Religion based intolerance...

[PhillyKev 0]

Just walked through the gay pride festival on my way home from work. All the streets around my house are closed off. There are food vendors, bands, people selling balloons. Basically a mass of people walking around. I'm not gay, and if I didn't know that it was the gay pride festival, with the exception of a bunch of rainbow flags around, I wouldn't have any idea that any of the other people were either.

But, for some reason, a large group of whackos we're standing in a group holding up signs that homosexuals are sinners, god is going to smite them, and they are destroying America.

All that was going on was a bunch of people at an outdoor festival/bbq. What exactly do these religious whackos have a problem with? Why go to something where there will be a large conglomeration of gays, doing nothing other than listening to music and eating food, and protest against them? The only thing going on that had anything to do with anyone's sexuality was the actions and signs of these protestors. It boggles the mind.

[pajarito 0]

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Just walked through the gay pride festival on my way home from work. All the streets around my house are closed off. There are food vendors, bands, people selling balloons. Basically a mass of people walking around. I'm not gay, and if I didn't know that it was the gay pride festival, with the exception of a bunch of rainbow flags around, I wouldn't have any idea that any of the other people were either.
But, for some reason, a large group of whackos we're standing in a group holding up signs that homosexuals are sinners, god is going to smite them, and they are destroying America.
All that was going on was a bunch of people at an outdoor festival/bbq. What exactly do these religious whackos have a problem with? Why go to something where there will be a large conglomeration of gays, doing nothing other than listening to music and eating food, and protest against them? The only thing going on that had anything to do with anyone's sexuality was the actions and signs of these protestors. It boggles the mind.

Why do you refer to the religious as “whackos” when they are doing the exact same thing as the “gay pride” marchers? That is NOT just an “outdoor festival” as you put it. The “gay pride” marchers are demonstrating their beliefs just as the religious demonstrators are. The “gay pride” marchers are trying to normalize their way of life in our culture by bringing out their sexual beliefs and shoving it down everyone’s throats. In short, they are pushing their political agenda. I doubt that anybody, referring to the heterosexual populace, asked or wanted to know who was homosexual and who was not. The “gay pride” people are the ones that brought up the topic of the demonstration in the first place. In any case, below are quotations from the Bible demonstrating why the religious persons at the rally have a problem with homosexuality. I know you think that has no real basis. This is just in answer to your question about what they have a problem with. Again, the religious demonstration probably would not have occurred at all if it weren’t for the blatant unsolicited demonstration of the gay marchers. I don’t see all the heterosexuals in Philadelphia marching around shouting their sexual preference.

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV)

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind it is abomination." Leviticus 18:22 (KJV)

"But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly." Genesis 13:13

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Leviticus 20:13

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator – who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed, and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. Romans 1:24-32

[rickjump1 0]

I read this in the New Orleans Times-Picayune this morning. Quote- In Seattle, about 20,000 people attended the "Mayday for Marriage" worship service and rally organized by conservative Christian churches around the state in support of heterosexual marriage. Between 2,500 and 3,000 gay-rights protesters waved signs and chanted, "Bigots go home!"....... Does this boggle your mind too?

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Why go to something where there will be a large conglomeration of gays, doing nothing other than listening to music and eating food, and protest against them? The only thing going on that had anything to do with anyone's sexuality was the actions and signs of these protestors. It boggles the mind.

Well, you've struck upon the major fuck-up/flaw in religion: It's not enough for these people to live their lives in accordance with their relgious dogma and try to get themselves into eternal paradise: they take it upon themselves to worry for every other person's sin and soul, regardless of whether those people want their concern. It is truly the height of arrogance. Maybe I've considered believing in your religion, and made an informed decision to not believe in it! If that is the case (and it is) then you are arrogant beyond words to still attempt to foist your beliefs on me, telling me that I'm unknowingly condemning myself to hell. Ever have an annoying person come up to you while you're doing a job, and start showing you, "No, here's how you gotta do that, no wait, do it this way..."? Religious proselytizing is like doing that but a million times more arrogant.

I think it would be fun to taunt the protesters, saying something like, "Your god doesn't even exist; you're wasting your lives; you have no soul; you'll be just so much dead meat when you die; you're fucking weak and pathetic" and then leave knowing that there's a good chance they'll go home that day all unsure of themselves and full of self-doubt. Assholes like that deserve to be plagued with doubt, just for being arrogant and proud and condemnatory of others.
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Tink1717 2]

It just really frost your balls that other people don't live by the dogma of your religion doesn't it?

