Kennedy 0 #1 March 16, 2004 "President Clinton signed the 1994 federal Crime Bill into law on Sept. 13, 1994, including the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, which made it a federal crime for a private individual to possess or transfer (sell, give, etc.) a "semiautomatic assault weapon" (AW) manufactured after that date. [18 U.S.C. 922(v)]." This law has a 10 year sunset provision included, which means unless it is reauthorized and extended, it will cease to exist 180 days from today. The law banned semi-automatic firearms which have any two listed cosmetic features, plus the ability to accept a detachable magazine. For rifles these features included a pistol grip, a flash suppressor, a bayonet mount, and a folding or telescoping stock. To illustrate, I have attached pictures of two semi-automatic firearms. The first is Pre-Ban. It contains several features which would make it illegal for citizens to own or sell if it were made after 09/13/94. The second is the exact same semi-auto firearm, but without the banned features. This firearm is legal for citizens to own no matter when it was made. Both firearms have the exact same internal components, the exact same rate of fire, and shoot the exact same ammunition. However, only one is legal. To be clear, this law address semi-automatic firearms, not fully-automatic firearms. Full-auto firearms are machine guns; they continue to fire as long as the trigger is held. Semi-auto firearms fire one bullet for each pull of the trigger. This law has no bearing on full-auto firearms. They are strictly regulated, and have been since 1934. United States Code, from uscode.house.gov Quote(30) The term ''semiautomatic assault weapon'' means - (A) any of the firearms, or copies or duplicates of the firearms in any caliber, known as - (i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models); (ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil; (iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70); (iv) Colt AR-15; (v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC; (vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12; (vii) Steyr AUG; (viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and (ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12;(B) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of -(i) a folding or telescoping stock; (ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; (iii) a bayonet mount; (iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and (v) a grenade launcher;(C) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of - (i) an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip; (ii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer; (iii) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned; (iv) a manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and (v) a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm; and(D) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least 2 of - (i) a folding or telescoping stock; (ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; (iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and (iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #2 March 16, 2004 What Ban Supporters Are Saying Coalition to Stop Gun Violence QuoteWhy the Ban Must be Strengthened The 1994 ban outlaws specific models of military-style semiautomatic assault weapons. But the gun industry, willfully violating Congress's clear intent to ban all assault weapons, continues to manufacture "post-ban" assault weapons -- guns identical to those banned except for minor cosmetic changes. The Bushmaster XM15 used in the 2002 DC-area sniper attacks, for example, was a "post-ban" version of the AR15 assault rifle, which is banned under current law. CSGV called on Congress to pass legislation that would stop the gun industry from manufacturing "post-ban" assault weapons such as the Bushmaster XM15. Violence Policy Center QuoteThe Gun Industry Evades the Law Immediately after the 1994 law was enacted, the gun industry moved quickly to make slight, cosmetic design changes in their “post-ban” guns to evade the law, a tactic the industry dubbed “sporterization.” Of the nine assault weapon brands/types listed by manufacturer in the law, six of the brands/types have been re-marketed in new, “sporterized” configurations. “Post-ban” AR-15s, AK-47s, MAC-10s, UZIs, and other assault weapons are readily available today. At the same time, the gun industry has aggressively marketed new assault-weapon types—such as the Hi-Point Carbine used in the 1999 Columbine Massacre—that are commonly used in crime. In fact, gunmakers openly boast of their ability to circumvent the assault weapons ban. To clarify, all firearms in the attachment are semi-automatics. Also, the TEC AB-10, is not "Post-Ban," because it contains two of the banned features: a magazine outside the grip, and being a semi-auto version of a full-auto firearm. Also, the TEC AB-10, the MPA-16, and the SSR-74-2 are all shown wth magazines that are banned. No magazines may be made after 09/13/94 that are able to hold more than 10 rounds.