Police in US arrest 9 year old rabbit thief!!!!

[skydyvr 0]

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How many nations besides the USA still execute people for crimes committed while juveniles?

How many nations besides the USA have refused to ratify the convention on the human rights of children?

THIS is true though, so it is correct in saying the USA adopts a pretty slack grasp of human rights in this area....

Call it "slack" if you want, but I think our refusal to ratify the convention is a good thing, because there are already too many forces at work here trying to limit and undermine parental authority. Why get the UN in on the deal?

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I am all for giving a child a bit of a telling off or a scare but in this case, the child was treated like a hardened criminal and I find this unacceptable.

I can't make judgments about a situation where the entire picture isn't clear, but . . . I can envision a case where some handcuffs and a quick trip downtown might be productive. I just don't know if this is such a case.

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The fact that the PUBLIC DEFENDER felt this action was too strict when there was other ways of dealing wiht the situation says alot to me...

No surprise there, what would you expect a public defender to say . . . give her life without parole?

. . =(_8^(1)

[Kennedy 0]

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How many nations besides the USA still execute people for crimes committed while juveniles?

Sorry, I don't see much difference between a 17 committing a horrendous crime and an 18 committing the same crime. Way to make it sound like we're cutting off kid's hands for steal bread.

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How many nations besides the USA have refused to ratify the convention on the human rights of children?

Can you tell me which countries serve on the UN council for human rights? Can you explain to me how Saudi Arabia, famous for state ratified kidnapping, has signed it when the convention requires return of children to country of birth, or how China or DPRK can sign it when it requries "States Parties recognize the important function performed by the mass media and shall ensure that the child has access to information and material from a diversity of national and international sources?" Can you explain how this convention does anything at all?

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The USA looks pretty poor in the international arena with respect to treatment of children.

Right, heaven forbid we treat people according to the laws of the land. I guess we should ratify your little treaty and then continue with genocides, mass repression, and such.
Link to the useless convention

I say if the "USA looks pretty poor," then 99% of the ratifiers of the convention look like they're in debt up to their eyeballs.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[kmcguffee 0]

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The USA looks pretty poor in the international arena with respect to treatment of children.

You have got to be kidding! Have you looked at the people who signed this thing? Does that make them look good in the international arena? Some of the countries that signed it have children serving in their armies. They signed it and just plan not to abide by it.

One of the major objections to the treaty is this:

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"In our constitutional form of government, we view basic rights as limitations on the power of government to do things to the individual, rather than requirements that the government do things for people,"

In other words, we are not interested in becoming a socialist government. Many of todays European governments are moving to a Socialist type government very quickly. Also, this convention's policies contain several provisions that conflict with state laws.

As one group opposed to the convention stated:

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"Will the U.N. decide it is `neglect' not to establish government day-care centers?"

IMO, the convention goes too far.

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

[BethUK 0]

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Officers are picking up and taking home up anyone aged 16 and under found on the streets of the designated areas between 9pm and 6am.

Hmm, let us compare...here the police pick the kids up and take them home...there is NO use of handcuffs I guarentee, they are NOT taken to a police station, or questioned without a parents knowledge. They are taken home, because thats the best place for them, I'm glad you highlighted this, as I think it is a direct comparison with how the USA handles situations, with us the police give the kids a lift home, end of story!

Hardly a comparable example!

Beth

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"This isn't flying...it's falling with style!" Buzz Lightyear - Toystory 1

[Gawain 0]

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Officers are picking up and taking home up anyone aged 16 and under found on the streets of the designated areas between 9pm and 6am.

Hmm, let us compare...here the police pick the kids up and take them home...there is NO use of handcuffs I guarentee, they are NOT taken to a police station, or questioned without a parents knowledge. They are taken home, because thats the best place for them, I'm glad you highlighted this, as I think it is a direct comparison with how the USA handles situations, with us the police give the kids a lift home, end of story!

It's in response to what one shopowner is quoted:

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One shopkeeper said he had been plagued by gangs for two years. He said: "They frighten my customers, especially the older people. If you ask these kids politely to go away, they mouth off at you. It's been absolute hell."

Around many shops and convenience stores in the US, there are already "No Loitering" ordinances in place. In many cases, a minor infraction will lead to warning or at worst, a fine. Repeated situations will lead to misdomeanor charges and/or arrest.

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Recently bus services in the Nobel Road area of Clifton were suspended after youths broke windows and released a bus handbrake, causing a £30,000 crash.

Teenage thugs should go to jail, not taken home to mommy and daddy.

Either way, I suspect that like here, not every situation the cops in Nottinghamshire will see, is "cut-and-dry" and certainly many kids will not find their way home if warranted.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[BethUK 0]

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Teenage thugs should go to jail, not taken home to mommy and daddy.

Yup I fully agree, but in the case we are discussing, she was NINE years old and hardly a "thug"....dontcha think??

