LouDiamond 1 #151 February 17, 2003 Hey, I'll leave the debating to all of you who feel you are informed and know all the facts. I'm not going to restate what I've already said. You and others continue to debate this issue in hopes of changing someones outlook in order to effect future decissions. I have stated what I KNOW and what I have seen with my own eyes and I offered it up for everyone to make their own mind up. We all know the old saying..."You can lead a horse to water...." Again, I'm not trying to belittle anyone, I'm telling it like it is. If that doesn't fit your interpetation of reality then drive on with what you know. My only question is "what color is the sky in your world?" A good example of that is your statement that the US is only a supemecy because other countries allow it. While part of me wants to laugh at that statement and debate the issue with you, I know better than to go down that road. I respect that the average citizen wants to get involved and has ideas and thoughts that are contridictory to what any administration might have, that's what makes the US different from other countries on the planet. Basics of the jungle will always rule this planet, the Alpha male will always dominate the pack and frankly gov'ts don't care what the citizens of other countries think about it, they only care about what other countries Gov'ts think about them. I find myself at an unfair advantage here because I am not the average Joe on the street. I have insight into things most don't and never will. I am only trying bring some levity to an otherwise turbulent subject that is full of gross inconsistencies from both stand points."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #152 February 17, 2003 QuoteHey, I'll leave the debating to all of you who feel you are informed and know all the facts. I'm not going to restate what I've already said. You and others continue to debate this issue in hopes of changing someones outlook in order to effect future decissions. I have stated what I KNOW and what I have seen with my own eyes and I offered it up for everyone to make their own mind up. We all know the old saying..."You can lead a horse to water...." If you "offered it up", I missed it. Can you give a link to the post where you offered it up?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KawiZX900 0 #153 February 17, 2003 OMFG!!!!!!!!!!! Accelerate hard to get them looking, then slam on the fronts and rollright beside the car, hanging the back wheel at eye level for a few seconds. Guaranteed reaction- Dave Sonsky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #154 February 15, 2004 This from exactly one year ago - before the war! Funny in retrospect. QuoteQuote Thanks, Kallend. I read that previously, but appreciate being redirected. While I do understand (and have considered quite before you brought "appropriate skepticism" into the debate) your position, and do agree with you on a level, I also offer the numerous times Iraq has lied, hidden, obfuscated, or obliterated the truth as part of the situation in toto. I do not believe everything handed to me as "fact". I do what I can to research and verify, ask and understand, and then formulate my position thereon. I also do not believe that the MiB are lurking in the hinterlands near Idaho, zooming around on silent helicopters and eviscerating cows randomly. In other words, Kallend, I do what I can to "trust but verify", and also add that I highly doubt that any government in the world, at any time, has been totally truthful with it's constituency...and I doubt there ever will be. The argument that the US government is lying to it's citizenry is isolationistic inasmuch as all governments do; and unless that is appreciated and acknowledged and factored into the equasion, singling out the US is spurious at best. Further, I do not expect the average citizen to get the "show me the money" evidence, nor would I expect that all our allies - who are not necessarily "allied" any longer - get it, either. There are many reasons for not tipping our HumInt hand, nor all the satillite (I never could spell that word) etc and so on, a primary one being that as information is released, the information gatherer is put at risk. For those who demand that we show everybody everything, I suggest that we consider this is NOT flashing to gain altitude, but rather far more serious and deadly a feat, and that sources are kept close to the belt, and should be so; I have not screamed at anyone to show me anything; rather, I have asked my questions, gathered information, thought about situations, and formulated my own opinion as to what I think. While I cannot say the same for all folks, I do believe a majority of people have done so. If your sole issue with me is my position, please provide further information - not rhetoric, but information - which I can then take into consideration. I am not as young as you seem to think; I am not as naive as you seem to think; and I am not as ill-informed as you seem to think. Should you have a piece of the puzzle for me to consider, please provide it. I always appreciate information additional to that which I had already considered, and have been known to change my mind (after all, I am a woman!). Ciels- Michele Did I ask to be "shown the money"? I just asked that some trusted source independent of the administration