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clownburner 0 #3 March 16, 2004 Quote The Bushmaster XM15 used in the 2002 DC-area sniper attacks, for example, was a "post-ban" version of the AR15 assault rifle, which is banned under current law. This cracks me up. The sniper attacks could have been carried out with any single-shot rifle; no semi-auto firing was used. Yet these groups use it as justification to extend the ban on these weapons. It strikes me that it is every responsible gun owners' duty, should they go off their heads, to carry all of their firearms, load them to the teeth, strap grenades to their bodies, and then proceed to stab their victim to death with a pointed stick.7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez "I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #4 March 16, 2004 NRA-ILA clintongunban.com Quote“Gun control” advocates claim that various military-style attachments—attachments that in their minds re-define semi-automatic firearms as “assault weapons”—provide advantages to criminals. But even the rabidly anti-gun Washington Post admits, “Assault weapons play a part in only a small percentage of crime.” Data from police experts must be deliberately avoided by those pushing "assault weapons" bills. A clear case in point is the internal memorandum to California Assistant Attorney General Patrick Kenady that warned: “Information on assault weapons would not be sought from forensics laboratories as it was unlikely to support the theses on which the “Assault Weapons” ban legislation would be based.” Members of Congress who voted for the Clinton ban in 1994 disregarded hard evidence, pretending instead that BATF trace data “proved” widespread criminal “assault weapon” use. They ignored the Congressional Research Service’s finding that: “Firearms selected for tracing . . . cannot be considered representative of the larger universe of all firearms used by criminals, or of any subset of that universe. As a result, data from the tracing system may not be appropriate for drawing inferences such as which makes or models of firearms are used for illicit purposes.” www.AWBanSunset.com QuoteIn 1999, the National Institute of Justice reported that trace requests for assault weapons declined 20% in the first calendar year after the ban took effect, dropping from 4,077 in 1994 to 3,268 in 1995. Over the same time period, gun murders declined only 10% and trace requests for all types of guns declined 11 percent, clearly showing a greater decrease in the number of assault weapons traced in crime.It should be noted that, even though the above paragraph stealthily attempts to imply that the ban reduced crime, if you read it carefully, you see that this is not the case (more on this below). Brady Campaign also fails to mention the wealth of other very significant information present in this same report that all but invalidates their assertion. For example, with regards to the accuracy of using BATF, the report states:These data are limited because police agencies do not submit a trace request on every gun they confiscate. Many agencies submit very few requests to BATF, particularly in States that maintain gun sales databases (such as California). Therefore, tracing data are a biased sample of guns recovered by police. Prior studies suggest that assault weapons are more likely to be submitted for tracing than are other confiscated firearms.The N.I.J. report cited by Brady also makes quite a few other significant points, such as:"A number of factors—including the fact that the banned weapons and magazines were rarely used to commit murders in this country...posed challenges in discerning the effects of the ban." "...the banned guns are used in only a small fraction of gun crimes; even before the ban, most of them rarely turned up in law enforcement agencies’ requests to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) to trace the sales histories of guns recovered in criminal investigations." [emphasis added] "...other analyses using a variety of national and local data sources found no clear ban effects on certain types of murders that were thought to be more closely associated with the rapid-fire features of assault weapons and other semiautomatics equipped with large capacity magazines. The ban did not produce declines in the average number of victims per incident of gun murder or gun murder victims with multiple wounds."witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #5 March 16, 2004 QuoteIt strikes me that it is every responsible gun owners' duty, should they go off their heads, to carry all of their firearms, load them to the teeth, strap grenades to their bodies, and then proceed to stab their victim to death with a pointed stick. They would still find a way to blame it on the guns..."Whaa...the guns were too heavy with all the weight, so the assailant was visually doing with a sharp stick what a bullet could have done....whaaa..."So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clownburner 0 #6 March 16, 2004 When some maniac comes at you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! 