Spotting Question

[freakflyer9999 1]

After reading through the thread, I would venture a guess that as others have mentioned, the pilot was flying a non-standard jump run on the way to altitude so that you could exit as a solo jumper on the pass. In this case you don't need a long jump run following the wind line, just a few moments over the correct spot. Now with that said, it would have been nice, if the pilot had told you that it was non-standard.

I personally would never exit without either confirming the spot myself or having someone I trust confirm the spot. In my opinion, you shouldn't have exited the aircraft under the circumstances that you described.

You also don't mention scanning for traffic. As others have mentioned this is also a critical part of spotting.

My suggestion would be to find a Cessna 182 DZ and fine tune your spotting skills.

[PWScottIV 0]

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I think what he's getting at is situational awareness...

I know what he was saying... I was just joking around with him about not knowing what happened, because he WAS actually on that load with me...

Gravity Waits for No One.

[PWScottIV 0]

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Your profile says you are a student with 21 jumps, and your post says this was your first hop and pop. I think you should have had a coach or an instructor with you for that jump. Absent an assigned coach, you could have mentioned to an experienced jumper by the door that you might need help, and asked for progressive guidance. If (as happens at many DZ’s) a jumper is saying “THE GREEN LIGHT IS ON GET OUT, GET OUT,” he is not being helpful. An alternative is for him to smile and say something like “…that large clump of trees and that house are just north of the field, so the airport is back there. The spots fine, you should be able to jump. Have a good one.” That takes about 20 seconds. Many non-instructors don’t understand the distinction, or why it’s so important to be supportive in a high stress situation.

I’d also say that you shouldn’t get out if you are not comfortable with the spot, and it’s pretty hard to be comfortable if you have no idea where you are, or don’t have an instructor/coach to assist. I’m guessing this was designed as a low altitude learning jump for you, rather than everybody doing a hop and pop. The hop and pop is an important training event, obviously because of the shorter freefall time, but also because of the spotting differences, the short time to get ready for exit, and the general stresses associated with it. If others were rushing you because they wanted to get out, my suggestion would be to let them jump and hopefully get a second pass from the pilot with a bit of guidance about where the DZ is. If the jump run was just for you, I’d ask for a go around and explain the problem. Mistakes happen, and sometimes a new jumper gets confused. A good DZ will invest the flight time to be sure every student is safe, and has a chance to learn. Pilots are human and they sometimes get angry, but it’s your safety on the line. Plus, keep in mind a typical jump only costs about $20.00 - $25.00, and if you aren’t comfortable it’s well worth staying in the airplane and taking the financial loss.

It sounds like you understand that it’s also a good idea to know the jump run and exit points before you get in the airplane. You can do this by watching a few loads before it’s your turn, asking manifest or an instructor, or asking the pilot. That should give you an idea of what to expect. Of course the jump run may change in flight because of winds or traffic, so be familiar with the entire area so you know where the DZ is even if you can’t see it. It sounds like that has happened, and you learned from the jump. Also, at big turbine DZ’s the pilot may put you out on a low pass while climbing to normal altitude, so he might not have time to set-up a standard or expected jump run.

Others reading this would do well to recognize how stress can build, and why a beginner may need some extra help. We were all in that position once, and when things get weird in the airplane we should help novices to learn and grow. I’m convinced that part of the retention problem in our sport is caused by beginners becoming too stressed by everything demanded of them in the fast paced turbine world we now jump in, so they quit. Back in the day every experienced jumper made it a point to help support beginners and nurture them into our world. In many places (especially big DZ’s) that nurturing/mentor relationship between beginners and old-hands is gone. We should all work to bring it back.

Thanks a lot for the feedback! I agree with all of that.

Gravity Waits for No One.

[sparkie 0]

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Spotting starts long before jumprun. I make it a practice to be aware of my position relative to the DZ the entire ride to altitude. Often to keep the climb economical a hop and pop jumprun will be different than the jumprun at altitude.

You have no idea of what happened... You sound like you think you were there or somthin... lol Ok, so maybe you were, lol. I know I should have known where we were and I was trying to look out the door for recognizable landmarks, but for whatever reason I wasn't able to... I'm sure part of it was that I was sort of stressed about exiting so low. I usually begin to pull by 4k, so exiting at 3.5k was definitely weighing a bit on my mind.
In the end everything was ok, but I was just wondering what others would think, regarding me leaving the plane without knowing exactly where I was... And if it was typical to not have any pre-jump or in-flight communication between the first person exiting and the pilot... Any more than "Jump on Green"...

Just get yoyrself a bit more familiar with the terrain around the dz. I was a gliderpilot for a very long time so I know the area very well (back in the early days ;P we did not have gps and had to navigate by comparing the map with the ground) I found that that helps A LOT. Dont worry too much for now I'd say. Keep looking out the window the rides up and soon you will know where the dz is even if you dont see it. Not seeing it at exit isnt always a reason to abort exit imo. You could be drirectly above it or just off tthe centerline with the door on the "wrong" side.

edit: OMG the typos I made before I even touched the Jaegermeister!

[John4455 0]

It is my opinion that spotting is better learned out of a cessna, with some one helping you learn, rather than just going through the motions to get the card signed off.

How do ya like it Johnny?

[MagicGuy 0]

At 21 jumps I'm sure that you're probably still getting used to the geography of the dropzone and the surrounding areas. I know at 21 jumps I sure was.

Study the aerical picture of the DZ a lot to better familiarize yourself with the area. Then think about the winds and before asking where the spot is, tell them what YOU think it is. It's good practice for learning how to accurately spot.

As far as that situation, I probably wouldn't have jumped. It's your ass on the line. If I don't know the spot or I think it's a bad spot, I won't jump. But I'm not afraid to ask what the spot is either. Try to have a good idea of what the spot is before you get on the plane to avoid confusion when it comes time to exit.