should be shown the money. I think you're putting words in my text now. And I can't for the life of me imagine why the administration won't share the intelligence (if they really have it) with the UN inspectors. If Blix stands up at the UN and says he has caught the Iraqis red-handed, that's the end of the hors d'oevres and straight on to the entree. Not even France could obstruct then. Unfortunately the stuff that Secretary Powell showed last week was not very convincing, not remotely as convincing as the presentation made by Adlai Stevenson during the Cuban Missile Crisis. In fact, some of it was so unconvincing that some people are suggesting the CIA set him up to look bad. You say you are not as young as I thought you were; maybe you remember Richard Nixon's secret plan to end the Vietnam war - a plan that couldn't be revealed for national security reasons. A plan that, after the election, turned out not to exist. Fool me once, shame on you, etc. The UN inspectors are doing the job set them under the UN enabling resolution. Until they report back that Iraq is out of compliance, we should let them do the job. The administration wants it both ways - action endorsed by the UN, but freedom to ignore the UN defined process for triggering that action. And continuing to piss on France doesn't help at all.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsled92 0 #155 February 16, 2004 It's good to see that you re-post to "yourself after 12 months. -keep in touch with you._______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #156 February 16, 2004 QuoteThis from exactly one year ago - before the war! Funny in retrospect. Pretty good, says a lot about your political saavy Kallend . . . time always tells the tale. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ian84 0 #157 February 16, 2004 QuoteFrance owes the US far more than we owe them. I may well be wrong but wasn't it the french that came to the aid of America during the war with the British for independence.......seems you have a lot to be thankful for. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ian84 0 #158 February 16, 2004 Quote>the Irish are too drunk . . . What's the difference between an Irish wedding and an Irish funeral? At the funeral there's one person who's not drunk. HEHE!!!!! More drink for the rest of us!!!!!!!! Hey.......Thats a Stereotype!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #159 February 16, 2004 QuoteUnfortunately the stuff that Secretary Powell showed last week was not very convincing, not remotely as convincing as the presentation made by Adlai Stevenson during the Cuban Missile Crisis. In fact, some of it was so unconvincing that some people are suggesting the CIA set him up to look bad. It appears he thinks so as well. Secretary of State Colin Powell became alarmed at the level of intelligence distortion. When he read the first draft of his speech to the UN -- prepared for Powell by Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff -- he was so upset that he lost his temper, throwing several pages in the air and declaring, "I'm not reading this. This is bullsh--." -US News & World Report, June 9, 2003 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #160 February 16, 2004 And the reason you brought up a post by me a year later is ??? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #161 February 16, 2004 QuoteAnd the reason you brought up a post by me a year later is ??? Ciels- Michele It was a post by ME, Michele. You were just quoted. Quite perceptive, I thought. Unlike the posts by the pro-war faction.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #162 February 16, 2004 QuoteQuoteThis from exactly one year ago - before the war! Funny in retrospect. Pretty good, says a lot about your political saavy Kallend . . . time always tells the tale. We do our best in trying times... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #163 February 16, 2004 QuoteIt was a post by ME, Michele. You were just quoted. Quite perceptive, I thought. Unlike the posts by the pro-war faction. Now, keep in mind I just took a codeine, so I am not terribly clear who you are calling perceptive....me or you? If you think I am perceptive, thank you. However, if you are congratulating yourself on your own perception, I leave that to speak for itself. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #164 February 16, 2004 Maybe he needs one of these. http://www.motivationalplus.com/Laugh%20Line/Laughline%2027.htm "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #165 February 16, 2004 QuoteMaybe he needs one of these. http://www.motivationalplus.com/Laugh%20Line/Laughline%2027.htm Pretty good. Here's a funny one you made a year ago. Well, it seems funny now. You were actually a voice of more reason than most. Re-reading Rhino's posts is really funny in retrospect. www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=380172#380172 Edited to add link to the post you were replying to. www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=379087#379087... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #166 February 16, 2004 Whatever, Kallend. I stand by what I said then. I did, however, re-read this entire thread, and really think that Speer was the most perceptive, and by far the most eloquent poster on this thread. Funny, somehow, I miss Speer's articulation, explanations, and perspective. As evidenced here, it was contributory and rather thought provoking. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vmsfreaky1 0 #167 February 16, 2004 QuoteIt really ISN'T about oil for America Oh yes it is! QuoteYour BBC reference just states what has been known for years. France (and Germany) have been significant trading partners with Iraq. Yes they have, and what has happened here is a VERY hostile takeover of their business. Who is gunna sell iraq their guns now? the French and anyone else aint allowed! QuoteDo any of you truly believe that Saddam's Iraq will not become a greater threat? The guy was freaking powerless, all his Arab buddies hated him he was basically no threat to any other country, especially the "greatest country in the world" that ended up invading, fancy that! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #168 February 16, 2004 QuoteDo some searching and reflect on basic action of the various parties over the last hundred years...yes I believe that is a clue to current motivation (most cultures take many generations to "change their stripes", and an honest study of history will show that). A lot of people, including those who should know better will keep on denying these facts."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #169 February 16, 2004 Quote The guy was freaking powerless, all his Arab buddies hated him he was basically no threat to any other country, especially the "greatest country in the world" that ended up invading, fancy that! Thank god he was, yes, he "only" was able to control 24 mill people lives mass murder at will and be a risk for those nations around......... And is there a part of the greatest country in the world, would you enlighten us with the name of the greates country? It is confusing, for there are 49 to choose from: Afghanistan Albania Angola Australia Azerbaijan Bulgaria Colombia Costa Rica Czech Republic Denmark Dominican Republic El Salvador Eritrea Estonia Ethiopia Georgia Honduras Hungary Iceland Italy Japan Kuwait Latvia Lithuania Macedonia Marshall Islands Micronesia Mongolia Netherlands Nicaragua Palau Panama Philippines Poland Portugal Romania Rwanda Singapore Slovakia Solomon Islands South Korea Spain Tonga Turkey Uganda Ukraine United Kingdom United States Uzbekistan "According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonSanta 0 #170 February 16, 2004 Please. Too Easy. Everyone knows Denmark is the greatest country in the world. Lots of people are just in denial. I'll arrange furryner-trips to DK, so they can learn how awesome we are and how we're right all the time. Except when we're wrong, but if we are it's usually not about anything that matters. Santa Von GrossenArsch I only come in one flavour ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
damion75 0 #171 February 16, 2004 QuoteThe anti American comments were coming from the French a long time before the anti French comments started up. Besides it's France that is criticizing the US for unilaterlism at the same time it goes into the Ivory coast to protect its interests. France dumps on the US simply because it cannot compete with the US on any other level - cultureal, political, military. And besides, the French only like the American Army when the German army is in Paris. France owes the US far more than we owe them. I agree! And as a Brit I am therefore automatically allowed to be as rude to Frenchmen as I like - Its part of my cultural heritage!*************** Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
damion75 0 #172 February 16, 2004 QuoteAnd perhaps you don't understand that other people have died and bled for their countries - and they take insults to their country no less seriously. If we're gonna make fun of France for being a "surrender monkey" then expect people to make fun of the US for being a warmonger. And just to prove a point... I believe the phrase was 'Cheese eating surrender monkey' if we are being strictly correct! After all, when was the last time a Frenchman bled for his country? Thats what the foreign legion are for!*************** Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #173 February 16, 2004 QuotePlease. Too Easy. Everyone knows Denmark is the greatest country in the world. Lots of people are just in denial. This reminds me of an English Lit. question: "Briefly explain the reasons for Hamlet's depression." The submitted answer was: "Hamlet suddenly found he was the King of Denmark. You would be depressed to be made king of a country that's only famous for pine furniture, pornography and pork products!" Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #174 February 16, 2004 QuotePretty good. Here's a funny one you made a year ago. Could you point out the part that was funny? I don't see it. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #175 February 16, 2004 QuoteQuotePretty good. Here's a funny one you made a year ago. Could you point out the part that was funny? I don't see it. I thought it funny that you chastised me for advising skepticism of the administration's "intelligence". In the light of events of the last year, of course, my skepticism seems really quite justified, don't you think? Of course, I can see why you might not think it so funny.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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