If a worker strikes, should he lose his job?

[Jimbo 0]

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I asked her if she thought what she did was worth $19.50 an hour.

She replied that it was.

So, I asked her why she simply didn't get another job for $19.50 an hour somewhere else.

She said there weren't any that she could do that paid that well.

I then pointed out that if she couldn't find someone else willing to pay her that much, then maybe what she did wasn't worth $19.50 an hour.

She shut up and let me pass.

Yah, and the price of gas is over 2 bucks a gallon. The cost of living in CA is outrageous. How can you say that getting 19.50 an hour isn't fair? How much do they pay in taxes for the privilige of living there?

Doesn't matter. If she can't go down the street and get a similar job with similar pay, then she's over paid. Plain and simple.

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Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Jimbo 0]

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You know, anyone who spends 25 years working for one company should be rewarded for loyalty.

No, they shouldn't. They should be rewarded for the work that they do. All too often you'll see people working a job, grossly overpaid, simply because they've been there for a long time. Not because their work is quality, or worth significantly more than the next guy's, but simply because they've been there longer. That's wrong. That _should_ be the first guy to go when times get tough.

If you ever find yourself at a job and realize that you're seriously overpaid, I suggest that you - and quickly - figure out how you can add significant value to your position, or to your company.

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Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[lawrocket 3]

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They should be rewarded for the work that they do.

Yep. Back in the 70's, there were a number of VERY loyal and hardworking punch card operators. Evil corporations simply let them die off.

Or was it just that there was no longer a need for punch cards?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[vmsfreaky1 0]

NO!

[sundevil777 102]

If striking workers cannot be replaced, then the company has no leverage at all, no power at all. They might as well admit that the union can write their own contract. Some unions have so much money on hand that they could support a strike at 100% pay if only a small segment of their membership is on strike.

If I could make a law...Union leadership would get the same strike pay as any of their represented workers that are on strike.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[champu 1]

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NO!

Wow, "no" with an exclamation mark and everything... I didn't know there was enough information given about the situation to warrant an exclamation mark.

I agree with billvon, you don't see too many people shoveling coal into the boilers of steamships anymore. If everyone went through college and got their degrees we'd be capable of an awful lot more as a society than we are now.

In the grand scheme of things, unskilled labor is just a temporary solution to a problem that hasn't been solved from an engineering standpoint. People that have no desire or drive to move themselves above the unskilled labor market should get their unions to rough up engineers for stealing their jobs.

/edited: I never could spell all that well...

[akarunway 1]

I'm glad you put that disclaimer in there cause I am in the union and I WORK MY MOTHERFUCKING ASS OFF to bring you people ELECTRICITY and A.C. and HEAT so you can enjoy your lives. I'll have some more to say about this later. I put my life on the line every day I work and I think I don't get paid ENOUGH. Sit in your little fucking cubicles and fuck off on your boss. Put your life on the line for me? NOT.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[akarunway 1]

And to add to that most of the college degreed engineers I meet on the powerhouse jobs are dumb as a ROCK. I have to do THEIR jobs as well as my own.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"most of the college degreed engineers I meet on the powerhouse jobs are dumb as a ROCK. I have to do THEIR jobs as well as my own."

So, who is the dumb one?
But I know how you feel.

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[rehmwa 2]

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A grocery store checker is UNSKILLED labor. Should be minimum wage or thereabouts. Not damn near $20.00 a day.

you do realize that's about 11K a year? Barely above the way too low poverty line for a single person. And about 60% of families below the poverty line have 2 or more working members.

$20/hr x 40 hr/wk x 50 wk/year = $40,000/yr

Edit: doesn't include overtime....

Did you know about a third of the people in the US below the "poverty level" have a house a car and a cell phone? (I'll find the link here somewhere..) Either our definition of poverty is way off what the rest of the world has, or your 60% is getting screwed over by the one third that's abusing the benefits....

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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And to add to that most of the college degreed engineers I meet on the powerhouse jobs are dumb as a ROCK. I have to do THEIR jobs as well as my own.

