Anti-americanism explained

[Shark 0]

FFF,

Tally ho... What's the ROE?! What?! Weapons free? Gotta good tone!

Got yer six, buddy....

[Michele 1]

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For those of you who don't understand all the anti-americanism in Europe, just take a look at any of the anti-french threads floating around. Nothing wrong with slamming the french, but don't get your knickers in a knot when someone else does the same to the US. People who live in glass houses and all that.

Since I was one of those who asked for help understanding anti-americanism, it would be interesting to note that I have NOT opened that thread, and do not intend to. My clicking into a thread I KNOW will be inflammatory and inciteful is ridiculous, and do nothing more than support the posters and encourage them ala trolling...

I asked for help understanding this stuff from a sincere position. Too bad that others decided to do whatever they did and get it locked before I could continue the discussions. Too bad others let emotions get out of control and personal attacks prevail instead of giving me information so that I can make up my mind about what I believe. Too bad people from all countries are participating in the "bash them" attitude instead of researching the issue and posting something thoughtful and honestly articulating their position. It was "sound bite" posting...which doesn't tell the story, but makes great headlines. I was asking (and still am) for the story, not the damned headlines. Why, for example, do only 4% of Americans hold passports, and where can I verify that stat (I searched, but couldn't find a reliable site with that info on it...).

For those who've tried their best to educate me, I do very much appreciate it. For the pm's and responses to an honest query I thank you. For those who're just looking to whack someone around for whatever idealism they hold dearest, screw off. I want to understand it. I don't. And I'm willing to look at the situation from several different points of view, as long as said view is offered and not shoved down my throat. And that, global friends and neighbors, is about respect. Pure and simple.

Just my 2 cents. Keep the change.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[kmcguffee 0]

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Nothing wrong with slamming the french, but don't get your knickers in a knot when someone else does the same to the US.

Bill, you have been critic number one of the US since I've been on these forums. When Non-Americans criticize the US you are the first to agree with them. That has went on for quite a while and you've never corrected them for being mean. What is the deal?

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

[billvon 3,076]

>Bill, you have been critic number one of the US since I've been on
> these forums. When Non-Americans criticize the US you are the first
> to agree with them. That has went on for quite a while and you've
> never corrected them for being mean. What is the deal?

It doesn't bother me when people criticize the US or other countries - free speech and all that. If it does bother you to hear other countries criticize the US, then don't criticize other countries.

That's the deal.

[Trent 0]

I've lived in France (since we somehow got on the subject). I have a few good friends in France (as if that will help qualify my statement). I can pretty much say, from experience, that French people seem to like making a sport of nitpicking American culture. I just laughed and said no one was perfect.

The best part is, I had lunch with some co-workers who were really fired up about us ignorant Americans. The only time they stopped telling me how bad my country is, was to bite into their Le Big Mac.

Oh, hello again!

[VectorBoy 0]

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Again jokes in bad taste against groups does not help the cause.

Which puts me into an endless loop that I just can't seem to get out of.

Can we make fun of Saddam Hussein or does the rule about personal attacks apply to him as well?

I say no, let's make fun of him, but I'm curious what others might think.

You can't do any better than what they did in Hot shots part deu, I love that movie. Glen

[Speer 0]

Michele,

I'm not sure I can help you understand "Anti-Americanism", but I will give you a few idle thoughts from a not so idle fellow... and, are you willing to look / listen for the truth? (and I don't mean my truth)... it might make you unpopular with the "enlightened" ones... And I apologize, for I cannot condense this into fewer words.