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Why do you refer to the religious as “whackos” when they are doing the exact same thing as the “gay pride” marchers? That is NOT just an “outdoor festival” as you put it. The “gay pride” marchers are demonstrating their beliefs just as the religious demonstrators are.

Are the gay pride people carrying signs saying, "If you're not gay, you're going to hell?" or "God will smite you unless you're gay"?

I didn't think so.

That makes the two groups hardly the same.

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In any case, below are quotations from the Bible demonstrating why the religious persons at the rally have a problem with homosexuality.

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV)

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind it is abomination." Leviticus 18:22 (KJV)

"But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly." Genesis 13:13

Heh, which version of the bible has this stuff? How do you know that it was in the original bible, and not added into one of the many versions that were written centuries later?

Are all bibles written with such abysmal grammar? Like this: ""Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind it is abomination." Leviticus 18:22 (KJV)

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"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Leviticus 20:13

OHKAY now. If the bible is so much the definitive authority on how we should treat homosexuals, why are you not advocating PUTTING THEM TO DEATH for being gay? The very quote you cited says that they are to be put to death! Are you in disagreement with the course of action laid out by the very bible you quote?!

This kind of thing is why I think the bible is a great evil. It was not written by god's own hand; it was written by MEN, flawed like any other men. And it has been passed down so many times and rewritten, reinterpreted, revised, that NO ONE can know how true to god's original supposed word it really is. Even between different Christian sects, there are differences from one's bible to the other's. Who the hell knows which one is authoritative? And even if they all agreed word-for-word, there would still be the issue of whether they were true to the thousands-of-years-ago text.

To me, the bible is worse than worthless. It poisons minds, and prevents mankind from living in peace with each other.
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[rickjump1 0]

It was 2500 to 3000 gay rights people that were trying to break up a peaceful religious rally in Seattle. Let put it this way, do you support traditional marriage between a man and a woman?

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[pajarito 0]

Again, I’m not trying to push anything down your throat. I wouldn’t begin to try and convince you of what you’re so adamantly set against. It’s curious how it riles you up so badly, though, at even the hint of the topic of Christianity. However, all of your venom and Christian bashing doesn’t take away from the fact that there’s nothing wrong with what the Christian demonstrators were doing. It is, in fact, the same as what the homosexual marchers were doing. Both are pushing an agenda whether you agree with them or not. PhillyKev said he didn’t understand the Christian’s point. I tried to explain it to him. Although, I’m pretty sure he already knew. He just wanted to stir the pot some more.

[pajarito 0]

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It just really frost your balls that other people don't live by the dogma of your religion doesn't it?

Not at all. It's absolutely fine with me if you don't believe the way I do. That part isn't up to me.

[pajarito 0]

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It's not enough for these people to live their lives in accordance with their relgious dogma and try to get themselves into eternal paradise: they take it upon themselves to worry for every other person's sin and soul, regardless of whether those people want their concern. It is truly the height of arrogance

It’s not enough for these people (homosexuals) to live their lives privately in accordance with their own sexuality. They take it upon themselves to push what should stay in their bedroom and conscious onto everyone whether they care or not in order to push their political agenda. It is truly the height of arrogance.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Again, I’m not trying to push anything down your throat. I wouldn’t begin to try and convince you of what you’re so adamantly set against. It’s curious how it riles you up so badly, though, at even the hint of the topic of Christianity.

Yes, I admit it does rile me to a certain extent. That's based in part on the fact that the harm I see religion doing goes well beyond anyone harassing me alone with their dogma. That I can handle. It's when religions as a group do major heinous things around the world in the name of their "god" that a bigger, more "rile-able" problem reveals itself. Christians living their lives with their religions are not a problem to me, though I think it is a life lived on the basis of untruth and fairy tale and myth. (That makes me wish those people would live a more rational-thought/logic-based life.) But when Christians (or any religious people) hold as part of their beliefs the idea that they must extend their reach, convert unbelievers, fix the world to match their religion's view, that's when I get riled.

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However, all of your venom and Christian bashing doesn’t take away from the fact that there’s nothing wrong with what the Christian demonstrators were doing. It is, in fact, the same as what the homosexual marchers were doing. Both are pushing an agenda whether you agree with them or not.

No, I disagree. Imagine a world in which the Christians kept to themselves, knowing about the existence of homosexuals but leaving them alone to do what they want to do consentually. The gays would not come out picking a fight with people who were not seeking to deny them rights, or condemn their "lifestyles." However, the Christians DO come out unprovoked to protest and condemn the gay people, who as a general rule do not make attempts to "turn" Christians into pro-gay people. They just want to be left the hell alone. It's only because they KNOW that Christians are actively trying to turn the public against gays, and trying to get gays to "go straight" that they protest the Christains' presence in a venue where they're holding anti-gay discourse.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[chuteless 1]

"it just boggles the mind"


What MIND???

Bill Cole

[pajarito 0]

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That makes me wish those people would live a more rational-thought/logic-based life.

That’s quite a leap to make the statement that all religious people aren’t rational or logical. Anyway…that’s your belief. I’d hold myself in standing with you any day.

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They just want to be left the hell alone.

By participating in a huge rally with signs and banners.

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It's only because they KNOW that Christians are actively trying to turn the public against gays, and trying to get gays to "go straight" that they protest the Christains' presence in a venue where they're holding anti-gay discourse.

Christians aren’t trying to turn the public against homosexuals. That is a misconception. They’re trying to turn the public against homosexuality. We DO think it is an immoral lifestyle and speak out against it but that in no way means that we dislike the homosexual person.

[jakee 1,497]

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Christians aren’t trying to turn the public against homosexuals. That is a misconception. They’re trying to turn the public against homosexuality. We DO think it is an immoral lifestyle and speak out against it but that in no way means that we dislike the homosexual person.

Isn't that like saying we don't like muggings but we'll buy the mugger a beer any day?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[pajarito 0]

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Isn't that like saying we don't like muggings but we'll buy the mugger a beer any day?

Not quite. For all you who are offended by "God talk", cover your ears/eyes. In reference to your question, it's all about sin. In God's eyes, homosexuality is a sin just like what a mugger does is a sin. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love that person. He just doesn't love the person's sin. Whatever it is. Here is a good explanation I found concerning sin.

http://www.billygraham.org/print.asp?i=534&t=qna

Are all sins the same in God's eyes?
It is always difficult and dangerous to attempt to list sins according to their degree of seriousness. In one sense, all sins are equal in that they all separate us from God. The Bible's statement, "For the wages of sin is death ..." (Romans 6:23), applies to all sin, whether of thought, word, or deed.

At the same time, it seems obvious that some sins are worse than others in both motivation and effects and should be judged accordingly. Stealing a loaf of bread is vastly different than exterminating a million people. Sins may also differ at their root. Theologians have sought for centuries to determine what the essence of sin is. Some have chosen sensuality, others selfishness and still others pride or unbelief. In the Old Testament, God applied different penalties to different sins, suggesting variations in the seriousness of some sins. A thief paid restitution; an occult practitioner was cut off from Israel; one who committed adultery or a homosexual act or cursed his parents was put to death (see Exodus, chapter 22 and Leviticus, chapter 20).

In the New Testament Jesus said it would be more bearable on the day of judgment for Sodom than for Capernaum because of Capernaum's unbelief and refusal to repent at His miracles (Matthew 11:23-24). The sins of Sodom were identified in Ezekiel 16:21 as arrogance, gluttony, indifference to the poor and needy, haughtiness, and "detestable things." When Jesus spoke of his second coming and judgment, he warned that among those deserving punishment some would "be beaten with many blows" and others "with few blows" (Luke 12:47-48). He also reserved His most fierce denunciations for the pride and unbelief of the religious leaders, not the sexually immoral (Matthew 23:13-36).

However, remember that whether our sins be relatively small or great, they will place us in hell apart from God's grace. The good news is that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins and the sins of the whole world at the Cross. If we will repent and turn to Jesus in faith, our sins will be forgiven, and we will receive the gift of eternal life. See Steps to Peace With God.

[vmsfreaky1 0]

Just dont parade your sexuality? is that what your saying? so you never hold your girlfriends hand walking down the street? give her a kiss goodbye? Dont you be parading your sexuality! gotta keep that in the bedroom you know.