At our company, less than 5% of our non-exempt employees feel like this. These particular employees are unhappy and bitter about life in general no matter what happens and are easily the least productive of the whole lot.

You should get away from this company and find a position that you can happy doing regardless of whether it's a union shop or not.

Sounds like you are very unhappy in your union job.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[akarunway 1]

Actually I worked non union const. most my life. I am riding the fence right now. I try to get the slackers to work harder as I HAD to work my ass off or get fired at any bosses whim on my non union jobs. Hands down the training the union gives to its member beats none. I try to keep it in perspective. In Fla. as an inspector at a powerhouse I was making $20 an hr (+ 300 a week tax free per diem to try to entice people to come and work non union). In Ca. I earn $32 an hr. plus 12 in benifits (me dical, dental,local and national pension (which I'll prolly never see if Enron types are allowed to run around unchecked as well as SSI). The union does take a good chunk of pay as well as the lovely state of Ca. When it all comes out in the wash between my home state of Fla. and Ca. the pay(net) is basically the same. BUT. I don't don't have to go begging for job and I can tell the boss to go fuck off if he's a dick(like I just did) and the hall sends me out on the next one. I will continue my rant later

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[PhillyKev 0]

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learn?

What if I'm stupid, or impaired, or old?

I don't think people should get government support for cable television, or going out to eat, or going to the movies, etc. But I do think there should be a fundamental right in this country, that if you're willing and able to work an honest week of work, that you get paid enough to support your necessities, no matter what your skills, education, or job are. That's just not the case. If that were the case, then we could elliminate welfare for all but those who truly are incapable of working at all.

[PhillyKev 0]

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When it all comes out in the wash between my home state of Fla. and Ca. the pay(net) is basically the same.

Something that people don't realize, though, is that if the unions didn't exist, those non-union jobs wouldn't pay as much because they wouldn't have to compete with the unions for employees.

[akarunway 1]

My point exactly. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT. Now I'm gonna go get my ass beat in a chess game

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[mcrocker 0]

If he is a contract employee and the contract runs out he is no longer an employee. Striking is irrelevant. He shouldn't go to work because he no longer has a job. Now, if the contract expired because the HR department screwed up he should be rehired with a new contract. If he was in negotiations for a new contract and couldn't agree on the terms he should only be rehired if he and the company can agree on terms for a new contract. The company is free to hire whomever they choose.

[billvon 3,070]

>What if I'm stupid, or impaired, or old?

Stupid? So stupid you can't do or learn anything useful? Then you're impaired. People who are impaired, I think, should get special consideration, which we do to an extent now. Their primary means of support should be their families, but the government does have a role in supporting people who cannot care for themselves if their family fails them.

Old? If there are people out there born old, I'd agree. If there are people out there who spent their youth having fun and not saving a thing for retirement, well, I think they should have the right to make that decision even if I think it's foolish. Just as I have the right to not support them through taxes (or even higher prices for milk) for making that decision.

>But I do think there should be a fundamental right in this country,
> that if you're willing and able to work an honest week of work, that
> you get paid enough to support your necessities, no matter what
> your skills, education, or job are.

I disagree. There are people who just plain fail. They don't care to try enough, or they don't want to go to school, or they try something risky (i.e. the stock market, becoming a pop singer) and fall flat on their faces. And because such chances, choices and opportunities exist in the US, there are also the people who make it big. I would not do anything to remove those risky choices from people, even if it means that sometimes people fail.

Now, having that amount of freedom means you can get to age 35 and not have a single skill. Sure, you can serve up the fries, but if you want to be able to afford your own apartment and not live at home then you have to get an education. The government will help you, but you have to do things like actually go to class. And if you're not willing to do any of those things - you can live with your parents until you're 50, if you so choose.

Freedom carries a heavy burden, because while some people make it big using that freedom, it's also possible to fail miserably. One should expend considerable energy to make sure they do not fall into the latter category.

[PhillyKev 0]

How is someone who makes minimum wage supposed to save for retirement, or pay for an education?

