GWB speech last night

[wmw999 2,460]

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i do believe i have siezed the troll kings crown

Nah, if you check "who's online" you can see he's busy writing post reply.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[pds 0]

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Amen,a moron yes.An idiot no.Hey,he has to get the public behind him.Can you impeach a moron?Be nice wouldn,t it?

yes, there is a difference. thanks for noticing. i am just a simple guy that gleans what is necessary to be ready to duck. i dont care enough to gather and debate the minutia as is being done here. i just call em as i sees em.

namaste, motherfucker.

[jfields 0]

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sorry, didnt mean to parrot

No problem. I wasn't annoyed. Your out of the blue comment was hilarious in the context of the drawn-out debate we've been having.

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[livendive 8]

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I have not said a word on this whole thread. But, looking at some things I am seeing, it is time to add something to this.

To those of you out there, please understand that Steel's comments are his, and his alone. They should not be viewed as a reflection on the the views of the vast majority of conservatives.

While many pm this, I would prefer to publicly distance myself and conservatives from the views reflected therein.

Oh no you don't! You right-winger's ain't getting off THAT easy!

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[wmw999 2,460]

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I would prefer to publicly distance myself and conservatives

The beauty of being an individual is that you get to distance yourself from stuff like that. The problem with labels is that since others control them as much as you, you don't get to distance all conservatives -- they'll have to do that themselves.

But I don't really think most of the self-identified conservatives agree on this set of points... Maybe others, (there are things I agree with him on), but not this one.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Steel 0]

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Are you not familiar with Islamic Jihad?

Yes. I'm also familiar with the local Texaco station.
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I think a call for all people of a specific faith to get together and fight everybody else is more relevant to the disscussion.
===================================

I'm not sure what Islamic Jihad (other than the word Islamic) has to do with OBL and Saddam Hussein. Or are you scared to actually address the question I asked.
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I don't think it could be any clearer the fact that I believe that Muslims as a whole are much much more likely to sympathize with causes to destroy/kill non-muslims.
=============================
As far as parallels, well, if we can go back hundreds of years to the Islamic movement into Spain to show the nature of Islam, then why can't we go back hundreds of years to the Spanish Inquisition, to show the nature of Christian bigotry?
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You could but the main difference there is Christians have changed and we about to come up on the 2nd anniversary of 9/11 which proves Muslims have not.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

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[SkyDekker 1,465]

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No problem. I wasn't annoyed. Your out of the blue comment was hilarious in the context of the drawn-out debate we've been having.

something we all wanted to say, but hadn't. It was perfect timing and very very funny.

Sadly enough also very correct.

[lawrocket 3]

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Oh no you don't! You right-winger's ain't getting off THAT easy!

Despite my disavowal of his views, do not misconstrue that as my becoming a leftist pinko commie.

I don't know why you are even posting. Aren't there trees that need some hugging right now?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[lawrocket 3]

Heck, wendy, I agree with you on lots of stuff.

But I saw stuff about pm's being sent about disavowing it, and why pm it? Put it in the open.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[jfields 0]

While we are making suggestions of things for people to do, let me throw out one more, to... oh... the audience in general.

http://www.friesian.com/valley/9-f03.htm

Maybe enrollment is still open...

[wmw999 2,460]

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I think a call for all people of a specific faith to get together and fight everybody else is more relevant to the disscussion

I've heard calls by Christians to reject the teaching of evolution in schools. Does that mean that Christians are against the teaching of evolution in schools? It's not the same as suicide bombing, but the thing about people is nothing is ever exactly the same.

And how does 9/11 prove that people changed 500 years ago? The two are so far apart it's not even funny.

Christians persecuted and massacred the Mormons in the 1800's; Christians killed any number of accused witches in the 1700's; Christians killed a whole lot of Muslims in Kosovo in the 1990's. They killed them because they were not like them, and they perceived that as threatening.