Human nature is fairly universal as long as you correct for regional / cultural proclivities. Thus:

*We're happy when our friends have good fortune
*We're jealous when that good fortune is staggering
*We're resentful if we're left behind
*It becomes far easier to be resentful (and place blame elsewhere) if we're left behind because of our own poor choices
*Everyone is afraid of the Emperor's power, even if he is a good Emperor
*When doing the right thing is costly, there is temptation to justify not doing it
*Any lousy, lame ass reason can be CALLED an EXCUSE if you want it to be
*Rhetoric is usually preferred over action (less accountability)
*Wishful thinking is generally valued more than action (especially actions based on conviction)
*Professing a love for peace is believed to absolve you from the obligation to do the unpleasant things such as killing bad people (same line of thought as refusing to teach a child discipline when punitive actions are indicated)
*Peer pressure (need I say more?)
*Finally, Everyone resents the one guy who, speaking out of conscience, urges the "crowd" to do what is right even though it is costly

A Study of Americas founding fathers, and the framework that they put together for our countries construction is very telling. Rules were few, but they were far reaching and based on moral principles. They defined the obligations of a Moral society. They were not concerned with expediency, or profit (the price they paid on a personal basis is staggering). Individuals and entities were held accountable for their actions. This is our legacy, and I believe, the underlying reason for the "bounty that we have been the recipients of" (quoting Pres. Lincoln) There is a group in Texas, called "Wallbuilders" that has assembled fascinating documentary info on the founding of America (they show a religious background, it is history).

I'll try to wrap this up without pontificating...

What is going on today? What is the benefit in action / inaction of the parties involved? Who's behaviour is self-serving, to the harm of others?

Do some searching and reflect on basic action of the various parties over the last hundred years...yes I believe that is a clue to current motivation (most cultures take many generations to "change their stripes", and an honest study of history will show that).

This pending war is NOT ABOUT OIL! Anyone who says that is ignorant, lying, or wanting to muddy the water. Oil is a concern since it effects major change to the GLOBAL ECONOMY when there are fluctuations. The statements that this war will be fought to improve the economy of the US is ridiculous. It is in fact likely to hurt our economy, at least in the short term. And although critics of the US love to say we are greedy and take advantage of those we supposedly subjugate, where are the colonies / possessions that we have raped and stolen from? Where have we conquered someone and then plundered their assets? Have we hurt others? HELL YES! Have we sometimes been inconsistent or given in to making a choice in our own best interest? HELL YES AGAIN! And we ought to feel the appropriate shame for willful violation of others! HOWEVER, the "flavor" of American intervention has seldom resulted in the subjugation of, or worsening lifestyles for those we involved ourselves with. In fact, we have generally extended the hand of friendship, motivated by conscience to restore, to the subdued. We may have applied unwelcome morals and customs as we went, but along with that we built schools, hospitals, and infrastructure to support physical and economic growth. Is that resented? Apparently so...and I suppose it is fair to say we Americans have developed an arrogance that rubs our old "friends" nose's in the dirt.

Having said that America is not in it for the cheap oil (We have always paid dearly for resources from abroad) , who is buying most of the Iraqi oil and is selfishly motivated? Who has in the past, and continues at a reduced rate, to supply technology and equipment that has given Iraq the ability to produce weapons of mass destruction? Who has relatively large populations of Islamic emigrants living within their borders? Who is indignant about the upstart young country that has had the good fortune(?) to become the "Hyper-Power"?

Iraq has used WMD on their own (well not Saddam's) people. Iraq HAS had ties to terrorists. They have openly offered to pay for suicide bombers (rewards to their families).

We want to destroy the bad guys. They want to maintain "Status Quo".

Some countries do not want to rock the boat, and perhaps, to soothe their conscience, they feel compelled to vilify us.

Are we right? Are they right? The answer depends on what is important to you.

Russ

Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

[Michele 1]

Hi, Russ...

Wow, thanks. I do appreciate it greatly. I will re-read that several times to make sure I've got the points you were trying to get across before I respond indepth.

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are you willing to look / listen for the truth?

Yes. In this context, I would really like to hear honest thoughts from people about this issue, as I don't understand it at all. Perhaps I am naive, or something...but I just don't get the rampant namecalling by anyone when the issues are not about that - they go far deeper and are far more heavily rooted in the soil. I believe that the namecalling is more like the feeder roots, widespread, shallow, and serving a purpose. I am just not exactly sure what purpose.

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it might make you unpopular with the "enlightened" ones

I don't care about popularity. I try to get as much information from different sources on something like this, and then make up my own mind. But, being Irish, once my mind is made up, I tend to stick to it.

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And I apologize, for I cannot condense this into fewer words.

