rgoper 0 #1 April 19, 2004 with all of the rhetoric out there right now about who did what, when and where regarding the war in Iraq, what does the majority of you tax paying citizens believe, and how long is your "care factor?" (mine is 36" shy of a yard) i'm tiring of excuses from washington, i know that the war in Iraq was supposed to be 3 days of "Shock & Awe" well, i'd say we got shocked all right, but i've yet to be awed. consider the following: 1) we're still on track to hand the Iraquis power on Jume the 30th (can they handle it?) 2) when should we leave? 3) do the people of Iraq even want us there? 4) how many of us have family there, and do these indivuduals that do think we should be in a country such as Iraq trying to "liberate" them? 5) will this chain of events cost GWB the upcoming election? 6) could the 09/11 incident have been avoided if our agencies would have worked together? 7) should we just pull out, and turn the whole freaking place into a "glass parking lot?" 8) did you believe even half of Condeleeza Rice's testamony? 9) last, but not least did we make a mistake by going there to begin with, especially in a country where the people hate us anyway? I'm sure my feelings about the current administration are well known, but nonetheless we are there, and it looks like we'll be there for a lot longer even though a lot of countries are pulling their troops out of the country. we're (the USA) are even being linked to the assinations of the leaders of Hamas, not that we would have a hand in such an activity. it's certainly a tragic situation, one we will be left with a bad taste in our mouths for years to come. please post your thought and any others you may have on this "situation"--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #2 April 19, 2004 I believe most of what Bob Woodward has to say on the subject -- mostly because it's based on interviews from about 70 officials in the Administration including and on the record, GWB himself. Also, Bob Woodward is one of the most respected journalists alive today. His work if very well documented with lots of support material. He's one of the reasons I got into news early on. That said -- it's pretty shocking how poorly this entire this thing was planned (or not planned as the case may be) and it's also shocking to hear quotes from GWB about how he feels it's his duty to free people around the world. Who the heck gave him -that- mandate or power? Where is that in the Constitution? Further, it's painfully clear to me that very few of these people ever read chapter 1 of "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu. Specifically paragraph 26: Quote 26. Now the general who wins a battle makes many calculations in his temple ere the battle is fought. The general who loses a battle makes but few calculations beforehand. Thus do many calculations lead to victory, and few calculations to defeat: how much more no calculation at all! It is by attention to this point that I can foresee who is likely to win or lose. It is even more shocking to hear the story of the access of Prince Bandar of Saudi Arabia had to the plans. If you missed the 60 Minutes program last night -- you really missed out. Here are some links: Bloomberg NY Timesquade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #3 April 19, 2004 Quote...it's painfully clear to me that very few of these people ever read chapter 1 of "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu. Since Sun Tzu is required reading at all the US service academies, as well as most ROTC programs, I'd guess that what you really meant was something more like "it's painfully clear to me that few of these people remember their Sun Tzu." I agree that that's a shame. Sun Tzu had almost as many good things to say as Jimmy Buffett. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #4 April 19, 2004 Hey Richard, where ya been? Quote 1) we're still on track to hand the Iraquis power on June the 30th (can they handle it?) Based on some recent news, I would say no. However, I believe that our forces will continue to participate. I also believe that these most recent outbreaks of violence are geared to try and prevent a handover by June 30. Quote2) when should we leave? When we're ready. Quote3) do the people of Iraq even want us there? Depends on who you ask I bet! Quote4) how many of us have family there, and do these indivuduals that do think we should be in a country such as Iraq trying to "liberate" them? I don't have family there, but I know a couple people there that I would like to consider friends. Quote5) will this chain of events cost GWB the upcoming election? Nope. Quote6) could the 09/11 incident have been avoided if our agencies would have worked together? Perhaps, but laws in place at the time, prevented effecient communication. Quote7) should we just pull out, and turn the whole freaking place into a "glass parking lot?" No. Quote8) did you believe even half of Condeleeza Rice's testamony? I believed all of it. Quote9) last, but not least did we make a mistake by going there to begin with, especially in a country where the people hate us anyway? That's kind of tied to question #3. I don't know that the situation is that "absolute".So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #5 April 20, 2004 QuoteThat said -- it's pretty shocking how poorly this entire this thing was planned (or not planned as the case may be) and it's also shocking to hear quotes from GWB about how he feels it's his duty to free people around the world. Who the heck gave him -that- mandate or power? Where is that in the Constitution? I only seen extracts from the 60 minutes thing down here. I was not surprised. More then a year ago there was a documentary on Australian TV explaining the thinking and strategy of the neo-Conservatives. People like Wolverwitz (spelling?) and Pearl were interviewed amongst others. I was at the time very surprised how “simple” the thinking was and thought the program surely was “doctored” to give this impression. More then a year later I know it was not. The strategy was to go into Iraq and secure a strategic foothold in the Middle East from where the US can control the most strategic region in the world (oil, geography, religion). It came clearly across that these guys really believed that the Iraqis would welcome them with open arms, Wolverwitz’ pal Chelvi (spelling?) would be put into power and everything else would fall into place. With basis in Iraq the regimes in Syria and Iran would then be overthrown later. It is now becoming clear that the current US administration really believed this crap.--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #6 April 20, 2004 QuoteHey Richard, where ya been? i'll give ya 13 guesses, the first 12 don't count! (a break was needed, for me and everybody else! ) no, i've been steady on the retrieval of hydrocarbons to feed the nations thirst for oil & natural gas, currently in McAllen, Texas on a Flex3 generation drilling rig, it's good to be out of Saudi. you had some pretty good responses to the questions i threw out there. i believed all of condaleeza's testamony as well, i just wished she would have answered a few of the questions. i also believe that those of us who don't have immediate family members over there don't feel as strong as those of us that do have immediate family members there, either in the military or civilian workers, some of whom have been taken captive. for the most part, i do think this little incident wll cost GWB the next election, although i do think he'll be relieved when he loses. i'm off! later! --Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #7 April 21, 2004 Quotewe're (the USA) are even being linked to the assinations of the leaders of Hamas, not that we would have a hand in such an activity. it's certainly a tragic situation, one we will be left with a bad taste in our mouths for years to come Are you Serious?????? What is the big tragity here? That the Jews are wiping out Hamas leadership? That is a good thing. It is about time another country has stood up for itself and said we are not going to take it anymore. Your statement is like saying it would be tragic if we began to assasinate AlQueda leaders. Hamas is a terrorist organization and they are proud of it. Therefore, they should die. It is a fact that Hamas has said no jew is safe we will target every and all citizens of ISREAL .... I say kill the uncivilized Hamas shitheads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Chris ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #8 April 21, 2004 QuoteYour statement is like saying it would be tragic if we began to assasinate AlQueda leaders my comment was tongue in cheek. hell yes i know we are linked to killing the perps. if it were up to me we'd have the glass parking lot, quick & permanent fix, and end of problem. in the end, these people have been killing each other before the bible was written, and will continue to do so, all for religion....go figure.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,563 #9 April 22, 2004 QuoteIt is a fact that Hamas has said no jew is safe we will target every and all citizens of ISREAL .... I say kill the uncivilized Hamas shitheads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Damn straight, no Hamas member is safe, we will target every and all supporters of HAMAS. Hey wait....Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
