American Torture in Iraq

[mr2mk1g 10]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/tm_objectid=14195963&method=full&siteid=50143&headline=outrage-at-american-torture-of-iraqi-prisoners-name_page.html

I'm sure this isn't the first you've heard of this... so what are people's views?

[christelsabine 1]

This morning, i saw these pics in TV:

most disgusting to see a bright smiling young women....

thats repulsively
thats frightening

that's war???

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[Botellines 0]

I personaly would release those "brave soldiers" in the middle of Fallujah. Maybe then they wouldn´t be so daring.
I really hope this is all the scum you have in your army and not only the tip of the iceberg.

[Skyrad 0]

Absolutely no suprise at all. These are the idiots that were caught how many more aren't? A shame to their country, their flag, their uniform and humanity.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[JackC 0]

Not an isolated incident it would seem.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"so what are people's views?"
Any civilised human being will be apalled by this report.
"Brig Gen Kimmitt said: "These pictures may reflect the actions of individuals. But, by God, it doesn't reflect my army.
"If we can't hold ourselves up as an example of how to treat people with dignity and respect, we can't ask that other nations do that to our soldiers."

What he said. The coalition forces have just lost the moral high ground they have been working so hard to achieve.

These pictures will only give the remaining 'pockets of resistance' a reason to slug it out for longer, potentially costing more lives than any intel gathered by these techniques might have saved.

The report and pictures will also, I fear, provide motivation for further unrest and reprisals around the world. I hope Brigadier General Janis Karpinski can live with herself and the consequences of what she has done here.

To say I'm disappointed is puting it mildly.

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[Skyrad 0]

The American way?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[mr2mk1g 10]

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The American way?

There's no need to turn this into an America bashing thread. That's the quickest way to see an intelligent discussion over this disappear into a slinging match and locked thread.

This isn't the American way - it's the way at least 6 US soldiers adopted and we have yet to see how far up the chain of command such attitudes go. It would be naive to hope for a full, open enquiry but that is really what is required here.

[Botellines 0]

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The American way?

I think it is more the Iraky way. Unsurprisingly the Iraki insurgents are behaving in a much more human fashion than the american saviours. So far all the captured people are being treated properly but one Italian.
So what is the diference now beetwen Bush and Saddam Hussein? and beetwen Uday and Qusay Hussein and those soldiers?
Thinking of this, now it makes sense. That is why Bush tried to convence the UN tto pass a law so no american could be judge for crimes against humanity. Clever...

[mr2mk1g 10]

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So far all the captured people are being treated properly

Appart from the one's who have been dragged through the street and litterally ripped appart at the hands of a mob.

[Skyrad 0]

This isn't the American way - it's the way at least 6 US soldiers adopted and we have yet to see how far up the chain of command such attitudes go. It would be naive to hope for a full, open enquiry but that is really what is required here.

[Botellines 0]

Quote

Quote

So far all the captured people are being treated properly

Appart from the one's who have been dragged through the street and litterally ripped appart at the hands of a mob.

Yes, you are right. It just seems to me that it is more repulsive ()(if posible) to do stuff like that just to be funny or to have a superiority trip than out of rage.
I bet that this woman that appears in the pics pointing at the genitals of the Iraky guy wouldn´t be so cocky had they been both alone in a dark street.
It is that abuse of power what angers me. I think it is posible to be a soldier, to kill, and be a gentleman at the same time.

[rickjump1 0]

It's wrong,and the US Army does not condone this type of behavior. These people will be punished. Nobody in their right mind thinks this is funny.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[kiltboy 0]

I read that one of the soldiers charged is a prison officer in civilian life.

He could have been involved in training and setting up a proper prison regime. Educating the police in proper handling of prisoners etc.

Given the history of that jail with the Iraqi population you have to wonder what the hell they were doing?

David

[rehmwa 2]

CNN has not authenticated and american mirror has an agenda. So waiting on the confirmation.

If true, though, it's a terrible thing and the individuals should be severely punished.

If false, I wouldn't be surprised.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[PhillyKev 0]

reuters

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=2&u=/nm/20040430/ts_nm/iraq_pictures_dc

[mr2mk1g 10]

It's true enough. It's been all over the British media today, not just the Mirror - I simply posted that link as it has the photo's in question on the site. The Prime Minister has issued a statement about the photographs: http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12956,1207045,00.html

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"So waiting on the confirmation."
Very wise, but its looking unpleasantly true.
The Beeb, and the Independent are both carrying it.
They are pretty reliable sources normally.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3672901.stm
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=516637
And our government has commented.
"Mr Blair's official spokesman said: "The US army spokesman has said this morning that he is appalled, that those responsible have let their fellow soldiers down, and those are views that we would associate the UK Government with."
He added: "This is not representative of the 150,000 soldiers that are in Iraq, and they should not judge the actions of the coalition as a whole on the actions of a few. "
My emphasis to try and keep it all civil.

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[christelsabine 1]

In no way it's a good idea to pull early conclusions based on fragment infos.

this could degenerate into something very ugly.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[markd_nscr986 0]

Would it be fair to compare isolated instances of prisoner abuse by US troops in Iraq with say a policy of torture implemented by the SAS upon prisoners in Ulster ?

Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004

[mr2mk1g 10]

yup - torture is torture.

[Botellines 0]

Sorry, we don´t know if this is isolated. My guess is that this is only the tip of the iceberg.

But yes, Torture is Torture, as it was when a group or militars tortured people from ETA to obtain information about the next terrorist attack with the aprovement of the government.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"Would it be fair to compare isolated instances of prisoner abuse by US troops in Iraq with say a policy of torture implemented by the SAS upon prisoners in Ulster ? "

It might be fair, human rights abuses occur all over, especially in a time of armed struggle. However its unlikely that the SAS would allow themselves to be photographed with a gleeful expression on their faces, flashing a thumbs up etc.
Far less let the photographs fall into the hands of a sensationalist media, while trying to get the prisoners' comrades to surrender peacefully.

What were these fuckwits thinking about?

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[rehmwa 2]

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My guess is that this is only the tip of the iceberg.

So are you saying that human kind is evil by nature?
Or just coalition military members?
Or just American soldiers?

If it's just coalition soldiers, do you also include the Spanish support that was in it for the first part?

It must suck to assume that people are evil.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Tonto 1]

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It must suck to assume that people are evil.

People are evil. Or opportunistic.

Those that don't fall into one of those 2 groups are rare.

t

It's the year of the Pig.