LOL, it's nothing to me. You haven't read my "stories" yet, have you? I can ramble on forever before getting to a wee small point. At least you've managed to convey a great deal of information in a fairly reasonable length...not something I'm terribly good at.

Like I said, I'll take the time to read and think about your points before I address them, or ask questions about them.

And I really do appreciate your taking the time to express yourself with respect and courtesy.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[skyhawk 2]

sorry this was from the other thread but it was locked

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Beautiful beaches?? Do I hear the words "Great White Shark" here? .

what do sharks have to do with beaches, there are some but the majority of beaches are shark free.

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I think I'd try to escape a country that was founded on criminal colonies and never had the strength to stand on it's own feet

wtf that was 200yrs ago, how have we never had the strength to stand on our own feet, we have asssisted in pretty much every war since becoming a nation, almost all of the time backing up either the UK or US, infact we sent and lost troops in vietnam, korea, the gulf etc etc, we have also already sent troops to the gulf for this time round and have been behind the US for the last 50 yrs as we count you as both friends and allies, we have paid for this not only in wartime but also bali and the no doubt numerous attempted attacks on aus by al queda and their allies because we back you. We have no beef with iraq i doubt that saddam has any interest at all in attacking australia we are there to help because you are our friends, infact not only does bush regard our prime minister as a close friend but all of our past prime ministers have had very close relationship with the white house.

i think the statment that we"never had the strength to stand on it's own feet" is extremly wrong as we have been behind the US alot more than the US hass been behind us, and i think our efforts and contributions arnt to bad as we are only a 10th the size of america


also we have plenty to do and see without leaving australia, we are hugly ethnicly diverse (eg we have the largest greek population outside of greece) and naturaly most groups tend to group together so experiencing a different cultare is usaually just a matter of driving to a different part of the city, we have pretty much every type of ecological area so we dont need to leave to experience anything specific, we leave because as a nation we like to explore, to learn and experience things, places and people and broaden our horizens.

[Scratch 0]

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France dumps on the US simply because it cannot compete with the US on any other level - cultural, political, military.

Oh dear.
This is truly the funniest statement I have read on Dizzydotcom for a long time.

[Tonto 1]

I am proud of South Africa. I served/fought/bled for her - but that doesn't make apartheid right.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

Hiya guys, jumping in kinda late, its time zone thang.......

Firstly looking at the title.....Shouldn't that be
anti-Americanism...?
LOL.....


Please don't confuse anti-war, or even anti-Bush(hell lets throw in anti-Blair too), with anti-American.
I am anti war, (until somebody offers me more conclusive evidence and/or justification but lets not start on that one again) but I am not, repeat NOT, anti-American.
When I object to the war, I am not trying to disrespect any member of the armed coalition, my criticism is of the politicians (and I mean politicians in a global, not local sense) on both sides of the Atlantic, and around the world who have let things come to this sorry state.

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[dkearns 0]

Not directed at you Tanto just the closest reply button.

Anti Amaricanism explained thats a tough one. I've lived and worked in the Middle East for two years in Kuwait and Qatar. I know people from all over the world US, Britain, Austrailia, Pakistan, India, Lebanon, Philipenes and a heaps of other countries. What it comes down to is we all live and work together and have freindships that can't be broken by what the leaders of our countries are doing. I often get asked why the US is doing what it is doing and I can't realy give them an answer. Do they hate me because I'm an American? No. Do I hate them? No. So why the anti Americanism in the world? Simple our government often times sticks it's nose in where it doesn't belong. The other people don't really hate Americans they hate what our government does. We often send people in to an area to help but due to our culture we think that since we are there we might as well be in charge and damn the indiginous people that have other ideas on how things should operate. (they thought we were there just to help). So we strut in and start taking over and the next thing you know they are left standing there with no job, no say and no clue what is going to happen next. Who do you think they are going to blame. I have seen it a hundred times. The loud American walks in starts booming orders and steps all over their customs, religion and ideas. Granted the American has a job to do and we are very goal orientated people. But what it all comes down to is we as Americans are basically ingnorant and calous to their ideals. I really don't see it ever changing because our attitude is based on aciving goals and when we go some where it's usually because there is some sort of problem. ( hey I can fix that and I will no matter what ). What to do what to do? I don't know, I know I'll just keep doing the same as I ever did. Respect their customs and work with people instead of making them feel that they work for me.