Beth x

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"This isn't flying...it's falling with style!" Buzz Lightyear - Toystory 1

[Skyrad 0]

Axis of execution: American justice ranked alongside world's most repressive regimes
By Justin Huggler, Asia Correspondent
07 April 2004

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/story.jsp?story=509209

America is just one of just four countries responsible for 84 per cent of executions around the world last year, a report released yesterday by Amnesty International said.

The report groups the US with China, Iran and Vietnam as one of the countries responsible for the overwhelming majority of executions worldwide. It puts America ahead of Saudi Arabia, Sudan and the Democratic Republic of Congo for known executions ­ although in many countries complete figures are unknown. The US and China were the only countries in the world to execute child offenders last year, the report says.

At least 1,146 people were executed in 2003, down from 1,526 in 2002 and 3,048 in 2001, according to Amnesty's figures. China headed the list, far ahead of all other countries, with at least 726 confirmed executions.

But Amnesty stressed that only "limited and incomplete records" were available on China's executions, and the true figure was believed to be much higher. A Chinese legislator suggested last month that his country executed "nearly 10,000" people a year. At least two of last year's known executions in China were carried out by lethal injection in new "execution vans", introduced in March.

Iran was responsible for at least 108 executions last year. The condemned in Iran are often hanged from cranes in public. The US came third with 65 people executed last year, including two men with long histories of mental illness.

Unlike many of the other countries mentioned, there is no secrecy about executions in the US, and complete figures are known.

In Vietnam, 64 people were executed last year, five of them, the report notes, in front of a crowd of about 1,000 onlookers in November.

Saudi Arabia, one of the countries most notorious for executions, where the condemned are beheaded with swords in public squares, came fifth with at least 50 known executions, 26 of them for drug offences.

Conspicuous by their absence from the list were Libya and Syria, both countries linked by the US to its extended "axis of evil". All three of the original "axis of evil" countries ­ Iran, Iraq and North Korea ­ were identified as carrying out executions in 2003, but Amnesty had no figures on how many were executed in Iraq in the dying days of the Saddam regime, or in North Korea. Amnesty released its figures at a meeting of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights in Geneva. Last year the commission called on all countries that allow capital punishment in their laws to agree to a moratorium on executions.

"The intense secrecy that surrounds use of the death penalty in many countries makes this depressing log of last year's executions an underestimate of the true extent of the use of this outdated punishment early in the 21st century," Lesley Warner of Amnesty said yesterday. "In China alone we fear that many thousands of people ... are being executed in secret each year, the majority after shockingly unfair trials.

"The US's defiant stance over executing those convicted for crimes committed as children is one particular area of concern, sending a dangerous message around the world. We call on the US to abandon child-offender executions as a first measure towards ending all judicial killing."

The report noted that 113 prisoners had been released from death row in America since 1973 because evidence had emerged that they were innocent of the crimes of which they were convicted ­ raising the possibility that other innocent men and women went to their deaths.

Evidence often emerged of police misconduct, use of unreliable witness testimony or confessions, and inadequate defence representation.

The report highlighted the case of Kenny Richey, a Scot who has spent 17 years on death row in Ohio, convicted of arson and murder. Richey is appealing against his death sentence, and attempting to have fresh evidence heard in an attempt to prove his innocence.

Kate Allen of Amnesty said of Richey: "His case is one of the most compelling cases of apparent innocence that human rights campaigners have ever seen."
12 April 2004 12:49

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[Kennedy 0]

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Axis of execution: American justice ranked alongside world's most repressive regimes
America is just one of just four countries responsible for 84 per cent of executions around the world last year, a report released yesterday by Amnesty International said.

Nice title and openning. Too bad they disprove it in their own article. Oh, wow, we executed 65 whole people last year. We must be mosters.

I guess you don't count any that aren't reported. What about farmers in Zimbabwe? Political dissenters in China? Drinkers in Saudi Arabia? Ethnics in Yugoslavia?

And I suppose beheadings don't bother you more than lethal injection. Or public executions. Or the use of "execution vans" rolling door to door.

ps - show me one instance of a child being executed. I said child, not juvenile. There is a diference.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[turtlespeed 226]

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That's just not right. What possible threat to society could a 9 year old girl pose??? Shame.

I bet she won't do it again though. EVER.
And I kinda like that.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[DrunkMonkey 0]

I'd be willing to bet that if we started executing some of these friggin parasitic drug dealers, we'd see the drug trade slow up substantially. Saudis have it the right way--publicly execute these human vermin and let all see the results of breaking drug laws.

I'm tired of coddling prisoners. I don't care if it costs more--f**king remove them from existence. Stop giving them 3 hots & a cot, with cable TV for life.

[JohnRich 4]

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here the police pick the kids up and take them home... there is NO use of handcuffs...

It's interesting how you skipped over this part of the story which I posted: "Failure to comply can result in a maximum fine of £2,500 or three months in jail..."

