New Loop for Every Reserve Packjob

[jws3 0]

When I learned to pack reserves, I was taught to make a new loop for every pack job but I've noticed that none of the manuals actually tell you to. What's the general consensus on whether or not this is necessary? Maybe necessary if it's a used rig that you've never seen before and you don't know how old the loop is? Maybe not if you did the last packjob and you know you made a new loop last time?

[Paraservice 0]

New loop for every pack job. Cypres loops are very sensitive and

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the one that looks good before you start reusing it, may not be worthy when you're finished

• Quote

[skybill 22]

Hi JW,
Great way to get an extra $5 outa' your customer's pocketbook!!! "Oh" I've heard the lies!!!! "You're gonna die if I don't replace your loop!!!!!" Yeah, right! After a year or so, maybe.....It takes at while for one to "Stretch" into shape... I have a new one now and I'm going to have to pop the rig and shorten the loop so the PC spring doesn't cock in the pack!! Unless there's frays around the pin it's probably good!! Then again, how's your closing technique?? I've seen some "Ham Fisted" riggers "Pop" 3 closing loops on one rig before they got it "Closed!!!" Go figure??........I have a great idea!!!! Lets go back to "Metal Cones and Grommets!!!"

SCR-2034, SCS-680

III%,
Deli-out

[parachutist 2]

jws3

When I learned to pack reserves, I was taught to make a new loop for every pack job but I've noticed that none of the manuals actually tell you to. What's the general consensus on whether or not this is necessary? Maybe necessary if it's a used rig that you've never seen before and you don't know how old the loop is? Maybe not if you did the last packjob and you know you made a new loop last time?

Every time for me. They're weak and I like tight pack jobs. It sucks to pin the top flap and notice the previously-used loop is now showing fraying.

The trick to making this a painless proposition: Get a stock of 50-100 Cypres discs for your loft. Then you spend a rainy afternoon watching Netflix while making new loops on those discs. Every pack job after that: you just grab one from a bin and size it. Fast and easy.

There's no extra charge for a new loop in my loft.. it's part of the pack job.

[peter.draper 0]

I put a new loop on every reserve pack, it's included in the price - I also never take a chance with the main closing loop, if it looks even half way worn I change it out (because I've seen some skydivers close a main with "maybe half a jump left" on a closing loop).....

[betzilla 56]

I replace the Cypres loop each time unless it's pristine (and they are almost never pristine, haha). I never charge extra for a standard Cypres loop - I just see it as part of the job to make a new one each time. I could definitely see charging a nominal fee to build and replace a racer loop, or maybe even for a Reflex, but for just a plain old regular loop, just wouldn't seem right to me personally.

[jws3 0]

My loops aren't particularly tight. I usually close everything up to the pilot chute with just my hands, then start using the leverage tool after the PC.

When I'm packing a rig without an AAD, I like to use 725-lb Spectra mostly because I feel like it's a lot tougher than Cypres loop. I guess in that case, it's probably okay to use for several pack-jobs. I have broken a Cypres loop closing a reserve before, but I can't imagine breaking 725-lb Spectra.

I wish they just made beefier AAD cutters that could handle loop materials that aren't so delicate.

[mxk 1]

jws3

I was taught to make a new loop for every pack job but I've noticed that none of the manuals actually tell you to.

The Vector manual also doesn't tell you to attach the reserve pilot chute to the bridle when assembling a new rig. When I pointed that out to Kenneth @ UPT, just in the course of another discussion, this was his reply:

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The manual does not give you an option not to attach it to the pilot chute. I agree that some parts are not explained in detail, as they do rely on the riggers using their basic training.

Seems like a pretty important step that warrants a mention somewhere, but there you go. Rely on your training, and since the manual doesn't give you the option to reuse the existing loop, you must make a new one

(The manual doesn't give me an option of going to the bathroom in the middle of a packjob either and my training didn't cover this scenario... am I allowed to go? )

[Unstable 9]

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When I learned to pack reserves, I was taught to make a new loop for every pack job but I've noticed that none of the manuals actually tell you to. What's the general consensus on whether or not this is necessary? Maybe necessary if it's a used rig that you've never seen before and you don't know how old the loop is? Maybe not if you did the last packjob and you know you made a new loop last time?

New loop every packjob here, on racers I like to replace the quickloop every 3 packs or so, depending on the level of wear.

Especially with cutters above the reserve pc, I like to look and pay attention to the condition of the loop as it passes through the grommet stack and through the cutter. This is where the wear occurs.

=========Shaun ==========

[riggerrob 643]

Cypres loops are delicate, so delicate that they can be damaged during one pack job. Even a rough edge on a grommet or temporary pin is enough to fray a Cypres loop.
The Cypres 1 manual says to replace loops when they start to fray.
The Cypres 2 manual says to replace loops during every reserve repack.

[BrianM 1]

jws3

none of the manuals actually tell you to.

Page 40 of the CYPRES manual:

"Non adjustable loops which are attached to a CYPRES disc and are mounted in containers with internal pilot chute should be replaced at each repack. After attachment to the disc, CYPRES loops should be treated with CYPRES loop silicone on the upper 4 centimeters."

"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg

[jws3 0]

That same page also says:

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Even if you do not have an AAD
in your container, a CYPRES loop will markedly
improve your safety. The use of CYPRES accessories
(loops, discs, setups) with other brand
AADs is prohibited as we have not performed any
compatibility tests.

They justify the benefits of using Cypres loop on page 42 saying that

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Previous reserve container closing loops were made
from old parachute suspension lines or similar material
consisting of Kevlar, Dacron, Spectra etc. They
were often thick, rough and became stiff while under
tension in a packed container for a long period of
time. As a result these loops could delay the reserve
container opening or even avoid it after the ripcord
was pulled because they became trapped between
the grommets ... Although the loop is really narrow, its breaking
strength is in excess of 408 lbs (185 Kp).

Have closing loop materials like Spectra really caused total malfunctions historically? It seems pretty unlikely unless someone just pencil packs the same pack-job for like 10 years. The 408-lb rated strength for Cypres loops also seems kind of unlikely.

Edit:
Good point though. I've been mostly packing Vigils and rigs without AADs lately, so I haven't looked closely at the Cypres manual in a while.

[riggerrob 643]

jws3

That same page also says:

***Even if you do not have an AAD
in your container, a CYPRES loop will markedly
improve your safety. The use of CYPRES accessories
(loops, discs, setups) with other brand
AADs is prohibited as we have not performed any
compatibility tests.

.........................................................................

Cypres loops typically reduce pull-force to 5 pounds less than their predecessors (Dacron, Kevlar or nylon).

The rest is just "cover your ass" legal jargon.
The Cypres factory was upset that they set the standard for modern, electronic AADs and gave away thousands of free pockets. Now all their competitors (Argus, Astra, Marrs and Vigil) got a free ride.
The Cypres factory is also afraid that an ambulance-chasing lawyer will mention them in a shot-gun lawsuit, when their only involvement was selling a loop to a rigger who installed it with an AAD made by someone else.