7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez "I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bshl 0 #7 March 16, 2004 QuoteQuote The Bushmaster XM15 used in the 2002 DC-area sniper attacks, for example, was a "post-ban" version of the AR15 assault rifle, which is banned under current law. This cracks me up. The sniper attacks could have been carried out with any single-shot rifle; no semi-auto firing was used. Yet these groups use it as justification to extend the ban on these weapons. No kidding. In fact, for sniper attacks, it would be cheaper to go buy a nice deer rifle. Should I point out that they're waaay more accurate off the shelf than any AK-47? Blue skies and happy landings! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #8 March 16, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuote The Bushmaster XM15 used in the 2002 DC-area sniper attacks, for example, was a "post-ban" version of the AR15 assault rifle, which is banned under current law. This cracks me up. The sniper attacks could have been carried out with any single-shot rifle; no semi-auto firing was used. Yet these groups use it as justification to extend the ban on these weapons. No kidding. In fact, for sniper attacks, it would be cheaper to go buy a nice deer rifle. Should I point out that they're waaay more accurate off the shelf than any AK-47? See, you guys just don't get it. Try this... Close your eyes, picture a sniper on top of a hill overlooking a gas station. He's laying prone on the ground with his eye up against a high power scope. He's taking aim and about to take a single shot at an innocent mother of 3. The gun he's using has a 30 round detachable magazine, a pistol grip, and a bayonnete lug. And the gun is all black. Makes you shudder... ...now picture the same scenario but it's a walnut stock, bolt action, single shot deer rifle. Now that's not nearly as bad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #9 March 16, 2004 I couldn’t agree with you more. I have a 2 SKS`s (1 Preban with Folding Pistol Grip Stock, 30 round clips, Bayonet, Flash Suppressor and Hell fire Attachment and one post-ban with uhhhhh.. well its pretty too.) And a Remington 742 Carbine Good old Hunting Rifle. No question which one I grab if needed protection. The Remington has twice the range, more accurate, more stopping power and a lot more reliable. The other two are just fun to take out for stress relief and a hell of allot cheaper to shoot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #10 March 16, 2004 QuoteVPC pre and post ban.jpg These guys are so full of it. In the top post-ban gun picture, they still show it with a pre-ban magazine. In the bottom two series of gun photos, I think the photos are reversed, showing pre-ban where post-ban should be, and post-ban where pre-ban should be. They can't even get their own propoganda correct! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #11 March 16, 2004 Good eye John, it looks like they reversed the bottom one, maybe the bottom two. Yeah, VPC really knows what they're talking about. You'll also notice they chose four (potentially) full-auto firearms for their "pre-ban" sample. No, they're not taking Sugarmann's advice or anything. QuoteThe semi-automatic weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons – anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun – can only increase that chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons. - Josh Sugarmann, VPC, 1988witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #12 March 17, 2004 what we need to do is let everyone have guns liek it used to be. and go ey for an eye. You shoot someone... you get shot as punishment... pretty soon we would all behave QuoteSee, you guys just don't get it. Try this... Close your eyes, picture a sniper on top of a hill overlooking a gas station. He's laying prone on the ground with his eye up against a high power scope. He's taking aim and about to take a single shot at an innocent mother of 3. The gun he's using has a 30 round detachable magazine, a pistol grip, and a bayonnete lug. And the gun is all black. Makes you shudder... ...now picture the same scenario but it's a walnut stock, bolt action, single shot deer rifle. Now that's not nearly as bad. Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #13 March 17, 2004 >You shoot someone... you get shot as punishment... pretty soon we >would all behave. I suspect that if you shot someone robbing your house, and you were shot as punishment, you'd be pretty mad. So you need a court to decide if you were "right" or not. And then you end up with exactly the same system we have now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #14 March 17, 2004 Quoteclose your eyes, picture a sniper on top of a hill overlooking a gas station. He's laying prone on the ground with his eye up against a high power scope. He's taking aim and about to take a single shot at an innocent mother of 3. The gun he's using has a 30 round detachable magazine, a pistol grip, and a bayonnete lug. And the gun is all black. OK.............I tried it. All I could here was "DIE GAS PUMPER!!!!!!!" and "It's the cans!!! Stay away from the cans!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #15 March 17, 2004 Hahahaa! - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #16 March 17, 2004 damn... let just be barbaric. it was so much easier ack then... only the strong surive.... shit i might not be alive thne....Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bluskidave 0 #17 March 17, 2004 MY favorite assault rifle the M-1 Garand with its top load 8 round clip is a joy to shoot at steel rams @ 500 meters.To squeeze off a shot with open sights, look up from your sights hear the hit and then see the ram fall over is a great experience.I've got Pre-Ban weapons, post ban weapons and WW1 weapons and at the ranges that the murderers in the D.C. area where taking their pot shots any damn firearm that has ever been produced in the history of firearms would suffice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #18 March 17, 2004 QuoteMY favorite assault rifle the M-1 Garand with its top load 8 round clip um, Dave, the M1 isn't an assault rifle by anyone's definition. Quote(30) The term ''semiautomatic assault weapon'' means -(B) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of - And the correct definition (not the PC AWB definition) of assault rifle includes select fire among other properties. I believe the M14 was select fire, but I don't think M1 Garands are/were. Quoteand at the ranges that the murderers in the D.C. area where taking their pot shots any damn firearm that has ever been produced in the history of firearms would suffice. I can think of many types of firearm that would be difficult to impossible to hit man sized targets at 150 feet.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #19 March 30, 2004 QuoteGun Used by Washington, DC-Area Sniper Illustrates Need to Strengthen and Renew Federal Assault Weapons Ban - Press Release http://www.vpc.org/press/0210snip3.htm This strongly worded headline on vpc.org promises a knockdown punch for "assault weapons". Click on the link and read the press release. Then read it again. See if you can find ANYTHING that backs up what the headline so confidently states. The only vague attempt at doing so is:The Bushmaster used by the sniper uses a detachable ammunition magazine and has a pistol grip.Obviously, neither of these features had any bearing whatsoever on how the killings were carried out. This is a truly distasteful example of capitalizing on the deaths of innocent people in a desperate attempt to revive the faltering gun control movement. Launching into yet another rabid, non-DC "Sniper" related anti-gun mantra, VPC's Kristen Rand adds:Bushmaster's entire product line is purposefully designed to circumvent the federal ban. Bushmaster made minor cosmetic changes to their pre-ban assault rifles in order to make them comply with the letter of the 1994 ban, but their guns are still assault weapons.Bushmaster has not "circumvented" the law. They have obediently followed it! The 1994 ban halts manufacture of firearms with a detachable magazine and two or more "evil" features, such as a bayonet lug, folding stock, pistol grip, etc. As mentioned above, Bushmaster's rifles have only a detachable magazine and a pistol grip. How have they "evaded" the ban? If nothing else, the "minor cosmetic changes" comment greatly supports our position that this ban is absolutely ludicrous. If "minor cosmetic changes" are all that separate a legal gun from an illegal gun, what does that tell you about the methodologies, knowledge, and objectives of the people who constructed and support this legislation? Thank you, VPC, for strongly confirming our assertion that this ban is merely an attack on "scary looking guns."witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harksaw 0 #20 April 5, 2004 Too bad for me they're all illegal in my home state of New Jersey anyway. Anyone know a way around that?__________________________________________________ I started skydiving for the money and the chicks. Oh, wait. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fireflyer 0 #22 April 6, 2004 Quotewhat we need to do is let everyone have guns liek it used to be. and go ey for an eye. You shoot someone... you get shot as punishment... pretty soon we would all behave ...an "eye for an eye" leaves the whole world blind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #23 April 6, 2004 Quote...an "eye for an eye" leaves the whole world blind. But letting the other guy put out your eye just leaves you blind--and him free to abuse you however he likes, then go on and blind someone else.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douva 0 #24 April 6, 2004 Quotewhat we need to do is let everyone have guns liek it used to be. and go ey for an eye. You shoot someone... you get shot as punishment... pretty soon we would all behave Carrying a gun is not about "punishment," it is about defense. You don't carry a gun so you can blind the other guy after he blinds you, you carry a gun so the other guy won't blind you. The last thing we need is a bunch of vigilantes running round trying to dish out "punishment."I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cloudseeker2001 0 #25 April 6, 2004 I used to own an MAC-10.......It was fun "Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance, others mean and rueful of the western dream" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites