freebird 0 #201 June 28, 2002 But there are many creatures on this planets that are a bunch of cells....wht makes us any better than they are this planet could have done fine without us (mabe)...........there is something that sets us aside from all other living ceatures...not just the fact that we are intelligent.that is just evolution there is more than that .....That is just my opinion............No need for any of us to get all hot and bother anymore.Im sorry for posting it in the first place......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #202 June 28, 2002 QuoteNo, I think your problem is that I really honestly do believe that God is real and am willing to act upon that. A belief is often described as an idea that one is willing to act upon. What you want me to do is simply stay silent or include some tag with my posts to tell the world that really what I am saying is just as pointless err I mean as "equally valid" as what everyone else is saying. No, actually I was hoping you would avoid resorting to critisizing others, state your opinion and why you believe that way and leave it at that (as everyone else has done throughout this thread). It's called respecting others opinions/beliefs. Obviously my response to you was offensive. My point in that response was not to offend you, but to show you how you might be offending others. Personally, I could care less. You do what you want, I'll do what I want, believe what you want to believe, and I'll do the same. Won't be losing any sleep over it here. Unless of course, you become a government official and then try to dictate your beliefs to me. That I would have a problem with. And that's what this thread is about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sinkster 0 #203 June 28, 2002 QuoteAnd that's what this thread is about. Yeah, that may be what this thread is about, but not what was being addressed. If you really could care less, why even bother with a response? "Ignorance is the curse of God, Knowledge the wing wherewith we fly to heaven." --William Shakespeare Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazerq3 0 #204 June 28, 2002 I dont know if this was covered cause I'm too lazy to go through 200 posts but one thing I reall respected about the military is that when it came time to swear in they told us that at the end of the oath the last words are "so help me god".....they instructed the if your beliefs were not of god that you dont have to repeat it...also in BOOT CAMP they said that if they didnt have your religion they had rooms where you could be alone to practice your religion WHATEVER IT MAY BE......the only stipulation there was that you could use any fire or kill anything...other than that do whatever you have to do!! jasonFreedom of speech includes volume Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,989 #205 June 29, 2002 >But there are many creatures on this planets that are a bunch of > cells....wht makes us any better than they are this planet could have > done fine without us (mabe)........... Actually, this planet would be doing better without us, from a purely ecological perspective. >there is something that sets us aside from all other living >ceatures...not just the fact that we are intelligent.that is just > evolution there is more than that ..... Yes, it's that we have a spirit, a combination of our minds, brains and bodies that lets us do things that benefit someone outside ourselves. Look at what Jonas Salk, Mother Theresa, Mohandas Gandhi, and Martin Luther King did for the rest of us. Evidence that we are far more than mere animals, to me, does not come from a deity - it comes from the actions of people like those I listed above, who would put the welfare of others far above their own. We have a long way to go before we can live up to the standards they have set. The fact that we think it is worth it to try is the best evidence yet that there is hope for us, that we are worthy of being more than a "bunch of cells." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mouth 0 #206 June 29, 2002 I generally have stayed out of stuff like this, but I finally couldn't resist. No, I haven't had the patience to sit and read ALL of the relpies, but I have skimmed 90% of them. As most of you know I am a teacher in a public middle school in Georgia. ( Get the redneck ideas out of your system. ) My school is 85% black, 15% caucasian, and 5% other. We have gangs, violence and all other problems of a city school. I am 5'2" tall so that puts me well below the height of the average middle schooler. I weigh in at about 120, so again I am below their average. I teach a remedial class which means that most of my students have NOT found success in the regular classroom. Many have become behavior problems who are generally drop-outs waiting to turn of age. That said...... My students learn that certain things are the expected norm in my classroom. I do not allow any student to degrade another student for any reason. I display a classroom pledge that states I expect them to do their best every day regardless of what their day or my day has been like. I teach Math, but I also teach community awareness, self respect, respect for others, manners, morals, and yes...RELIGION (not a specific religion, but the basic knowledge that there is something bigger than all of us). So many of my kids don't realize that actions do have consequences because they have never been taught this anywhere else. I will continue to allow my students an opportunity to pray and pledge the flag. Thus said.....if you don't want me teaching basic human respect (for which I rely on my umbringing in a centralized religion), then parents need to get off their lazy butt and do it so I don't have to! Flame away........ -- Hot Mama At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SBS 0 #207 June 29, 2002 (with the basic idea being that u need to bind yourself to an eternal power in order for all the categories of good and evil to be available to you) ------------ I, for one, would tend to agree with you on this point, but that external source need not be god. Some of the most immoral, meanest, most aweful people in the world are religious, and some of the most wonderful people are agnostic, athiest, or belong to some other religion. If God is the source of goodness and morality, your god, that is, then these people would be, by definition, immoral...an accusation which I believe is untrue. The idea of good being god's will is not a standard of ethics, it is a standard of obedience...it is not "do you do something good?", but "is what you do in obedience to god". Technically, if good is defined by the will of god, then if he told you to kill someone, that would be a pious act. Most would retort, "but god wouldn't say that". You have said, though, that you know god's nature, by saying that you know what he would say or not. So, which came first, the chicken or the egg? Do you use god's will, of which you cannot be sure, to define what is good, or did you see what you thought to be good, hear that god is good, and then say, "oh, this is good, it must have come from god"? I am not trying to argue theology, but I just don't think that it is fair to judge the beliefs of others in the way that some choose. Steve ---------------_____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SBS 0 #208 June 29, 2002 But there are many creatures on this planets that are a bunch of cells....wht makes us any better than they are this planet could have done fine without us (mabe) -------------- This goes right along with the question "How can life have meaning of god doesn't exist?" My question is, who ever said that life HAD to have meaning? Who ever said that we are better? Personally, I like to refer back to the Matrix, where the agent says, "Humans are a cancer of the earth". I couldn't have said it better myself...we are the ones that will destroy this planet and everything on it...how superior are we? Seems to me that our own self destruction puts us at a DISadvantage to all the other creatures that live in peaceful balanced ignorance. -S_____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Engovatov 0 #209 June 29, 2002 >"In God we Trust" Well - having something printed out somewhere does not bother me. Requiring young kids to recite some mumbo-jumbo whacky ideas of a particular monothestic religion does. Religion has no place in public schools. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Engovatov 0 #210 June 29, 2002 >The above quote doesn't say anything about the >separation of church and state. All it says is that >you can't pass laws favoring one religion over >another. >Try again.... Phrase "In God we Trust" assumes there is God, and whoever uses the money trusts in "him". That's government imposing one, quite narrow, view of the world. That violates 1st amendment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Engovatov 0 #211 June 29, 2002 QuoteThese kids have no morals values, are not disciplined, and do not value life. The chances of them becoming productive citizens is almost nil. Face it folks, the parents are not doing the job either! And you somehow believe that insisting on existence of some supernatural being (in whom we, also, "trust") will somehow make them inherently more moral? To value life? Just like Crusaders did? What a bunch of bullshit. I am not anti-religion - but somehow it happened that the most amoral, nasty and disgusting people I met where highly religious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #212 June 30, 2002 QuoteIf praying to god would make him intervene on your behalf, how come he doesn't seem to do it very often? How do you know how many times God HAS intervened and averted a tragedy, thanks to the prayers someone said? _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #213 June 30, 2002 QuoteMy school is 85% black, 15% caucasian, and 5% other. Do you also teach math? Just teasin'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,989 #214 June 30, 2002 >So many of my kids don't realize that actions do have consequences > because they have never been taught this anywhere else. I will > continue to allow my students an opportunity to pray and pledge the > flag. I think everyone should get the opportunity to do that. I think the discussion is more along the lines of making it mandatory . . . if someone in your classroom didn't want to say "under god" because of their religious beliefs (i.e. they believe in a polytheistic religion, or are atheists) would that be OK with you? >Thus said.....if you don't want me teaching basic human respect (for > which I rely on my umbringing in a centralized religion), then >parents need to get off their lazy butt and do it so I don't have to! I agree, that's something that should come from parents. If your religion helps you in your attempt to teach kids, great. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mouth 0 #215 June 30, 2002 Bill.....as long as they believe that there is something bigger than they are. Without that flag (under God or not) that so many have fought to protect who knows what this country would be like????? Oh yeah....I do teach Math....but you knew that silly! -- Hot Mama At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Engovatov 0 #216 June 30, 2002 Quoteas long as they believe that there is something bigger than they are. Without that flag (under God or not) that so many have fought to protect who knows what this country would be like????? Aahh... childhood memories.. "Before my comrades, I solemnly swear: to live, to study and to work according to the will of Great Lenin" (my crappy translation - sounded much nicer in Russian). "The flag of the Fatherland, the happiness of the people - leading us to the triumph of the Communism" Would that work too? Hey, communists claimed exactly the same ideals - justice, prosperity, high moral values. My high school friends were all nice kids - even though they all were atheists. They did not do drugs - well maybe some vodka You say - communist's practice was different that stated ideals - I say - same for the Christians, or any other major believe system. Just look at our respected child molesters.. err... priests. How is these "under God" rituals are any better then "Young Communist League" rituals? Stated purpose was the same.. That what particularly freaks me out - I have been to the other side of this story - that started in 1954 with this pledge addition. It looked awfully the same shit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #217 July 1, 2002 Albert Einstein once said that god does not play dice with the universe. I can not rule out the idea of a creator even thought I think there is not one. If we thought assume there is a creator it will be outside the universe thus outside space and time. Being outside our limited dimensions makes it most likely any sort of communication impossible. Also the whole life span of the universe would seem like a split of a “second” for it. If you build a sealed box you are outside of it not inside. Again god as seen by virtually all religions is a delusional image. Praying for god is most definitely only tighten up with personal positive reinforcement. Moreover life after death is not feasible as the word itself imply, life and death are in some sense each other’s opposite. Yes all we are is a bunch of neurons connected in the most complex and beautiful network known the man that took four billions of years of evolution to master itself. By the way I broke my big toe nail during a not so splendid landing yesterday! CoolMemento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #218 July 1, 2002 QuoteJust look at our respected child molesters.. err... priests. I think that should say "some" priests. Not all priests are child molesters. _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SublimeBreeze 0 #219 May 19, 2004 QuoteYeah....might give kids the idea that God, honor, and country is a bad thing to hold in high regard. What a bunch of idiots..... It is.. Especially if its forcing people into your belief system. honor has litle to do with god as well as country. Sean Sean In Thailand Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squirrel 0 #220 May 19, 2004 QuoteAnd our money is next. It says "In God we trust". That's got to go too. Separation of Church and State. Chris and that is exactley why i use visa! ________________________________ Where is Darwin when you need him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #221 May 19, 2004 QuoteNo. I don't think so. Just do what is called for in the U.S. Constitution and separate Church and State. Pretty simple really. And your wrong. Nowhere does it say "Seperation of Church and State" QuoteBill of Rights Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. What it DOES say is that the law will not back an ESTABLISHMENT of religion. That is to say back a Government Church, such as the Church of England. It does not say Jack about not being religious, in fact it gives you the right to be. Which would say that if kids wanted to say the pledge, or pray they should be allowed...But we don't let them pray in school...And THAT is against the first amendment. People always get the Constitution wrong. Its pretty clear really. This one and the second ammendment are always read wrong..They are both very clear."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sangiro 24 #222 May 19, 2004 Are you guys actually responding to posts that are 2 years old? I'm impressed. Safe swoops Sangiro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #223 May 19, 2004 QuoteAre you guys actually responding to posts that are 2 years old? I'm impressed. Some people just want something to argue about i guess, maybe speakers corner was getting a little boring for them. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #224 May 19, 2004 QuoteAre you guys actually responding to posts that are 2 years old? I'm impressed Slow day at work. Besides you responded as well...HeHe"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #225 May 19, 2004 I want to know how this thread got the little red face. www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