Yes I did my time in the military and I still work with them. Do I think the present course of action is correct? Not nessicarily. You can' have ten years of no enforcement and expect someone to all of the sudden follow all the rules. It is to bad that the people of DZ.Com is not in charge we could do a poll to find out the best course of action and get up the next day and go jump.

Shite, I've rambled long enough.

Peace.

Doug

[CornishChris 5]

I can't be bothred to write anything long as I am at work. I just wanted to say (and others probably have) that:

Disagreeing with the US is not Anti-US. To assume it is is to assume the US is right and everyone else is wrong.

Let's just hope war is not inevitable because it can never be good and I have too many friends in the army I would be devastated to lose.

Blue ones.

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[suz 0]

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Apart from that lot everybody else is OK in my book!

*Suz does a happy dance*

This is pretty sad. The whole world has gone into depression...or maybe just me...But I am god after all.
Just kiss and make up. We are all skydivers and we have our wee little world here. Please dont throw bad tomatoes at eachother, pretty, PRETTY please?

Don't bother me, I'm living happily ever after

[bluepill 0]

Yeh I agree.
Some may agree some may not but either way if you dont like what Mr Bush is doing then make him do what YOU want him to do by visiting this place..

http://www.onefunsite.com/dancingbush.shtml

I said a hip hop a hippy to the hop and bang bang.....

[suz 0]

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I said a hip hop a hippy to the hop and bang bang.....

BWHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Man...that's GOT to be in bold....that almost made me pee my pants!!!!!

Don't bother me, I'm living happily ever after

[ernokaikkonen 0]

>>Can we make fun of Saddam Hussein or does the rule
>>about personal attacks apply to him as well?
>
>
>Well, since Saddam presumably doesn't post/lurk here,
>I don't think making fun of him is technically personal.

Yeah, but when he signs up and reads all the old posts, some people might have to do some apologizing. Same goes for Dubya too, of course. And Blair. And....

[DiveLoop 0]

Did you had some French fries with it!

[Skyrad 0]

I answered your question on the other thread honestly and without the intention of taking a pop at anyone. If you don't like the answers Michele don't ask the questions.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[QuickDraw 0]

Great post Speer, it has all the hallmarks of a bystander, but your prifile says CA.
It takes a lot of will power to stand back and see through the smoke.

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Finally, Everyone resents the one guy who, speaking out of conscience, urges the "crowd" to do what is right even though it is costly

Anyone else thinking Billvon here ?

-- Hope you don't die. --

I'm fucking winning

[Michele 1]

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I answered your question on the other thread honestly and without the intention of taking a pop at anyone. If you don't like the answers Michele don't ask the questions.

'Scuse me? I don't think I named you, nor did I intend to name you. As stated, I appreciate all those who answered honestly without whacking another group of people around.

I shall continue to ask questions, and will take whatever answers are offered. And I shall continue to assess the situation based on the information provided. And I shall continue to make up my own mind. Should you not like the question, or any debate which may or may not follow, don't answer my questions, o.k.?

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Skyrad 0]

OOoooooooowwww........touchy!

Well here's something I found that may help you in your quest for knowledge.

http://www.vexen.co.uk/USA/hateamerica.html#Reasons

Section 3 is quite interesting. no hard feelings.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Michele 1]

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OOoooooooowwww........touchy!

Perhaps.

I'll check the link when I have time.

Edited to add: This is the kind of information I was looking for in the thread before. While I haven't had a lot of time to read it, it seems interesting, and I have bookmarked it for further perusal. However, my question to you is why didn't you give this link before on the other thread? I can already give you that there are some inaccurate claims in that website, but it's interesting to read other country's perspectives.



Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Skyrad 0]

I didn't give it before because I hadn't seen it at that point. I only went looking for it once you made me question wether my previous response to your question had been like a soundbite headline.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca