Strip Search, or X-Ray?

[wmw999 2,461]

Doing a little thread necromancing here. I'll say this thread of John's was particularly prescient, given what's going on with TSA these days

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Andy9o8 2]

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The Police didn't just pop along on the spur of the moment because they had nothing better to do. They had 'probable cause' the people scanned had been arested and were 35 out of 200 that had been drinking in the two pubs.

In the US, that police action would have been unconstitutional. Usually, in the US - aside from limited-purpose frisks to safeguard police against weapons that could imminently harm them - the only way to have probable cause to search a person like that is to have probable cause to arrest him outright prior to the search.

[jonstark 8]

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hmm all i know is they need to shrink that thing from a 7 foot tall monster to a pair of sunglasses.

I bought a pair from Mad Magazine in 1967 but can't find them anywhere now. Damn!

jon

[happythoughts 0]

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If I'm sitting in a bar minding my own business, not breaking any laws, and policemen roll up and announce that there are only two ways out of the bar: strip search, or x-ray search. Well, I'm going to refuse both, and fight the battle in court, representing myself if necessary. I shouldn't have to prove myself innocent of illegal activity, just for sitting in a public place. It's the responsibility of the police to catch people doing something wrong, not go on fishing expeditions amongst the general public.

in the late 70s, the police closed a bar. they had two pages of legal paper with names. your name was on the list, you had a warrant.
that is the legal way.

a couple of year ago, a friend went to bonaroo. cops searched whatever cars they wanted to, at the gate. complaints were handled as, "so? call the chief and complain." they confiscated a bunch of pot. so, it goes on in the US. who can you complain to?

[RonD1120 62]

I vote for just strip. Freak'm out and just take off all your close and let them look. No X-Ray, no fondling, thank you very much.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[JohnRich 4]

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Doing a little thread necromancing here. I'll say this thread of John's was particularly prescient, given what's going on with TSA these days

And people wonder why I worry about new things being tried out across the ocean in England.
This one answers that question.
My oh my, what a difference six years makes.

[ryoder 1,590]

SNL TSA advertisement: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joIxWcFO3bY&feature=player_embedded

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[popsjumper 2]

I'm all for TSA groping, I mean pat-downs. Where else can you get your junk played with and not have to pay for it?

I just wish that it would be done by the ladies...just like I paid for last time.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[shropshire 0]

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If you done nowt wrong, you've got nowt to worry about

Read that shit on this board more times than I can count ..... just sayin'

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Amazon 7]

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If you done nowt wrong, you've got nowt to worry about

Read that shit on this board more times than I can count ..... just sayin'

I heard that at the Ministry of Magic on Saturday even

I guess its a favorite line to use in any police state.

[tkhayes 348]

you forgot the othe roption - "Touch my junk and i'll have you arrested"

I vote for that one

[Nightingale 0]

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plastic or ceramic guns

Haven't we been through this before? The damn things don't exist.

.

What makes you think that?

While there may be some bizarre prototype out there that nobody's ever heard of, there's nothing on the market today that would even remotely qualify as a "plastic gun" that can pass through a metal detector.

Most people think of Glocks when they think of "plastic guns", but while parts of the frame are not metal, the slide, barrel, spring, firing pin, and many other parts of the gun are definitely metal, and this also goes for other "tupperware" type guns like Kahr and H&K. While the plastic frame is nice because it makes the gun lighter, it certainly doesn't make it invisible to a metal detector.

Plastic and ceramic knives, on the other hand, do exist.

[billvon 3,009]

>it certainly doesn't make it invisible to a metal detector.

We're talking about two different things here.

One is an X-ray. All-metal items are very visible in X-rays since they are radio-opaque. Plastic items, less so. However, provided the operator is trained to spot the characteristic outline of a composite weapon, making a gun out of partly plastic materials will not 'hide' it from an X-ray machine.

Metal detectors (magnetometers) are a different story. They work by detecting minor changes in magnetic fields caused by ferrous metals. They work very well on iron or steel, less well on non-ferrous metals like copper or gold. (Stainless steel is also more difficult to detect.)

In operation, they use a pulsed H-field to induce a current in a metallic object. (Again, ferrous materials are best, but anything conductive can be detected.) The current then circulates within the metal. When the field is reversed the circulating current momentarily opposes the new field, and this resistance is used to detect metal.

However, it senses _everything_ conductive, including your blood. So it has to have a threshold so that people can pass through but metal objects over a certain size cannot.

If you wanted to get something through a magnetometer based scanner, you could do it in several ways:

1) Make it out of non-metal materials
2) Make the item mostly out of metal, but space the metal within a nonconductive material so that that any current loop is minimized in size
3) Make the metal bits out of non-ferrous metal

Combine all those, and you could easily make a device with non-ferrous (say, stainless steel) components in an epoxy matrix that does not get a magnetometer above a threshold. Fortunately gun manufacturers have not made this a goal, and thus even the composite guns on the market today still generate fields above magnetometer thresholds.

[Nightingale 0]

It looked like they were implying that they were using the x-ray because current technology was insufficient to detect various things, guns being one. I was just saying they can cross guns off the list, because a metal detector will find those just fine.

[rhaig 0]

cool explanation bill. Thanks.

Years ago (6 or 7 I think) I accidentally had one of these http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/csstoreonline/big-92fsd.jpg in my carry-on.
(fiberglass reinforced plastic knife)

I'd planned on checking the bag, but I ended up carrying it on instead because of the long-ass line at the baggage counter. Completely forgot I had it in the bag until I got home.

I can only assume it was on edge when x-ray'd and the machine was only a top shooter, not a side-shooter too. Because that profile on x-ray would have ended me up in questioning I'm sure.

--
Rob

[ridestrong 1]

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plastic or ceramic guns

Haven't we been through this before? The damn things don't exist.

.

What makes you think that?

While there may be some bizarre prototype out there that nobody's ever heard of, there's nothing on the market today that would even remotely qualify as a "plastic gun" that can pass through a metal detector.

.

and there will never likely be anything like that "on the market".

Metal gun pens on the other hand can be easily made and inconspicuous through a security check point... don't really need to be "on the market".

Not sure that would ever pose a real threat, just sayin. But I bet it wouldn't be too difficult to get ~3 gun pens past screening.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[Nightingale 0]

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and there will never likely be anything like that "on the market".

Metal gun pens on the other hand can be easily made and inconspicuous through a security check point... don't really need to be "on the market".

Not sure that would ever pose a real threat, just sayin. But I bet it wouldn't be too difficult to get ~3 gun pens past screening.

You might be able to make it inconspicuous, but the bullet is still going to set off the metal detector.

The thing is, all of this is security theater. It's not going to accomplish anything, simply because we don't pick the target. They do. If we make our planes more secure, they're just going to blow up everyone waiting in line at the security checkpoint.

[DSE 5]

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Doing a little thread necromancing here. I'll say this thread of John's was particularly prescient, given what's going on with TSA these days

Wendy P.

Speaking of necromancing...
This image makes me wonder if the TSA isn't just a new dog doing an old trick...
A Swiss army knife passed through fine today, even though they questioned a packing tool. I opted for pat-down.

[ridestrong 1]

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and there will never likely be anything like that "on the market".

Metal gun pens on the other hand can be easily made and inconspicuous through a security check point... don't really need to be "on the market".

Not sure that would ever pose a real threat, just sayin. But I bet it wouldn't be too difficult to get ~3 gun pens past screening.

You might be able to make it inconspicuous, but the bullet is still going to set off the metal detector.

The whole idea is that they would stay in the brief case and pass through x'ray... not the metal detector.

They can be made to still look exactly like a real pen (with a round inside) on x-ray.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[skyrider 0]

Plastic bombs can be made to look liek breast implants, or penal implants,,,you admit you have them, they look no farther...get on teh plane, finish the wiring, that they thought was only your pen/ring/bra wire/zipper.....fuck, if soemone wants to get a bomb on board, they will do it!