It is Time for This Nonsense to Stop!

[billvon 2,989]

>i know this much from my experience from drilling oil and gas wells,
> the deeper you drill, the hotter the bottom hole tempertuature is,
> now that's a scientific fact. funny corelation, coincidence? who knows,
> i don't believe anyone can say for sure, but is is a strange
> coincidence at least.

I think everyone is entitled to believe whatever they choose. Just so I am clear on this - you believe it is possible that, towards the center of the earth, there's a physical chamber with a devil in it that god sends bad people to after they die in order to torment them?

> you CANNOT make a believer out of a NON BELIEVER . . .
> it's an exercize in futuilty, believe me, i've had extended
> conversations with geologists of which out of maybe 100, i've met
> one who does not think the world "just happened" the "big bang"
> theory is fairly popular, but if you read the bible, and corelate it to
> present day occurences, it's pretty sobering.

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean that a geologist who believes the earth was formed via natural physical forces, over the course of billions of years, can not believe in god?

[rgoper 0]

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean **that a geologist who believes the earth was formed via natural physical forces, over the course of billions of years, can not believe in god?**

i NEVER made that remark.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[rgoper 0]

**I think everyone is entitled to believe whatever they choose. Just so I am clear on this - you believe it is possible that, towards the center of the earth, there's a physical chamber with a devil in it that god sends bad people to after they die in order to torment them?**

i NEVER made this remark either.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[quade 4]

He's simply asking for clairification of your statements, which at times are somewhat difficult to understand.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rgoper 0]

but thanks, what you did for me is clarify my suspicions, and what i believe are your fears. if in fact there is no heaven, and no hell, why would these referenced experiences alert you? why, you've nothing to fear. remember, no heaven, no hell, no god, or higher "being" NO WORRIES! but i stand by my statement of "there will be quite a few enlightned individuals at the final day"

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[rgoper 0]

i beg to differ sir. they are not hard to understand as long as one is in full possession of his/her own facilities. again, my opinion, of which i'm afforded under the constitution of which much reference has been made.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[nws01 0]

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towards the center of the earth, there's a physical chamber with a devil in it that god sends bad people to after they die in order to torment them?

So you mean that story is like the Santa Clause, Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy stories. Damn.

[quade 4]

See, this is a perfect example.

You appear to be writing to yourself and at least a couple of those sentances are very difficult to parse.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[SBS 0]

you can believe whatever you want, but KNOW this: "there is an up, and there is a down" and DOWN ain't so nice.

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Um...I may or may not believe that, but technically, in order to know something, it has to have been proven as fact...otherwise, it is still a belief, which cannot be known by the actual meaning of the word.

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i know this much from my experience from drilling oil and gas wells, the deeper you drill, the hotter the bottom hole tempertuature is, now that's a scientific fact. funny corelation, coincidence?

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If that is the case, then the higher we go, the colder it is, and in heaven there will be snow and ice...I don't want to go there either. I would venture to say that it is a coincidence that has no meaning in the slightest. The up/down idea is a very physical, superficial, worldly view of spirituality.

-S

_____________
I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

[skybytch 273]

Everyone....

Let's not resort to personal attacks. This thread has somehow managed to stay remarkably free of them...

Just a friendly reminder from your neighborhood watch bytch

[rgoper 0]

**You appear to be writing to yourself and at least a couple of those sentances are very difficult to parse.**

it appears to me that your attempts at making me look foolish are only uncovering your own foolishness. i've never tried to "parse" anything to my best recollection. this isn't rocket science people, it's differences in opinions.

is it a scientific fact that the closer to the center of the earth is hotter? yes, it most certainly is. does the bible refer to hell being in the depths of the earth, yes, it most certainly does. do i believe that a fallen angel fomerly known as michael was cast out of heaven, into the depths of hell for all eternity by god, yes, i do. there, now we can be friends again! is this clear enough for you? remember now, play nice, everybody gets to have their own opinion! this one is mine. have a great evening!

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[SBS 0]

"there will be quite a fewenlightned individuals at the final day"

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This is probably the truest sentence in the entire thread...