So those little hooligans of yours can do three months hard time.

Furthermore, do you think it is fair to generalize about how police treat child thiefs in America, based upon a single incident?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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It's interesting how you skipped over this part of the story which I posted: "Failure to comply can result in a maximum fine of £2,500 or three months in jail..."

That line was preceded by a line explaining that those who do not live locally will be asked to leave the immediate area and can be prohibited to return to the area for up to 24 hours.

I am sure there are many 9 year olds hanging out in bad parts of town while they realy live 100 miles away.

In Canada anyone under 12 can not be charged with a crime.

[Gawain 0]

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In Canada anyone under 12 can not be charged with a crime.

So, a 12 year old can literally get away with murder. That's greeeaaaaaaaaat.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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So, a 12 year old can literally get away with murder. That's greeeaaaaaaaaat.

No, what's greaaaaaaaaaaat is that I live in a society where 12 year olds generally do not murder other people

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[Jimbo 0]

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No, what's greaaaaaaaaaaat is that I live in a society where 12 year olds generally do not murder other people

If you look at the numbers, 12 year olds in the US generally do not murder other people. However, if they do, you can bet your last dollar that they'll be punished. How would they be treated in Canada?

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

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Perhaps, now, this 9 year old will think before she acts and grow up to respect others and their property.

Or, perhaps she will grow up resenting her mother for what she let happen to her as a child, and will be justified in her ever-growing contempt toward the society in which she lives.

One of the two
Angela.

[Kennedy 0]

Angela, you're not justifed in hating someone just because they did something you don't like. Ask quade about following the rules.

If you commit a crime, you receive something you don't like (punishment). Don't resent those who gave it to you, just don't do it again.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Nightingale 0]

you can be justified in resenting someone if what they did to you was unjust.

For example, the people in Ireland who, in the early part of this century, were thrown into Kilmainham Jail or shipped off to Botany Bay for stealing a loaf of bread. It was the law, but it was an unjust law. I think they had a right to resent the people who did that to them.

There's nothing wrong with resenting the law if the law is unjust, provided that resentment is channeled into something constructive, such as actually DOING something about the unjust law.


**All this is hypothetical. I don't feel we have enough info regarding the rabbit snatcher to make a call on the fairness of it all**

[ltdiver 3]

Or they could just make lemonade out of the lemons someone handed them.

Or, as a card I read said in response to lemons being handed you: "Stick 'em in your bra! We could all use the help!"

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[ltdiver 3]

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Perhaps, now, this 9 year old will think before she acts and grow up to respect others and their property.

Or, perhaps she will grow up resenting her mother for what she let happen to her as a child, and will be justified in her ever-growing contempt toward the society in which she lives.

One of the two
Angela.

I have a hard time understanding those who blame their distant past for ruining their current life. Doesn't it hurt to be held back and give someone else's behavior control over your life? (not directed at you, but in general speak).

I get tired of people blaming everyone but themselves for their current state.

For example on how to overcome, read the most excellent book, Gifted Hands. A story about a inner city kid who overcame racism and poverty (in a single parent household, too), to become a world famous pediatric cerebral neurosurgeon.

He had a choice of joining the gangs in his neighborhood, or being different. He chose to walk a different path.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

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I have a hard time understanding those who blame their distant past for ruining their current life. Doesn't it hurt to be held back and give someone else's behavior control over your life? (not directed at you, but in general speak).

You don't have to understand them... believe me, it happens. I, for one, still have some resentment toward my mother. Do I blame her for things in my present life... I try not to, but I do blame her actions (or lack thereof) for some things. As a parent, one has the responsibility of protecting their child. Of course, being overbearing is not good, either. Parents also need to discipline, though, so I am not saying sit back and do nothing. I simply don't think that sending a 9 year old downtown is necessary. I would assume that there are other things that could have been done to get through to this child. Although I do not speak from experience as I am not a parent, I was a difficult child and doubt this would have helped me one bit. (I know that Juvinille hall at 12 years old did nothing but make me worse).

Angela.

[Ripple 0]

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9 year olds eventually turn into 19 year olds.

Sometimes you don't even have to wait that long http://www.jamesbulger.org/

Next Mood Swing: 6 minutes

[Nightingale 0]

Those kids are f-ing insane. They belong in institutions, not jail cells.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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If you look at the numbers, 12 year olds in the US generally do not murder other people. However, if they do, you can bet your last dollar that they'll be punished. How would they be treated in Canada?

It is the belief of the Canadian Justice System that kids under 12 do not have the legal mental capacity to understand their actions and hence are by definition not punishable.

[Nightingale 0]

having taught elementary school, I would concur with that assessment. 12 year olds can't even plan ahead for next week, much less truly understand the consequences for committing a crime.

there has to be a better alternative. Letting them off completely isn't a good idea, but neither is letting them rot in jail. they're just kids.