mr2mk1g 10 #1 April 28, 2004 I recently travelled back to Europe from LA on Air France. Whilst I was generally surprised by the overall crappy service my friend and I received, there was a far more concerning issue highlighted by our trip. 1. We were given metal knifes and forks (not overly sharp, but full-tang, metal knives with serrated edges that could easily cause lethal stab wounds). 2. We were also given small glass bottles of wine - a perfect size to be broken and used as a stabbing/slashing implement. 3. There were also full sized bottles of champagne in self-service galley areas that would have been lethal if used as a blunt-force weapon. Bare in mind that I removed my hook knife from my carry-on rig before travel and my friend had his key-ring bottle opener confiscated by customs, where there was a big sign saying "No nail clippers". Does this seem stupid to anyone else? Being worried about such pathetic items as nail clippers yet actually providing passengers with metal knives and large heavy bat shaped objects. This wasn't even in business class either - it was coach... so a terrorist doesn't even need to be well funded in order to take over an Air France plane! (p.s. travel Virgin or Continental - Air France in-flight entertainment, food and overall service really really suck). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #2 April 28, 2004 and did you have your rig as carry-on ?? how did it go through in Paris ???scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #3 April 28, 2004 This happened to me last time I flew Southwest. Steak knives... sigh... I didn't order alcohol, so I'm not sure if it would've been in a glass bottle or not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #4 April 28, 2004 I've carried my hook knife on about 20 flights since 9/11. I've never been stopped for it. I think the screeners have a list of things to look for, and hook knife just isn't on it.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #5 April 28, 2004 me too... but the point is normally they DO NOT let you with a rig as carryon luggage in Paris CDG airport, they consider it as a CatIV weapon...scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #6 April 28, 2004 I've never flown into CDG. It was more a general observation about airline/airport security screenings.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #7 April 28, 2004 well, never do if you have your rig with you... just an observation. Last trip was to south africa, my rig passed like if it was just nothing (when you look at the image on the screen you see all the cables, springs etc... really funny image) and just after that you see this family mother or business man who gets a body search scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #8 April 28, 2004 I don't know if this has anythingto do with it, but the last time I flew via CDG was pre pre 9/11. The Air France flight was to/from Lagos, and this was the first time I'd seen air marshall type heavies on a flight.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #9 April 28, 2004 Both of us were carrying rigs as hand luggage as we passed through CDG - both outbound and on the way back we had three between us. As it was a transit stop we had to go through both incoming and outgoing security checks. Not a single issue with our rigs which were x-rayed and my mates was hand checked on boarding the plane. The screener abandoned the search when he was told it was a rig and was given a flat "NO!" when he asked my mate to open it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #10 April 28, 2004 lucky people... a group of friends travelling to Russia went through CDG and their rigs were not authorised in cabin. I took Lufthansa through FRA and was no problem...scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #11 April 28, 2004 Quote Does this seem stupid to anyone else? Being worried about such pathetic items as nail clippers yet actually providing passengers with metal knives and large heavy bat shaped objects. This wasn't even in business class either - it was coach... so a terrorist doesn't even need to be well funded in order to take over an Air France plane! It's not something as simple as a knife or a broken bottle that allows a terrorist to take over an airplane; it's the general attitude, and willingness to comply, of the people on board. I suspect that if we hadn't spent the last decade or so raising a nation of pussies that this wouldn't be a problem. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathaniel 0 #12 April 28, 2004 Quote 1. We were given metal knifes and forks (not overly sharp, but full-tang, metal knives with serrated edges that could easily cause lethal stab wounds). 2. We were also given small glass bottles of wine - a perfect size to be broken and used as a stabbing/slashing implement. 3. There were also full sized bottles of champagne in self-service galley areas that would have been lethal if used as a blunt-force weapon. I've seen all of these things beyond the security checkpoint in every commercial airport in the US I've been to. Jimbo hit the nail on the head. nathanielMy advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #13 April 28, 2004 Quote I suspect that if we hadn't spent the last decade or so raising a nation of pussies that this wouldn't be a problem. would you mind to explain a little more detailed what exactly you consider as a "nation of pussies"? which nation is in question here? dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,073 #14 April 28, 2004 > . . as a "nation of pussies"? which nation is in question here? France, of course. There is a minority of americans who get a kick out of slamming anything else - other countries, other religions, other races, other political parties. France is one of the more recent slam targets. Of course, those same people continue to use english words of french origin, fly on french airplanes, use french inventions and eat french food, so I wouldn't take them very seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #15 