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If there are people out there who spent their youth having fun and not saving a thing for retirement, well, I think they should have the right to make that decision even if I think it's foolish.

I guess no one ever had a financial loss late in life. I guess investing in 100% safe bonds keeps pace with inflation. I guess no one lives longer than they expect to or planned for. Bah, screw the old people who worked their whole lives because they didn't invest in the right retirement fund. Screw the old people who had pension plans through their job that were raided or elliminated due to corporate malfeasance. Fuck em. it's their own fault.

[Lindsey 0]

I do think that there should be some safety nets, but we've gone way overboard in taking care of everyone's needs and wants. People don't have to be responsible for themselves, so more and more people are learning NOT to be. We have children now who are the 5th (and maybe even 6th) generation living on welfare. From whom are they going to learn to work hard, get an education, and make something for themselves. People are being crippled in a sense by our system IMHO. When things don't go right, we tap into somebody else's pocketbook. If there's not a readily available pocketbook, we sue someone else for our misfortune. No one is responsible for me besides me. If I fail then I'm screwed. If one doesn't think he or she can prepare for retirement on minimum wage, then that person should get more training or education and do something that will provide a better living.

Peace~
Lindsey

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[billvon 3,070]

>How is someone who makes minimum wage supposed to save for retirement . . .

Go to school, get a better job and start a 401k.

>or pay for an education?

Go to a state school. They're pretty cheap.

>I guess no one ever had a financial loss late in life. I guess
> investing in 100% safe bonds keeps pace with inflation. I guess no
> one lives longer than they expect to or planned for. Bah, screw the
> old people who worked their whole lives because they didn't invest in
> the right retirement fund. Screw the old people who had pension
> plans through their job that were raided or elliminated due to
> corporate malfeasance.

Life isn't fair. All you get is the chance to make it. Nothing's guaranteed. The good news is that you have the right to choose the path you take, and that means that you also get the right to screw yourself.

[Lindsey 0]

Paying for education....today I'm about $120,000 in debt for mine with about $30,000 more to go. Student loans....subsidized by the federal government...so maybe I'm taking advantage of one of those safety nets right now. BUT it's not difficult to borrow money for education unless you have not been a responsible borrower in the past.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[PhillyKev 0]

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BUT it's not difficult to borrow money for education unless you have not been a responsible borrower in the past.

Or if you didn't finish high school because you were raised in the ghetto and had to get a job at 13 so you could eat.

[PhillyKev 0]

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I do think that there should be some safety nets, but we've gone way overboard in taking care of everyone's needs and wants. People don't have to be responsible for themselves, so more and more people are learning NOT to be.

I agree completely. All I'm saying is that if someone is willing and able to work 40 hours a week, no matter what the job is, they should be able to support the necessities of life for themselves. You CANNOT afford housing, clothes, food, utilities and transportation on minimum wage. That's why welfare is abused. People can make just as much or more by not working as they can by putting in a full week of work. That's just not right. Welfare needs to be there for those truly deserving. So the solution isn't cutting benefits. It would be impossible to investigate every claimant to check their ability to work without it costing tax payers even more. The only viable solution is to insure that people can make a decent living if they work. That's one of the things unions do.

[billvon 3,070]

>All I'm saying is that if someone is willing and able to work 40 hours
> a week, no matter what the job is, they should be able to support
> the necessities of life for themselves.

That's easy in Bozeman, Montana, even on minimum wage. It's next to impossible in Manhattan. So that ideal will never be realized. You have to be smart about where you live, what you eat, how you get to work, where you work etc.

>You CANNOT afford housing, clothes, food, utilities and
> transportation on minimum wage.

In Bozeman you can.

[PhillyKev 0]

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That's easy in Bozeman, Montana, even on minimum wage. It's next to impossible in Manhattan. So that ideal will never be realized. You have to be smart about where you live, what you eat, how you get to work, where you work etc.

So, in places where it's more expensive to live, low paying menial jobs don't need to be done? That commute from Bozeman to NYC to wash dishes is going to eat into that pay check a bit.