Are you pro-life and support oral contraceptives?

[pajarito 0]

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Men have no right to even discuss this topic ever. Comprendae ? Should be a women only decision, discussion, and all the laws etc.

I definitely disagree with that generalization of not being allowed to even discuss it. If one considers the conceived organism a human being, it makes it more than just the mother's issue to deal with. Even though it's connected and living inside her body, it is still a separate being. If that is the case, abortion, generally speaking, would be considered the killing of an innocent life.

[Erroll 80]

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Men have no right to even discuss this topic ever. Comprendae ?

What utter nonsense! If my wife had to fall pregnant I would expect her to discuss the issue/possibility of terminating the pregnancy with me. For every woman carrying a fertilised egg, there is a man who produced the sperm and who is the father.

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Should be a women only decision

Absolutely. Ultimately, it has to be the woman's decision.

For the record, I voted pro-choice.

[billvon 2,998]

>Men have no right to even discuss this topic ever.

Only if women have no say in things like palimony, prosecution of most rape cases or circumcision of their male children.

[weegegirl 2]

Sometimes when people "discuss" an issue, the topic evolves with the discussion.

[freeflygoddess 0]

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Men have no right to even discuss this topic ever. Comprendae ? Should be a women only decision, discussion, and all the laws etc.

I definitely disagree with that generalization of not being allowed to even discuss it. If one considers the conceived organism a human being, it makes it more than just the mother's issue to deal with. Even though it's connected and living inside her body, it is still a separate being. If that is the case, abortion, generally speaking, would be considered the killing of an innocent life.

Yes men have a right to disscus this issue, when the were the "sperm donor" Never in my life could I agree with a woman getting an abortion without speaking to the father first. Unless there was a rape involved or a life threating issue, but sometimes those life threating issues should be disscussed with the father as well. I made sure that when I found out I was pregnant Todd and I disscussed everything that could go wrong, since I have low iron and blood sugar as well has four holes in my heart which causes my heart murmer. In the last trimesters of all of my past pregnancy I had to stay in the hospital, and I am sure it will be the same this time, esp. since the doctor thinks we are having twins, wont know for sure until the sonogram, but it seems to be true. Any ways, all I am saying is the father has right to discuss the issue. Guys who have no clue what it will be like to be pregnant EVER should decide for a women that was raped weather or not she should keep the baby. Just think if you had an 11 year old daughter who was raped and became pregnant, what whould you want for her to do really?

[AggieDave 6]

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Men have no right to even discuss this topic ever. Comprendae ? Should be a women only decision, discussion, and all the laws etc.

You're kidding, right? If my Fiance got pregnant, I would want to know. We would come to our conclusions together, as a couple.

I'm guessing you're not married, atleast I don't see how such a selfish attitude could let a marriage survive!


See, once again, its the extremist from both sides that make this such a hot issue. It seems to me that reasonable people tend to have intelligent conversations about this topic but the extremists tend to "yell" their opinion then get irrate when someone disagrees with them.

Sad.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[weegegirl 2]

I agree. I think that the decision should be of equal importance and input from both the man and woman. I also would never promote or agree with an abortion based on normal circumstances... if a man and a woman concentually have sex and pregnancy occurs. Then it is, in my opinion, their responsibility to have the child.

The reason I am pro-choice is really specifically for the cases where it is a rape victim who may not be fit to mother that child anyway. In most of those cases, the man doesn't stick around to give his opinion. I just think that abortion is a big-time gray area, and to outlaw it would be too extreme.

I also see nothing wrong with oral contraceptives or other preventative measures.

[freeflygoddess 0]

IF they out law oral contraceptives, then should they not also outlaw condoms? I mean that is the same thing, denying the sperm a way to the egg.... What would happen then? Oh lots and lots of HIV patients running around, having HIV born kids... pretty soon everyone whould have some sort of STD and every child would be born with one, since abortion would be illegel as well.... What then? Oh in about 100 years there would be no one left.... Yep, that sounds good...

People need to stop and think about what they are really preaching to others and see where it leads them to into the future....

[Lindsey 0]

The issue with oral contraceptives that started this thread is that one of the actions of oral contraceptives is to change the uterine lining so that it cannot support a pregnancy. The pill, if taken correctly should keep a woman from ovulating, but people often miss doses of medications. So an embryo (really not even an embryo at this stage) would be miscarried. My point earlier was that if the pill is 98-99% effective, then there is 1-2% chance of pregnancy while on the pill. Somewhere between those two is a percentage of embryos that do not survive due to actions of the pill.

Peace~
Lindsey

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IF they out law oral contraceptives, then should they not also outlaw condoms? I mean that is the same thing, denying the sperm a way to the egg.... What would happen then? Oh lots and lots of HIV patients running around, having HIV born kids... pretty soon everyone whould have some sort of STD and every child would be born with one, since abortion would be illegel as well.... What then? Oh in about 100 years there would be no one left.... Yep, that sounds good...