Not everything that's perceived as threatening actually is. And the fact that you, Steel, think that the Muslim faith is evil and should be banned does not make it so.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[kiltboy 0]

If your paper dealt with Michael Collins and the Easter uprising than that is a very different scenario to the current problems in N.Ireland which is where I was coming from.
I do not deny that the political climate has changed and devolution has shown that. The initial Scottish devolution vote ( 1970 something) was controvertial but the later 1997 one passed.

I'm still not clear on

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But I would hope that you do not intend to deny that this was not always the case or that resorting to terrorism when they knew they could never defeat the British army was how the stage was set long ago.

If this is a reference to the Easter uprising or the current troubles?

Either way I do not believe that terrorism is the way to effect political change in a democracy.

David

[Steel 0]

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If your paper dealt with Michael Collins and the Easter uprising than that is a very different scenario to the current problems in N.Ireland which is where I was coming from.
I do not deny that the political climate has changed and devolution has shown that. The initial Scottish devolution vote ( 1970 something) was controvertial but the later 1997 one passed.

I'm still not clear on

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But I would hope that you do not intend to deny that this was not always the case or that resorting to terrorism when they knew they could never defeat the British army was how the stage was set long ago.

If this is a reference to the Easter uprising or the current troubles?
--------------------------------------------
Both in a way. See the current troubles would not have been there if what happened in the Easter uprising had never occured. I assume don't think that if England had never occupied Ireland like the never occupied Holland, that the IRA would have still been formed. Don't get me wrong I understand your point when you say that U.K. has done there part to stop the violence now. But one somebody throws the first plate of food in the cafeteria its not quite as easy to stop the food fight at that point.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

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[lawrocket 3]

Okay, I'll put it in the open:

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Muslim faith should be made illegal.

This is specifically the statement upon which I disagree. This is the specific statement upon which I take great issue. This is not a conservative statement. Outlawing a religion is a communist idea.

I'll attack the any views upon which I disagree. Conservatives, liberal, you name it. I've attacked conservative Pat Buchanon for years. I attack the current administrations efforts with the Patriot Act and, yes, even Middle East policy wih equal fervor as attacking the viewpoints of poverty pimps, victim mongers and the California liberal litz-glitz nouveau rock riche.

I don't agree with anybody on everything. But, my best friends are adult lefties. Why? Because they are fun guys with stimulating ideas, and just because we disagree doesn't mean we don't like each other. And we change each other's minds a lot.

You are a good guy, Steel, and I respect the hell out of you. But what you said is just plain wrong. Outlaw of religion is one of the ideas America was created to prevent. And the belief that a religion should be made illegal does far more damage than a person who doesn't want the ten commandments posted, who believes that the rich should be taxed to oblivion, or who would be willign to die for their religion.

Free exercise of religion is the FIRST Amendment. In two separate parts of my life I've raised my hand to support and defend that Constitution.

The problem was that you appeared to mean what you said. And like it or not, those views detrimentally affect everyone in our conservative corner. Much like the Al Qaeda assholes make all Muslims look bad, so too does your statement make conservatives look terrible.

I won't stand for people believing that I might believe the same thing because I'm conservative. The suggestion was made many times. And I will nip that in the bud immediately.

What you wrote was wrong. I feel that your comment crossed the line. More important than feelign it crossed the line, I truly believe and think that the comment crossed the line.

Sadly, it's a comment that everyone will remember you by, and not all the other thoughtful and well-reasoned things that you have said in the past.

I'll prefer to remember the older comments hereinafter.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 3,008]

>I don't think it could be any clearer the fact that I believe that
> Muslims as a whole are much much more likely to sympathize with
> causes to destroy/kill non-muslims.

There is only one person in this discussion who has advocated destroying a faith or people of a certain faith - and that's you. Of all the people I have met over the past few years and talked about 9/11 with - and that includes muslims, christians, jews and hindus - only you have advocated wiping out a religion. Apparently, you're the only one who sees any value in jihad. Which is odd, given that you rail against people like yourself.

