads were touting the fact that the control unit was hidden away so that other jumpers won't know you have one. (yes... really... that was a thing) But the other AAD's on the market then were proven to have serious issues, and this new AAD had a sound test program... so I rolled the dice.

Here, I don't see the great advantage to the soft ripcords, but do see life cycle/maintenance issues that give me pause.

You, of course, are welcome to evaluate the options and your risk tolerance and choose which makes you feel more comfortable...

But I have to ask these questions...
What problem was the soft ripcord intended to fix?
What new issues might exist with this solution?
Are the new problems better than the old?

Just my $.02
JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[PiLFy 3]

Explanation of spectra ripcord begins @four mins.:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1J_zE3eFdw

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

fcajump

...In this specific item, I am concerned of possible wear inside the housing. Whether from a sharp edge in a malformed housing or foreign object that has worked its way in. I am concerned as to whether the entire ripcord will be extracted and inspected at each repack. (you know... its a pain to feed it back through, it slides easily enough so you know its not bound up... it'll be fine... right?) And that's before we found this (previously unanticipated) issue with the coating. What other real-world issues will these ripcords have... dunno...

I don't pack any rigs with the new ripcord, but I've always considered inspecting the entire reserve ripcord as part of the I&R.

Just thinking out loud, but how practical would it be to take a length of line and tie it to the pin?

Pull the ripcord all the way out, but leave the line in the housing. Use the line to pull the ripcord back through (like a 'fish tape' when running electrical wire).

Edit to add: I'm not implying that you (fcajump) doesn't pull the entire ripcord out to inspect it.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[fcajump 164]

PiLFy

Explanation of spectra ripcord begins @four mins.:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1J_zE3eFdw

Had seen before and reviewed it. Good information and I do trust Bill. (Though on a $2500+ rig, his point on saving $25 doesn't do much for me...) But I also stand behind my statement that its not reached the level of use and longevity that makes me feel that the benefits outweigh the potentials of the yet unknown life-cycle issues.

I am also curious what he intends to use to replace the hard housings... the soft cutaway housing issue comes to mind...

If this was on a main deployment (like the sigma), Ok. But I'm REALLY conservative when it comes to my reserve system.

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[fcajump 164]

wolfriverjoe

Just thinking out loud, but how practical would it be to take a length of line and tie it to the pin?

Pull the ripcord all the way out, but leave the line in the housing. Use the line to pull the ripcord back through (like a 'fish tape' when running electrical wire).

Edit to add: I'm not implying that you (fcajump) doesn't pull the entire ripcord out to inspect it.

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[mxk 1]

wolfriverjoe

***...In this specific item, I am concerned of possible wear inside the housing. Whether from a sharp edge in a malformed housing or foreign object that has worked its way in. I am concerned as to whether the entire ripcord will be extracted and inspected at each repack. (you know... its a pain to feed it back through, it slides easily enough so you know its not bound up... it'll be fine... right?) And that's before we found this (previously unanticipated) issue with the coating. What other real-world issues will these ripcords have... dunno...

I don't pack any rigs with the new ripcord, but I've always considered inspecting the entire reserve ripcord as part of the I&R.

Just thinking out loud, but how practical would it be to take a length of line and tie it to the pin?

Pull the ripcord all the way out, but leave the line in the housing. Use the line to pull the ripcord back through (like a 'fish tape' when running electrical wire).

Edit to add: I'm not implying that you (fcajump) doesn't pull the entire ripcord out to inspect it.

I haven't had any problems pulling the spectra ripcord out and getting it back in again without any extra tools. You just need to play with the angle of the housing. Get it as straight as possible and the ripcord goes through without major difficulties.

Even though I have a V3 that's less than a year old, my ripcord is from a 2012 batch, fortunately. If it was from one of the affected batches, I would not do the interim solution and would just replace it before the next jump. As Jim said, rubbing spectra against the inside of the housing with no way to inspect its condition afterwards just seems like a bad idea.

Also, Kenneth Gajda @ UPT previously told me that pulling the ripcord too much too often "may affect the bungee."

[Southern_Man 0]

mxk

I haven't had any problems pulling the spectra ripcord out and getting it back in again without any extra tools. You just need to play with the angle of the housing. Get it as straight as possible and the ripcord goes through without major difficulties.

I have quite a few rigs w/ Spectra ripcords that I repack. It really is not difficult to get the Spectra ripcord back though. Yeah, sometimes it takes a couple tries, but not a problem. I would not tie something around it, as it is not a big enough problem to solve and the solution may be worse than the problem.

I am w/ FCAjumps, I tend to be conservative and the metal ripcords have such a good record and such well known parameters that I would personally be in no hurry to jump a Spectra reserve ripcord.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[hackish 8]

I like the spectra ripcords because I can keep a bunch of spectra cords in stock and a couple of handles then simply assemble the correct length that the jumper needs.

For the inspection of them, the same cypres cord I use to close the reserve works to pull them through but as mxk points out it's not hard to push them through without any tools.

On the lube subject I did speak briefly with Kenneth since they were not entirely explicit about the sort of silicone spray to use.

I dug up a lot of MSDS sheets before finding a water based 100% food grade one from aklands grainger made by "CRC". Many others use chemicalslike acetone/kerosene as a solvent yet still call it 100% silicone spray assuming the acetone will evaporate completely.

The only complaint I have about the CRC brand is that it's a bit foamy if you are not careful with spraying it. I have 2 affected rigs at the DZ so I'll just keep spraying them down every month.

-Michael

[JerryBaumchen 1,376]

Hi Michael,

Quote

I like the spectra ripcords because I can keep a bunch of spectra cords in stock and a couple of handles then simply assemble the correct length that the jumper needs.

I know that you are in Canada; but that V-III ripcord is a TSO-certificated item.

Are remaking them?

Jerry Baumchen

[mark 107]

JerryBaumchen

... that V-III ripcord is a TSO-certificated item.

Are remaking them?

The Spectra part larks-heads to the handle. I'd call what Michael is doing "assembly" rather than "manufacture" or "repair." Kinda like connecting a reserve pilot chute to a free bag.

Mark

[hackish 8]

mark

***... that V-III ripcord is a TSO-certificated item.

Are remaking them?

The Spectra part larks-heads to the handle. I'd call what Michael is doing "assembly" rather than "manufacture" or "repair." Kinda like connecting a reserve pilot chute to a free bag.

Correct, this is why I used the term assemble. Those who have received their replacement spectra cords will also note that they received a cord only. FAA riggers are permitted as per UPT's instructions and CSPA riggers it is a simple assembly with no machine sewing.

-Michael