School Zero Weapon Tolerance

[JohnRich 4]

In the news:

A Naples, Florida, honor-roll high school senior drove her mom's car to school. Police conducted a weapons sweep of the school parking lot, and a police dog alerted on the student's car. She was asked to open up the vehicle, and police found the mom's stun gun inside. The stun gun violates the school's zero tolerance policy for weapons on its property.

The student will be expelled from school and will not receive her diploma.

Full Story

Thank goodness - another Columbine shooting nipped in the bud!

[JJohnson 0]

Good thing we got rules in place to protect us from......everything. Whatever happened to common sense? Is it really a lost art?

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[skydyvr 0]

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Whatever happened to common sense? Is it really a lost art?

Yes it is, and you can thank your local liberal powered "school administrators" for their major contribution toward expediting this nation down the path of total fucktardum.

. . =(_8^(1)

[lawrocket 3]

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Whatever happened to common sense? Is it really a lost art?

Yep. A few bad apples start chaos on a school grounds (of course, a couple of well armed people could have stopped it quickly) and rules for "zero tolerance" are made.

No exceptions for common sense or intent. Strict liability.

Thanks, lawmakers.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Shotgun 1]

According to this story (below), it sounds like they came up with a reasonable solution. It still sucks for the girl, but if you're going to have a "Zero Tolerance" policy, it will not work unless it is truly ZERO tolerance. Forgetting that a weapon is in your car (or even a borrowed car) is not really an excuse, and it wouldn't be fair to give preferential treatment to an honor-roll student over any other student (IMHO).

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Senior in trouble for having stun gun can go to prom
By RAY PARKER, brparker@naplesnews.com
May 1, 2004

Amanda Conroy expects to dance in her Lily Ruben prom dress tonight inside the Hyatt Regency Coconut Point Resort & Spa in Estero.

This week has been an emotional roller-coaster ride for the Barron Collier High senior.

On Tuesday, school officials expelled her after her mom's stun gun was discovered inside the vehicle she was driving during a random search.

On Thursday, Amanda's attorney, Nelson Faerber Jr., was arrested.

But on Friday, after meeting with school officials, the 18-year-old learned she will be allowed to attend her prom.

"It's just been incredible and wonderful to know there are decent people out in the world and how much they care," said Amanda's mother, Darlene Conroy.

The teen's car had been on the fritz, so she used her mother's Dodge Durango, which contained the stun gun. Police discovered it and, under the district's zero-tolerance policy for weapons, Amanda was expelled.

But her expulsion won't begin until Monday.

"Because there was a misunderstanding," Assistant Superintendent Michele Lugo said. "The decision was to make the last three days an appeal, and not a suspended period, so she'll be allowed to go to school activities until Monday."

As an alternative to expulsion, Amanda will enter the district's Phoenix Alternative Program for the final three weeks of her senior year.

But the honor roll student will be allowed to take the final exam of her advanced placement psychology class at her high school.

Shannon McFee, the Conroy's replacement attorney, said school officials should be commended for speeding up the normally slow process.

"So we could come up with a solution that would not ruin this young woman's senior year in high school," he said.

After completing her final work at Phoenix, the teen will be allowed to march with her friends to the sounds of "Pomp and Circumstance."

"She's going to the prom and she's graduating from high school," Darlene Conroy said. "It's been the biggest roller-coaster week of my life."

(From http://www.naplesnews.com/npdn/news/article/0,2071,NPDN_14940_2851416,00.html)

[JohnRich 4]

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if you're going to have a "Zero Tolerance" policy, it will not work unless it is truly ZERO tolerance. Forgetting that a weapon is in your car (or even a borrowed car) is not really an excuse, and it wouldn't be fair to give preferential treatment to an honor-roll student over any other student (IMHO).

The problem is not how they applied the policy in this circumstance, but rather that they have such a policy in the first place. Yes, there need to be punishements for kids who bring weapons to school, but they should differentiate between incidents like this one, and a gang member who carries a gun. Treating everyone like a potential murderer is absolutely ridiculous.

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On Thursday, Amanda's attorney, Nelson Faerber Jr., was arrested.

I sure wish they had told us why... Maybe he came to the school with an automatic high-capacity mechanical pencil.

[b1jercat 0]

SO what's up with this ramdom search shit?

[Jib 0]

It's absolutely amazing to me that the adminstrative fuckwads wonder why there are weapons at school... Oh my god the Breakfast Club? I remember a guy way old to be in junior high school let alone my class taking cheap shots on people when he got the chance. That was almost 20 years ago. (Fuck I feel old) Has anything changed? Nope... head is still firmly up his ass!!! A stun gun?

--------------------------------------------------
the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[WFFC 1]

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...but they should differentiate between incidents like this one, and a gang member who carries a gun...

Just because a kid doesn't wear the colors in school doesn't mean that they're not part of a gang. It's very possible that they're flying under the radar.
Incidents
My 2 cents...Who is to blame for the stun gun in the vehicle? Mom is. Mom knew the daughter was having car issues. Mom put the stun gun in the vehicle. Mom probably follows the news and knows that most schools don't tolerate guns/weapons on school grounds. Mom allowed the daughter to borrow the vehicle knowing full well that the stun gun was in there. Daughter pays the consequences for Mom's mistake. Sad for the daughter? Yes. The school seems to be making arrangements to let the kid continue and graduate.
Should the kid be punished for Mom's screw up? Yes. Zero tolerance means Zero tolerance.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

I've long believed that police dogs "alert" on whatever the police tell the police dogs to "alert" on.

Someone tell me how the hell a stun gun causes a police dog to sense a weapon! Does it detect the specific scent of particular plastic they use in stun guns?

What a load of horseshit. The authorities in such a case should be fucking hanged in public as usurpers of the civil rights of the public.
-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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...but they should differentiate between incidents like this one, and a gang member who carries a gun...

Just because a kid doesn't wear the colors in school doesn't mean that they're not part of a gang. It's very possible that they're flying under the radar.

And if "flying under the radar" amounts to a) not wearing gang colors in school and b) not committing crimes in school, what exactly is your gripe?

Oh, gee, what ever are we going to do? We might have to *gasp* -- wait until someone actually commits a fucking CRIME in order to treat them like a criminal!

There is no law against being a gang member. The problem is not membership in a gang, it is doing violent acts, for which gangs are known. But if a person is a gang member in his off time, and behaves himself at school like anyone else, it should not matter to the school what affiliation he has. We DO have a right to freedom of association.

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Incidents
My 2 cents...Who is to blame for the stun gun in the vehicle? Mom is. Mom knew the daughter was having car issues. Mom put the stun gun in the vehicle. Mom probably follows the news and knows that most schools don't tolerate guns/weapons on school grounds. Mom allowed the daughter to borrow the vehicle knowing full well that the stun gun was in there. Daughter pays the consequences for Mom's mistake. Sad for the daughter? Yes. The school seems to be making arrangements to let the kid continue and graduate.
Should the kid be punished for Mom's screw up? Yes. Zero tolerance means Zero tolerance.

Since the school is apparently accomodating the girl, allowing her to attend the prom, etc. (it did not say they were letting her graduate), that is a tacit admission that they do not fear that she is dangerous. That itself is an admission that the zero tolerance rule is singling out the girl for punishment erroneously.

If such a rule actually snagged a truly bad person who was truly a threat, there would be a sigh of relief on the part of administrators, i.e. "Whew, we caught the person with a weapon before they hurt someone." In this case, they still want her to be allowed to go to prom, etc. That means they don't really want her nailed by the rule, and that means the rule is fucked up if no administrative discretion is possible or permitted.
-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[kallend 2,027]

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Whatever happened to common sense? Is it really a lost art?

Yes it is, and you can thank your local liberal powered "school administrators" for their major contribution toward expediting this nation down the path of total fucktardum.

Wrong. School policies come from school boards, elected by their local communities. If the community doesn't like what the board does, it can throw the bums out at the next election.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JJohnson 0]

Yeah that part stuck out at me as well.....I figured maybe batteries were considered a weapon which of course bans all flashlights (Don't want anyone shedding light on anything), vibrators (overstimulation), laser pointers (don't want someone adjusting the intensity to kill).....

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[JJohnson 0]

You would be very suprised at the shit that goes on in a school board and the control that administration has over them. My mother has worked at a grade school for the last 25 years. Yes the prinicpal or superintendent can and do get voted out. But by and large most of the school board becomes a local popularity contest.
They have had prinicipals talking certain friendly people onto the the board, try to force people off the board, the board vote staff out for some really stupid reasons...Some of the bullshit my mother has told me about scares me.

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[PhillyKev 0]

That's why paying attention to the small local races is so important.

A) They affect you more directly on a day to day basis.
B) They usually don't have many people following them or voting in them so your vote counts all that much more.