[pds 0]

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If Devil worshipers became a problem because of Terrrorism then we would keep a closer eye on them. We would not fear being called bigots for profiling them. That is a start.

a start for what? a witchhunt? and doesnt appear the you fear being called a bigot, you unabashed fucking bigot.

man, you never quit. satanism is not illegal. and as a matter of fact, i know people who have followed the 'left hand' path and have found them to be among the most progressive and open minded people out there.not to mention kind. pragmatic? yes. evil? are you kidding me? kiddie sacrifice and such, which i am sure you are counting on, is a product of TV and disturbed people.

you dont support your arguments well by demonstrating just how ignorant you are. but dont stop now, it is approaching comedic proportions.


funny thing is, there are two sides to every story. christians, among others say satan is evil. its a sure thing that satan doesnt agree. any ever cared to read 'his' side of the story. lmao

educate yourself - google "left hand path" or simply satanist home page

click it, it's not a sin. read it, i dare you.

funny thing is, none of it is based in fact. christians, muslims, hinduism, not so much shinto - i like thier idea, satanism, etc are all fighting each other without one shred of hard evidence. even those you would think the most pacific, the buddhists, have waged mercenary war on opposing parties.

did you ever wonder why we don't hear of 'miracles' and divine manifetations of the proportions that are reported in various religious texts? it's cuz they did'nt and don't happen. the are fabrications, fiction, or natural events misinterpreted in light of the technology and level of education common to the era.

personally i say you are free to believe whichever brand of bulshit you choose. we all need a shoulder to cry on.

in some places religion grew out of a desire to have a closer connection to the earth and heavens, with gods to represent the elements and ancestors, and in other places religion was developed into a tool to control the masses. hats off, fellas, you did it.

sex is a sin to be punished unless we say you can and then its only to make more fodder for our (take your pick of eras and consumer of the economically shackled masses). the ONE thing that is the driving force behind every animal instinct just happens to be the most joyful, liberating andpleasurable experience on earth and FREE to all. but you can't do it because we can't have blissful masses, they too likely to say "eh, who needs you?". my rant has fallen to shit. i know what i mean, maybe someone can send ME a link to some text that actually says it. lmao. and i didnt even mention the crusades and mass repression all justified by the threat of eternal damnation.

that said, believe what you want, but don't come if you dont come correct.

namaste, motherfucker.

[pds 0]

hey, one caveat to my rant is that i interpreted 'devil worshippers' in steels post to imply satanism. i stand by that. one thing that i didn't clear up is that satanist do not worship satan. blah.

namaste, motherfucker.

[Steel 0]

Ok perhaps making it illegal would be going to far. But if you followed the entire thread you would have noticed that when I was questioned on how I proposed to police it. I cleared that up by saying that I didn't think we need to pass a bill against it. But that we had to stop refusing to acknowledge that it indeed was a terrorist breeding ground even in present day. Satanism is not illegal but you don't have as many people trying to look the other way on it. Are you against profiling them. Are you against the FBI keeping tabs on the Mosques? Do you think that people working at the airports should play as close attention to a passenger who's name in Mohammed as they would to an 80 year old Swedish lady. Liberals would love to say they should check everbody throughly. But as it is the delays in flying have increased drastically and its still not secure enough.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[Steel 0]

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hey, one caveat to my rant is that i interpreted 'devil worshippers' in steels post to imply satanism. i stand by that. one thing that i didn't clear up is that satanist do not worship satan. blah.

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So apparently you are a Satanist and although this has been a heated arguement in all respects you have found the need for a personal attack, even though all others have managed to avoid it. It wasn't enough that you started the thread with a different personal attack, on GWB. You found the need to make senseless arguements on his facial expressions. Oh what can I say, whatever.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[pds 0]

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Are you not familiar with Islamic Jihad?

Yes. I'm also familiar with the local Texaco station.
***

what are you trying to say, w2? lmao.

namaste, motherfucker.

[lawrocket 3]

On that point I will agree with you. Unfortunately, there has been too much of a preventive backlash against taking a serious look at this topic open, honestly, and thoughtfully. Too often, people "feel" instead of think. "I feel that profiling is bad." Well, now that I know what you feel, tell me what you "think."