People need to stop and think about what they are really preaching to others and see where it leads them to into the future....

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[freeflygoddess 0]

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The issue with oral contraceptives that started this thread is that one of the actions of oral contraceptives is to change the uterine lining so that it cannot support a pregnancy. The pill, if taken correctly should keep a woman from ovulating, but people often miss doses of medications. So an embryo (really not even an embryo at this stage) would be miscarried. My point earlier was that if the pill is 98-99% effective, then there is 1-2% chance of pregnancy while on the pill. Somewhere between those two is a percentage of embryos that do not survive due to actions of the pill.

Peace~
Lindsey

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IF they out law oral contraceptives, then should they not also outlaw condoms? I mean that is the same thing, denying the sperm a way to the egg.... What would happen then? Oh lots and lots of HIV patients running around, having HIV born kids... pretty soon everyone whould have some sort of STD and every child would be born with one, since abortion would be illegel as well.... What then? Oh in about 100 years there would be no one left.... Yep, that sounds good...

People need to stop and think about what they are really preaching to others and see where it leads them to into the future....

Well that is not entirelly true I got pregnant with my daughter while taking Ortho Tri Cyclen, I took it correctly for two years, and never even had a period at all for those two years, I had no clue I was pregnant with her until my fith month. I was so scared and worried that there was something wrong with her because I didn't know and I was continueing o take the pill, when I didn't know, and I drank an aweful lot, because I didn't have a clue. Only when I started to gain weight in just my belly did I even start to ask to ask the doctor what was wrong, and even then I still didn't believe I was pregnant, but Iwas and then I made sure they did every test they could to see if not knowing for so long caused any harm, thankfully nothing was wrong, I am not sure what I would have done had there have been, but I am very glad that she is here today, She is so sweet and special...well my son is too...I guess every mom says that.

I was just going to the extreme because people tend to do that.

[pajarito 0]

Lindsey...come on now...I know you're the Med student. My wife (OB/GYN Physician) even asked her partner (who's been in practice for probably 15 years) about what we've been talking about. He even said that prevention of pregnancy with OC's resulting in the inability of the embryo to implant isn't all that common. It's way down the list.

Some modes of action but not limited to. There are more.
1. Primary: Prevent ovulation.
2. Thicken cervical mucus limiting sperm mobility.
3. Inhibit capacitation (changes sperm goes through in order to be capable of penetrating the egg with the release of enzymes) and sperm survivability.
4. Alters mobility through the tube thus imparing transport of both ova and sperm.
5. Preventing implantation by causing changes in the endometrial lining.

In addition, some women even when using OC’s properly, will get pregnant and carry the baby to term.

Freeflygoddess apparently hasn’t read the whole discussion concerning the topic in both threads. The whole condom thing is ridiculous in the context of what we’re talking about.

[Darius11 12]

Pro choice-as long as it is not passed 3 months.
For my own beliefs that there is no spirit until after the first trimester.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[pajarito 0]

Again, let me clarify by saying, IF taken properly.

[pajarito 0]

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Pro choice-as long as it is not passed 3 months.
For my own beliefs that there is no spirit until after the first trimester.

Darius...I respect your opinions...but how do you know that? Is that just a guess on your part or is it a religious thing? Not being sarcastic at all. I'm just curious.

[pajarito 0]

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IF they out law oral contraceptives, then should they not also outlaw condoms? I mean that is the same thing, denying the sperm a way to the egg.... What would happen then? Oh lots and lots of HIV patients running around, having HIV born kids... pretty soon everyone whould have some sort of STD and every child would be born with one, since abortion would be illegel as well.... What then? Oh in about 100 years there would be no one left.... Yep, that sounds good...

People need to stop and think about what they are really preaching to others and see where it leads them to into the future....

The issue is with killing a human life after it has been formed (i.e. abortion). Not preventing one of my multi-million sperms from swimming laps.

[freeflygoddess 0]

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Freeflygoddess apparently hasn’t read the whole discussion concerning the topic in both threads. The whole condom thing is ridiculous in the context of what we’re talking about.

No I read it I was just going to the extreme, because there always is someone that does...I wasn't in any way agreeing with outlawng anything...I was just makeing people see the whole picture, with their views...like something simpler....Putting labels on coffee at McDonalds to say that is Hot...well duh, but if they are that ignorent then they should have to put lables on eveything...according to teir own arguments...like outlawing abortion, their views then seem to point to outlawing birth control, which in turn seem to out law every contraceptive, except the only contriceptive that is 100% safe and that is abstonince...then there still would eventually not be any one in the world left.... I was just doing the extrimist point of view, since I doubt everyone will stop having sex...

[pajarito 0]

I think there should be warning labels on women's panties. It should be obvious that you're getting yourself into trouble when dealing with them but, you know,....it took me a long time to figure it out.