The problem is that until we are there, we don't know who it will be that is enlightened. Who will it be, God, Allah, Buddha, Yahweh, etc. standing before us when we die, if anybody? To whom will he/she say, "sorry guys, nice try, but you were way off"?

-S

_____________
I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

[landmissle 2]

I'll say AMEN to that!

Hopefuuly, this is somthing we can ALL agree on!

Feet up, heads down, blue skies WWOD?

Landmissle

[quade 4]

Quote

i've never tried to "parse" anything to my best recollection.

Perhaps you're right.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[SBS 0]

i've never tried to "parse" anything to my best recollection.

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Parse means "to analyze"...he was saying that it's hard to analyze what you said.

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remember now, play nice,everybody gets to have their own opinion!

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I'm sorry, was it nice to refer to Quade as a fool, when he was saying that your posts were hard to understand?

-S

_____________
I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

[rgoper 0]

i could, but i won't verbally "spar" with you. consider this my last word on the matter. again, have a nice evening!

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[skybytch 273]

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everybody gets to have their own opinion! this one is mine.

Yes it is. And you've expressed it seven times in this thread alone. Referring to the Forum Rules and Etiquette, which can be found in the Announcements forum - repeating yourself is likely to make you unpopular...

[Sinkster 0]

You may not be certain, but I am. And yes, I will DARE say that I am, even after a few years of philosophy to get me sufficiently jaded. I am staking the rest of my life on it.

However, like rgoper says, all our arguing is futile. The idea of demonstrating that God exists, could scarcely suggest itself to reason. For if God does not exist it would of course be impossible to prove it, and if he does exist it would be folly to attempt it.

This is what is sad when one contemplates human life, that so many live out their lives in quiet lostness ... they live, as it were, away from themselves and vanish like shadows. Their immortal souls are blown away, and they are not disquieted by the question of its immortality, because they are already disintegrated before they die.

[SBS 0]

i could, but i won't verbally "spar" with you.

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a) I asked a simple question
b) I sort of thought this was a discussion...seems to me that calling someone a fool is what will start a spar. I don't think that I have been that disrespectful at any point in this thread.

-S

_____________
I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

[quade 4]

Quote

do i believe that a fallen angel fomerly known as michael was cast out of heaven, into the depths of hell for all eternity by god, yes, i do.

Interesting. I always thought his former name was Lucifer. I could have sworn Michael was the Archangel God appointed to fight Lucifer.

http://www.waroftheangels.com/who-is-satan.html

http://encarta.msn.com/find/Concise.asp?ti=04AE3000

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/s/satan.html

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 2,989]

>>I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean **that a geologist who
>> believes the earth was formed via natural physical forces, over the
>> course of billions of years, can not believe in god?**

>i NEVER made that remark.

That's why I am asking if that's what you meant. You said you cannot make a believer out of a non believer, and then went on to relate a story about how only one of 100 geologists thought that the world was created rather than "just happened." Are those two thoughts related at all?

>>**I think everyone is entitled to believe whatever they choose. Just
>> so I am clear on this - you believe it is possible that, towards the
>> center of the earth, there's a physical chamber with a devil in it
>> that god sends bad people to after they die in order to torment
>> them?**

>i NEVER made this remark either.

Again, I am hoping for clarification. You said "KNOW this - there is an up and down, and down ain't so nice" and then said that the earth's temperature increases with depth. Are those two thoughts related? Were you referring to the concept of hell, or was it just drilling trivia?

I am not trying to make fun of you; heck, most of my family believes that hell is red, hot and has devils in it. I just wanted to understand, because right now I don't understand what you're saying.

[cloud9 0]

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So slavery is mentioned; but that is OK to abolish completely. Yet god is mentioned, and therefore the intent was to always preserve the relationship between god and country?

Not exactly, you see the country was not founded on the belief of slavery. That was simply a way of life at the time. There was an amendment end of story. However the country was founded on the belief of human rights given by our creator. It was founded with freedom of religion in mind. In fact that was a very important point. Seperation of church and state never meant seperation of God and state. Everything our founding fathers did included God. They paryed before every meeting while drafting the constitution. When you swear in at court you do it on a bible. Even in the dates on the constitution it is in the Year of our Lord. The very dates you use daily are in reference to Jesus. It is very obvious the founding fathers never intended for the use of God to be unconstitutional. Only a twisted mind could look at everything they did and still say that they meant for the use of God to be unconstitutional.