Yeah, there are some bad apples out there. McVeigh was stopped and arrested on the basis of a profile. I myself have been thoroghly screened (one of the select few) all six times I have flown since Sept. 11. Maybe I fit a profile, too.

You are right. Many people do not want to face the hard truth. Too many are worried about the McCarthy era sins against communists (hey, the Muslims weren't the ones hijacking those planes to Cuba.)

But I also say "Give me liberty or give me death." There is a cost to living in a free society. But my good Muslim friend Keith (who is a blonde haired blue-eyed italian) won't fit those profiles, will he?

The point is now you are making an argument that causes discussion rather than derision.

Not all profiles are bad. (Ask any artist, and with the size of my chin and nose, they'd say my profile sucks) But don't ban a religion. It's the wrong thing to say...

edited to add: You've made some great points, and some valid points. All are obscured by that one statement....

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[pds 0]

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So apparently you are a Satanist

wrong. read my post. i read yours.

personal attack? oh, right, you want me to say 'you actions resemble those of a bigot'? fuck that. control your irrational and offensive posting and you wont be called out on it.

AND - i said gwb looked and acted like a teenager with reading and speaking challenges. a moron. that is my right. and NOONE has refuted my claims regarding his appearance. in fact, people have said, 'yeah, he looks dumb, but he ok by me'. and i NEVER criticized the job GWB is doing. probably because it's less about him than most people are willing to admit and i can't blame him for that.

generally i dont make 5000 word self serving posts. they are generally short and sweet. you dont need to read too much into them.

i called bush a moron.

you suggested eliminating an entire religion.

hmmm.... someone has been trolling...

namaste, motherfucker.

[PhillyKev 0]

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Satanism is not illegal but you don't have as many people trying to look the other way on it. Are you against profiling them. Are you against the FBI keeping tabs on the Mosques?

Liberty is the idea that you are judged not by who you are, but by what you do. You are advocating the reduction of liberty, just in case, because of profiles and stereotypes.

That's the kind of evil in the current administration that I'm opposed to.

Yes, I'm opposed to the FBI keeping an eye on Mosques. Do you know how many mosques there are in the US? 1,209. We should watch them all and the 2 million muslims that go to them because a couple might be terrorists?

I'll bet most arab terrorists have black hair. Should we have surveilance of people with black hair? The statistical correlation between hair color and being a terrorist and religion and being a terrorist is not that far apart.

Do you know what percentage of American muslims are arabs? 25%.

How many mosques are attended by a single ethnic group? 7%.

So, that means 1.75% or all mosques in the US have a strictly arab congregation. That's 21 mosques. But we should watch them all so you can sleep a little better at night?

While you're sleeping better because a bunch of harmless, innocent people are under surveilance, being profiled and harassed, those of us without the racial hatred you have will be losing sleep wondering when they'll find a reason to justify profiling some trait that we posess.

I'm Irish. There's a higher percentage of the Irish people that are terrorists than muslim people. Better keep an eye on me.

[Steel 0]

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So apparently you are a Satanist

wrong. read my post. i read yours.

personal attack? oh, right, you want me to say 'you actions resemble those of a bigot'? fuck that. control your irrational and offensive posting and you wont be called out on it.

AND - i said gwb looked and acted like a teenager with reading and speaking challenges. a moron. that is my right. and NOONE has refuted my claims regarding his appearance. in fact, people have said, 'yeah, he looks dumb, but he ok by me'. and i NEVER criticized the job GWB is doing. probably because it's less about him than most people are willing to admit and i can't blame him for that.

generally i dont make 5000 word self serving posts. they are generally short and sweet. you dont need to read too much into them.

i called bush a moron.

you suggested eliminating an entire religion.

hmmm.... someone has been trolling...

rereading your entire post is a complete waste of time. You sound like a twenty-two year old kid who thought that because of the disent that you could get away with a personal attack. So you did it not once but twice and I called you on it thats all
chill out
cornflake

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[wmw999 2,460]

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I'm Irish. There's a higher percentage of the Irish people that are terrorists than muslim people. Better keep an eye on me.

Are you cute? If so, I can help with that

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)