[Lindsey 0]

Pajarito...come on now....I'm not saying that it is THE PRIMARY mode of action. I agree with you. All I'm saying (so that she would understand where this topic came from) was that:

1) If 1-2% of people get pregnant while on the pill (and I'm not specifying if they take it correctly) then

2) at LEAST that many have made it past the first few modes of operation (i.e. ovulation, thickened secretions) and then

3) Some percentage in there (between the 1-2% who got pregnant and the 98-99% who did not) were stopped due to the other effect (i.e. atrophy of the endometrium). It may be down on the list in terms of what is MEANT to occur, but there are no studies that I'm aware of that can quantify that. I would imagine that the way a person takes the pill probably affects the percentage of pregnancies that are avoided this way though (that is just my own speculation though).

Are we on the same page?

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Lindsey...come on now...I know you're the Med student. My wife (OB/GYN Physician) even asked her partner (who's been in practice for probably 15 years) about what we've been talking about. He even said that prevention of pregnancy with OC's resulting in the inability of the embryo to implant isn't all that common. It's way down the list.

Some modes of action but not limited to. There are more.
1. Primary: Prevent ovulation.
2. Thicken cervical mucus limiting sperm mobility.
3. Inhibit capacitation (changes sperm goes through in order to be capable of penetrating the egg with the release of enzymes) and sperm survivability.
4. Alters mobility through the tube thus imparing transport of both ova and sperm.
5. Preventing implantation by causing changes in the endometrial lining.

In addition, some women even when using OC’s properly, will get pregnant and carry the baby to term.

Freeflygoddess apparently hasn’t read the whole discussion concerning the topic in both threads. The whole condom thing is ridiculous in the context of what we’re talking about.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[pajarito 0]

I'm tracking with ya. Go girl!

[freeflygoddess 0]

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I think there should be warning labels on women's panties. It should be obvious that you're getting yourself into trouble when dealing with them but, you know,....it took me a long time to figure it out.

yep, everything and everyone should have lables, because after all we are all too stupid to think for ourselves....lol...Why can't people just stop and think about what they are saying and preaching to others? I mean really really think of the outcomes. Like blaming someone's abusive parents for their abusive behaviour, where would that stop? I mean then you have to blame their parent's parents and so on and so on...eventually everyone is to blame for one person's action, when really there is no one to blame but the orginal person. Same thing with every thing else ever brought up. In reality there is only yourself to blame in anything. Like me posting this...yeah it is really just for me to read because no one will really read and understand what I am writting as well as I can....

[pajarito 0]

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yep, everything and everyone should have lables, because after all we are all too stupid to think for ourselves....lol...Why can't people just stop and think about what they are saying and preaching to others? I mean really really think of the outcomes. Like blaming someone's abusive parents for their abusive behaviour, where would that stop? I mean then you have to blame their parent's parents and so on and so on...eventually everyone is to blame for one person's action, when really there is no one to blame but the orginal person. Same thing with every thing else ever brought up. In reality there is only yourself to blame in anything. Like me posting this...yeah it is really just for me to read because no one will really read and understand what I am writting as well as I can....

That sounded awfully conservative. I like it. You sure you want your friends to hear you talking like that since you're so close to California?

[rhino 0]

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I just think that abortion is a big-time gray area

Their is nothing grey about the life that was created.. Nothing grey about killing an innocent child....

[Darius11 12]

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Darius...I respect your opinions...but how do you know that? Is that just a guess on your part or is it a religious thing? Not being sarcastic at all. I'm just curious.

I really don't know that it is right or wrong.
On this subject I am following blind (something I rarely do).
I remember that was a stance of a religious leader and it sounded good too me.

I have no doubt that I am pro choice as I do believe it is a womans body. I actually think the father should have a say also. How much of a say I have no clue.

This is one of the most difficult subjects. I do believe in a soul, and if there is no soul then there has been no murder. Can I prove that off course not.
Am I a hundred percent sure of my stance No.

This is one of the things that I really can't ever say i am 100% or even 70% sure, and my stance could change at any time.

Sorry if I don’t have a good explanation.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[freeflygoddess 0]

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That sounded awfully conservative. I like it. You sure you want your friends to hear you talking like that since you're so close to California?

yep being a Texas chick that moved to AZ for a bit then moved to Cali, sure does make living here seem like pure hell...Cali is so socially and politaclly correct it is driving me crazy! It is bad to disapline your children here, no yelling or telling them not to do something, let alone spanking them or punishing them, but when they grow up to be drug crazied murdering teens, then it is all your fault. I was spanked as a child and yelled at and punished alot and I turned out allright. Shoot if I said a dirty word infornt of my mother she would wash my mouth out with soap, oh my gosh she should be thrown in jail here for that....please...California is so screwed up with the way the think...like moving the pine beetles to Idywild...now they have killed all the pine trees and when a fire gets started there then the whole mountain will go up, what then? No more trees...geez, and they worry about all those trees that people cut down for building homes.

[pajarito 0]

I've only been out West twice. Once to Yuma, AZ and once to Portland, OR. Beutiful out there! I just wish some of it would crack off and sink in the ocean.