April 28, 2004 That's a well explaining reply! LMAO I will translate to my French better half. In fact, at first I thought he's been talking about the US dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #16 April 28, 2004 No Bill, not France. Quote the ENTIRE line next time. Nevermind, I'll do it for you. Quote I suspect that if we hadn't spent the last decade or so raising a nation of pussies that this wouldn't be a problem. I said 'we', since I am American, it stands to reason that I am including the United States. Though I think it applies to other nations as well. My point was that our society over the last decade or so seems to have softened. We're mostly content to be told what to do, how to do it, and where to do it. We no longer stand up to those who wrong us, and who threaten us. We've been told for ages that we're better off giving people what they want. We're a nation of people who would rather be uninvolved than to stand up for what they believe in, for what they deserve, or for what is right. That's enough fow now, I have to get back to work. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #17 April 28, 2004 Although I somewhat agree with you, that's not the reason the hijackings were successful. They were successful because of the history of hijackings and the reality of air travel. In the past, hijackings almost exclusively meant going to a different destination and then going home safely. The inaction of the victims on those planes was due to that knowledge and that if they did something, the planes might crash and kill them all. When the passengers on the 4th plane found out that the rules had changed, they took appropriate action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newsstand 0 #18 April 28, 2004 Quote ...When the passengers on the 4th plane found out that the rules had changed, they took appropriate action. No Kev that plane just happened to be loaded with a bunch of real men, one of those freak statistical things. "Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #19 April 28, 2004 Kevin, I wasn't talking about the 9/11 hijackings; just hijackings, and people, in general. While I wasn't speaking directly about them, you're right, they will have an influence on all future hijackings. I hope. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #20 April 28, 2004 So, on a plane of 200-250 passengers, when/if 5 or 6 terrorists try to take over the plane with 5 or 6 knives, they'll be out-knived by 200 other passengers "packing" (courtesy of the food service). Even if the terrorists were the only ones with knives, they aren't going to get the plane easily, the paradigm of "hi-jacking" a plane is smashed thanks to 9/11. Passengers will not sit idly by while someone tries to take over the plane.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #21 April 28, 2004 You're all missing my point. Fine there's now a pathetic collection of semi-weaponry on board - I don't care that much if they're there or not. What pissed me off was the fact that we have to go through such huge security measures to keep such benign things as nail clippers and nail files off the plane only to find the damn airline has brought worse on themselves. Make your damn minds up! You either want a "sterile" plane environment or you don't! If knives are OK, leave us alone. If they're not then don't bring them on the pissing plane yourself! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #22 April 28, 2004 Quote We're mostly content to be told what to do, how to do it, and where to do it. We no longer stand up to those who wrong us, and who threaten us. We've been told for ages that we're better off giving people what they want. We're a nation of people who would rather be uninvolved than to stand up for what they believe in, for what they deserve, or for what is right. what a bunch of nonsens and contradictions just in few sentences! at 1st, the US always did what they wanted to do. at 2nd, who told the US to do what??? at 3rd, the US neglect f. e. UN decisions. what a surprise: the US are a nation rather be uninvolved.... peacefull. who might believe that nonsens?? guy, put your feet back to earh. you cannot really believe the rest of this sentence ! probably, i really misread your post?? let me think again dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #23 April 28, 2004 Quote You're all missing my point. Fine there's now a pathetic collection of semi-weaponry on board - I don't care that much if they're there or not. What pissed me off was the fact that we have to go through such huge security measures to keep such benign things as nail clippers and nail files off the plane only to find the damn airline has brought worse on themselves. Make your damn minds up! You either want a "sterile" plane environment or you don't! If knives are OK, leave us alone. If they're not then don't bring them on the pissing plane yourself! Yeah, I did go on a bit of a tangent, but hey, like you said -- it was Air France. You shall not be able to make sense of it. So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CornishChris 5 #24 April 28, 2004 Vive La France. You currently have knives taken off you at security and I have had my boots removed and screened. When someone stabs another person in the neck with a pencil will we only be allowed crayons on board the plane? What about someone getting garrotted with a shoe lace - only flip-flops on board? Soon the day will come when we are all naked on the planes and I, for one, look forward to that day. My tangent. CJP Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #25 April 28, 2004 Quote Soon the day will come when we are all naked on the planes and I, for one, look forward to that day. My tangent. You'll change your mind when you get seated between the aisle and window seats, or any center seat for that matter, and you're surrounded by an 92 year-old on one side, and a 46 year-old, 320 lb. person on the other...have a nice flight... So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