[skydyvr 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Whatever happened to common sense? Is it really a lost art?

Yes it is, and you can thank your local liberal powered "school administrators" for their major contribution toward expediting this nation down the path of total fucktardum.

Wrong. School policies come from school boards, elected by their local communities. If the community doesn't like what the board does, it can throw the bums out at the next election.

Education today is a real sweet deal for the left Prof . . . the lefties educate the rank and file, then the rank and file elect and re-elect lefties simply becasue they don't know any better.

The taking over of our educational systems by the left is the smartest move they ever made.

. . =(_8^(1)

[kallend 2,027]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Whatever happened to common sense? Is it really a lost art?

Yes it is, and you can thank your local liberal powered "school administrators" for their major contribution toward expediting this nation down the path of total fucktardum.

Wrong. School policies come from school boards, elected by their local communities. If the community doesn't like what the board does, it can throw the bums out at the next election.

Education today is a real sweet deal for the left Prof . . . the lefties educate the rank and file, then the rank and file elect and re-elect lefties simply becasue they don't know any better.

The taking over of our educational systems by the left is the smartest move they ever made.

Well, if the right devoted a bit more time and effort to education, they could take over instead.

Doesn't alter the fact that school boards elected by the voters in local communities put these policies in place. Don't like school policies? Vote the bums out.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[WFFC 1]

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(it did not say they were letting her graduate)

The implication was in the article "As an alternative to expulsion, Amanda will enter the district's Phoenix Alternative Program for the final three weeks of her senior year."

[Nightingale 0]

Her mother should have been more responsible with her weapon.

That said, I think the school overreacted, but it seems as though the situation has been resolved to everyone's satisfaction.

[Kennedy 0]

There's no such thing as over-reacting. Zero tolerance means zero lee-way and zero circumstances. That's the problem with zero tolerance. It requires zero intelligence. This girl was lucky. I've read too many articles reporting that AP honors students, etc are being expelled for ridiculous shit.

And someone please remind me what a police dog would "alert" on with a stun gun.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[JohnRich 4]

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Should the kid be punished for Mom's screw up? Yes. Zero tolerance means Zero tolerance.

So you approve of zero tolerance policies, which treat every offense, regardless of type of weapon, circumstances, or motives, as if they were actual attempts to harm others.

Wonderful. Big Brother has some job openings for you.

[JohnRich 4]

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And someone please remind me what a police dog would "alert" on with a stun gun.

I'm wondering about that too. Presumably these devices have some kind of cartridge in them, like those used in a nail gun, to shoot the darts. I don't know if a trained dog can sniff such explosives in a contained cartridge.

I've had two experiences with drug-sniffing dogs in my life.

#1 was in the Marines, when a dog was run through the barracks, and he alerted on my wall locker. But not on the lockers of those whom I knew to be using drugs. After a detailed search of my locker, including squeezing out my toothpaste and dumping out my laundry detergent, they found nothing. Oh, but they did find some of Mom's christmas cookies, which may have been what the dog was after in the first place.

#2 was at a traffic stop, when I refused to volunatarily allow my car to be searched. A drug dog was brought in, which found nothing. Cops went away disappointed.

I have no faith in the infallibility of police dogs, or those who apply them. Then can invent a claim that the dog "alerted", giving them probable cause to search. And no one can cross-examine the dog in court to find out if it was all a big lie.

[Kennedy 0]

OK, here's a question:

What type of stun gun was this? I don't remember reading anything specific about it. Some stun guns fire two prongs attached to wires, others require contact. Which was in the Durango?

edit: the story John linked to shows a stun gun that fires two prongs, but is that they type of gun found in the Durango, or just a file photo for the website?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[DrunkMonkey 0]

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Big Brother has some job openings for you.

...And they pay quite well! I know.

[kelpdiver 2]

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The taking over of our educational systems by the left is the smartest move they ever made.

Well, if the right devoted a bit more time and effort to education, they could take over instead.

Doesn't alter the fact that school boards elected by the voters in local communities put these policies in place. Don't like school policies? Vote the bums out.

This is in fact the recent change - the Christian Right has found it can get a voice much greater than its true size by focusing attention on the local school boards.

How many of us really track issues lower than the level of city mayor? Or have any idea if they should reelect a judge? You don't have to garner that many people to grab control at the school board.

I see zero weapons tolerance as the perfect melding of leftists and religious nuts. They can also work well together to excise from books the mention of historical and scientific facts they don't like.