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Liberals have been trying for years to twist the words of our constitution, this time it won't work!" It has worked many times in the past. It got rid of slavery,

Well I guess if you want you can give that credit to liberals I wouldn't but that's another point.
What I meant was look at the gun control issue. The right of the people to keep and bear arms. The people is used many times in the consitituion and everywhere else to liberals it means the people, but when it comes to guns suddenly it doesn't really mean the people. Freedom of the press and of speach. Can you honestly say you think our founding fathers meant or would approve of public profanity or pornography selling in local stores? It doen't take a genius to answer of course not. So then was that not twisted to fit what a liberal wanted and not what the framers of the constitution intended?

I can see we're on different ends of the spectrum and I guess checks and balances are not always a bad thing. But this time the conservatives will win!

[ltdiver 3]

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Interesting. I always thought his former name was Lucifer. I could have sworn Michael was the Archangel God appointed to fight Lucifer.

Quite correct.

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[SBS 0]

You may not be certain, but I am.

For if God does not exist it would of course be impossible to prove it, and if he does exist it would be folly to attempt it.

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I agree with the second statement, and I agree that your God may very well exist, but these two statements are contradictory. Having been into philosophy, you should be familiar with the notion of "you may know, but you don't know that you know". This, to me, completely applies to this situation.

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This is what is sad when one contemplates human life, that so many live out their lives in quiet lostness

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I completely agree. Where we will most likely disagree is who we believe are lost.


-S

_____________
I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

[skyhawk 2]

religion is stupid it has 2 main purposes, 1. control 2. answers both from the ancient times a thought the old druids priests etc of the ancient world where held with utter admiration and many where thought to be above human, they where also able to comunicate with there gods, which today we say is rubbish cause zeus and thor and Ra etc dont exist. 1. the explain bit came from when we could think it explained how things happened and why the more we understood the less was attributed to particuler gods which eventually started to join as one.2. power Think about it in a very very turbalant time where we where "relitively" new to nations in a large settled area they needed a way to control , national pride wasnt really a thing, most people where looking for a way to just eat and would happily hand over there "nation" for food, so what do the rulers do, hmm how about our religion united under our gods, the same gods that will protect us in battle and give us wealth, in times of trouble it wasnt because of bad leadership it was because the gods where angry, it helps alot in battle if your truly believe that not only is "the real god" on your side but if you die in battle you will go to the greatest of the heavans.

however these civilizations died out (romans, egyptians etc) and where replaced by lots of smaller groups out of nowhere the british (and related) empire started to flurish however this time with just one god, this god kept a. all of the peasants in line b. gave the same battle edge as the ancient gods (i.e the crusades, which had nothing to do with "spreading the word" but instead taking over valuable land)also a large percentage took up paganism at this time which the goverment saw as a threat to there god so blamed everything bad on them (the witch hunts) because they where following lucifer (which they didnt believe in)

which brings us to today, most ppl are highly independant and reasonably smart, they dont rely on the government to supply them and with there gained skills are able to travel to multiple countrys and societys they also have a basic understanding of how things work like rain and floods, droughts etc. the more independant we get the further we leave religion (i.e it was/is the norm for my parent generation to go to church, it is the norm for my generation to not go)

oh yer and 1 more thing religion gives is hope no matter how bad your life wether it be 10bc rome 15th century britan or modern day compton if you do good you will go to a place so great its unimaginable and it will be forever, a concept so big most ppl cant even conprehend it.

im not saying there isnt a god, or an alien that bought life to earth or what ever religion may of had its seating in truth however i can say without a doubt no religion on this earth is perfectly right and they have all evolved to suit the nation, also i dont think its a conspiracy either, most ppl in charge most likly did think they where right.

(also in egypt the entire country once swapped religions(to christian) this lasted for the entire rule of the pharoh and was then gotten rid of)