GWB speech last night

Steel · September 9, 2003

Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Don't even get me started

hey, dont get me wrong, i have absolutely no problem with morons. they make good cannon fodder. i just dont think they should be at the head of the class.

--------------------------------------
I guess you would have rathered have Gore up there hugging a tree while he made his Speech. Perhaps you miss Clinton standing by idolly while the U.S.S. Cole was bombed or the World trade center, for the first time in 1993. Or maybe you miss the national embarassment that we had when Jimmy Carter was in office causing the true Gas Crisis because of his stupidity and inability to deal with the Middle East. And, oh lets not forget about the hostages that proved the middle east knew what an idiot they were dealing with. Remember the 66, 52 of which were held for 444 days until we finally got a predident that was NOT and idiot (Reagan) in office.

All of the above, and don't forget Reagan increasing the national debt by some $4 trillion, burdening us and our children with a debt that will last forever.

-----------------------------
Come on Kallend I thought you were a college professer and knew better than that. I remember when I first heard about the national debt in high school, sophmore year (1989) that is was approaching three trillion. That was atleast one year after Reagan's presidency was over. But anyway all the irresponsible taxing and spending that occurred up to 1994 was passed by a Democrat congress. Isn't that right? See military action in repsonse is something the Comander in Chief can take care of. But getting a bunch of morons in Congress to pass a useful bill is not exactly a peice of cake.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

kallend · September 9, 2003

Quote
No I am not. I am stating that the upper earning portion of the populace pays a disproportionate amount of taxes. I DO want a flat tax - but only in conjunction with a national retail sales tax (exempting gasoline and groceries; BillVon HATES my gasoline exemption idea, but I like it).

The "upper earning portion of the populace" also makes off with a disproportionate amount of the county's resources, so it seems fair to me.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

kallend · September 9, 2003

Quote
I thought you said you weren't jealous. Hmmmm....

Keep their working hours sometime and get back to me if you have a problem with a CEO/CFO. I don't think your remarks will be as acrid after doing so.

Having 30% of the wealth doesn't equate to having 30% of the income for any given year. Are you proposing a wealth tax in lieu of an income tax? Absurd.

150 years ago an income tax was considered absurd. Why is one tax any more absurd than another?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

billvon · September 9, 2003

>See military action in repsonse is something the Comander in Chief can take care of.

Interesting that you should mention that. On 9/11, after the second plane hit the WTC, Chief of Staff Andrew Card told Bush "A second plane hit the second tower. America is under attack." He was sitting in a schoolroom in Florida listening to children read at the time for a photo opportunity.

Now, imagine you are the commander and chief of the US. You have been told America is under attack. That's all you know so far. Could be a concerted attack; could be just two planes, or four, or it could be to take out command posts (like the Pentagon) in preparation for a much larger attack. What would you do? Get on the horn with the Pentagon? Maybe ask your chief of staff what's happening, if perhaps a military response might be appropriate? Maybe find out if there's any indications of ICBM launches, rapid military deployments, or if there's been other unusual behavior that ATC has seen in the skies over the US?

Bush sat there, listening to children read, for five minutes. Then he spent a few more minutes posing with the teacher for the cameras. Interesting behavior for the commander in chief of the US when he has been told his country is under attack from unspecified foes.

I'm not so much critical of the guy for this as just totally baffled. What was he thinking that he figured it was more important to get some photo-ops with kids than deal with a concerted terrorist attack against the US?

BTW video of his photo op here.

kallend · September 9, 2003

Quote
Me, I'm paying 41% of my income in federal taxes. They're paying 20%. You call that fair?
-------------------------------------------------
I don't know what exactly your doing for a living but I seriously doubt you are truly paying 41% of your income to taxes. I do my own taxes through turbo tax but the bottomline in there is a total wages tips and etc and there is a total tax. By the time all my deductions were in place on my best year (which broke 6 figures noticeably), I still only payed in the end about 21%. Somebody earning more money I bet 8 out of ten times is in management which is making a serious percent of their money through stock options like you said before. People making less are definately paying less. Saying that your paying 41% means that either you need a new accountant or your simply mistaken.

The income tax isn't the only federal tax.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

kallend · September 9, 2003

Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Don't even get me started

hey, dont get me wrong, i have absolutely no problem with morons. they make good cannon fodder. i just dont think they should be at the head of the class.

--------------------------------------
I guess you would have rathered have Gore up there hugging a tree while he made his Speech. Perhaps you miss Clinton standing by idolly while the U.S.S. Cole was bombed or the World trade center, for the first time in 1993. Or maybe you miss the national embarassment that we had when Jimmy Carter was in office causing the true Gas Crisis because of his stupidity and inability to deal with the Middle East. And, oh lets not forget about the hostages that proved the middle east knew what an idiot they were dealing with. Remember the 66, 52 of which were held for 444 days until we finally got a predident that was NOT and idiot (Reagan) in office.

All of the above, and don't forget Reagan increasing the national debt by some $4 trillion, burdening us and our children with a debt that will last forever.

-----------------------------
Come on Kallend I thought you were a college professer and knew better than that. I remember when I first heard about the national debt in high school, sophmore year (1989) that is was approaching three trillion. That was atleast one year after Reagan's presidency was over. But anyway all the irresponsible taxing and spending that occurred up to 1994 was passed by a Democrat congress. Isn't that right? See military action in repsonse is something the Comander in Chief can take care of. But getting a bunch of morons in Congress to pass a useful bill is not exactly a peice of cake.

You're right, the national debt only went up by some $2 trillion under Reagan, although it was around a 300% increase, (the largest % jump under any president in peacetime), and it went up another trillion under Bush I. It went up around $1.6T during Clinton's 8 years, and has gone up $2T during Bush II's presidency. So, as we see, Republican administrations are more fiscally responsible.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

Muenkel · September 9, 2003

Quote
I'd bet just about everybody busts their butts to earn a living regardless of how much their paycheck is.

Either that or post whore.

_________________________________________
Chris

Steel · September 9, 2003

Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Don't even get me started

hey, dont get me wrong, i have absolutely no problem with morons. they make good cannon fodder. i just dont think they should be at the head of the class.

--------------------------------------
I guess you would have rathered have Gore up there hugging a tree while he made his Speech. Perhaps you miss Clinton standing by idolly while the U.S.S. Cole was bombed or the World trade center, for the first time in 1993. Or maybe you miss the national embarassment that we had when Jimmy Carter was in office causing the true Gas Crisis because of his stupidity and inability to deal with the Middle East. And, oh lets not forget about the hostages that proved the middle east knew what an idiot they were dealing with. Remember the 66, 52 of which were held for 444 days until we finally got a predident that was NOT and idiot (Reagan) in office.

All of the above, and don't forget Reagan increasing the national debt by some $4 trillion, burdening us and our children with a debt that will last forever.

-----------------------------
Come on Kallend I thought you were a college professer and knew better than that. I remember when I first heard about the national debt in high school, sophmore year (1989) that is was approaching three trillion. That was atleast one year after Reagan's presidency was over. But anyway all the irresponsible taxing and spending that occurred up to 1994 was passed by a Democrat congress. Isn't that right? See military action in repsonse is something the Comander in Chief can take care of. But getting a bunch of morons in Congress to pass a useful bill is not exactly a peice of cake.

You're right, the national debt only went up by some $2 trillion under Reagan, although it was around a 300% increase, (the largest % jump under any president in peacetime), and it went up another trillion under Bush I. It went up around $1.6T during Clinton's 8 years, and has gone up $2T during Bush II's presidency. So, as we see, Republican administrations are more fiscally responsible.

---------------------------------------
First of all there was a ton of useless spending put forth by the Democrat Congress during Reagan terms but as for the money he spent on national defense, it could not possibly have been better spent. After all he won the cold war. Something no Democrat could have ever done. Bush Senior brought us sucess in Iraq but unfortunately he did not have enough in him to tell the U.N. where to go and finish the job. Clinton did nothing but set us back as a country and Increase the national debt anyway. Dubya has had up to now the toughest challenge to deal with. Its worse than the Soviet Union was because our enemies are all over the world. The only hint that we have is that nine out of ten times (atleast) they are muslims. Up to now he has done a pretty damn good job and dealing with this crisis and the simple fact of the matter is that this unfortunately is costly.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

billvon · September 9, 2003

>Its worse than the Soviet Union was because our enemies are all
>over the world.

Not sure how old you are, but during the cold war many people in the US believed that a nuclear war, the deaths of tens of millions, and the resultant collapse of civilization as we know it, was imminent - people were building fallout shelters and kids were practicing diving under their desks to protect themselves from nuclear annihilation. If we were to tell them that the worst they had to fear over the next 50 years was a terrorist attack that killed 3000 americans, their reply would have been "thank god!"

In the 50's and 60's we risked world war and the deaths of at least millions, and the end of our way of life. Now, if all our fears are realized and we have another 9/11, we risk the deaths of thousands and the loss of a few buildings. Not even in the same ballpark.

I know, the time we live in now is always the worst, the terrorists, the evil dictators, oh the horror! Every generation says that. But any way you look at it, we risked a lot more during the 50's, 60's and early 70's than we're risking now.

Muenkel · September 9, 2003

Quote
Deal

Justin is good for 20 beers, you are good for two and I am good for two, so there is a case to begin with

From a very reliable source...I think we only need a six-pack.

_________________________________________
Chris

TheAnvil · September 9, 2003

Quote

The American way is supposed to be that no matter who you are or where you come from, if you work hard, and do the right thing, you have an equal opportunity to make it to the top. But the power and wealth consolidation by the elite gets stronger every day. There's a handful of families in this country that have shaped public policy and culture to their benefit for about a hundred years now. The American experiment in democracy is being sabotaged from within, and those with the power to stop it, don't want to.

Oh really? Last time I looked only a little over 1% of the millionaires in this country inherited their wealth. This would not be the case if the above argument held. Try again.