[skydyvr 0]

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The gays would not come out picking a fight with people who were not seeking to deny them rights, or condemn their "lifestyles." However, the Christians DO come out unprovoked to protest and condemn the gay people, who as a general rule do not make attempts to "turn" Christians into pro-gay people. They just want to be left the hell alone.

Gay rights groups are working hard on many fronts to tell MY kids that homosexuality is perfectlly normal and acceptable. Your notion that they "just want to be left the hell alone" is not just false -- it's laughable.

. . =(_8^(1)

[pajarito 0]

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Just dont parade your sexuality? is that what your saying? so you never hold your girlfriends hand walking down the street? give her a kiss goodbye? Dont you be parading your sexuality! gotta keep that in the bedroom you know.

We're talking about a "gay pride" parade/celebration in the streets of Philadelphia. Hundreds of people walking around with banners and signs, giving public speaches, and pushing their political agenda in a very big way. Not just two guys walking down the street holding hands. Keep it in context.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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In God's eyes, homosexuality is a sin just like what a mugger does is a sin. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love that person. He just doesn't love the person's sin. Whatever it is.

This outlines one of my major problems with god, and why I cannot and will not believe in "him."

Any god that made all things made the sin, the sinner, and all potential for good or bad, righteousness or sin. So this god made humans, made our sexuality, made any and every possible permutation of how a human being can be, live and behave. And then he wires some people to be heterosexual, and some to be homosexual, and then says that you'll be hellbound if you act homosexually. That's really fuckin' cheap. A god who does that to the people he supposedly "loves" is a real fucktard. It's like saying that only people over 5'8" will be allowed into heaven, and then saying he has nothing against people who are short; all they have to do is act tall. All gay people have to do is deny their very nature, is that it? Gee what a wonderful god this must be.

And if you deny that homosexual people are wired that way, just ask yourself who would choose an ostracized, ill-accepted, denigrated, persecuted lifestyle if they had the choice of being the other way. Believing that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice is beyond question, ignorant.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

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[PhillyKev 0]

Your entire first post has absolutely no relevance.

A) It was not a march. It was a block party. There was no parade or anything of the sort.
B) They weren't trying to shove their sexual beliefs as you put it down anyone's throat. As I stated, if you didn't see the rainbow flags and protestors, you wouldn't even know anyone there was gay.
C) There weren't any political speeches, banners, signs, etc. There were a bunch of people walking around, listenting to blues bands and eating cheese steaks and bbq.

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I don’t see all the heterosexuals in Philadelphia marching around shouting their sexual preference.

I didn't see any gays doing anything of the sort. The only people I saw walking around shouting their sexual preference were the religious protestors. And even if the gays were marching around shouting their sexual preference, that's a tad different than marching around, condemning someone else's sexual preference.

You're making a whole lot of claims about what the gays were doing and what their agenda was and about how they marched around. And they're all wrong. You weren't there. You're making a bunch of biased assumptions.

Oh, and btw, I had it wrong. It wasn't the gay pride festival. It was the Equality Forum block party.

[pajarito 0]

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Any god that made all things made the sin, the sinner, and all potential for good or bad, righteousness or sin. So this god made humans, made our sexuality, made any and every possible permutation of how a human being can be, live and behave. And then he wires some people to be heterosexual, and some to be homosexual, and then says that you'll be hellbound if you act homosexually. That's really fuckin' cheap. A god who does that to the people he supposedly "loves" is a real fucktard.

God created people with the intention of having a loving personal relationship with them. He created people with “free will.” Otherwise, even in our limited understanding of the way of things, what would really be the point? If he created all people with only the capacity to love him unconditionally, that would be like dealing a hand in poker exactly how you wanted to instead of randomly after a shuffle. There’s nothing without free will. Otherwise, you’d just have created a bunch of robots. Therefore, there is sin in the world, however you choose to describe it, but people perpetuate it. Not God. People sin against God because of their nature. There are boundaries, limits, laws, or parameters which we must all operate within in everything we do. If you believed that there should be no limits or laws on anything you do, then you believe we can all operate in complete chaos. That’s illogical.

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It's like saying that only people over 5'8" will be allowed into heaven, and then saying he has nothing against people who are short; all they have to do is act tall. All gay people have to do is deny their very nature, is that it? Gee what a wonderful god this must be.

You inferred in a previous post that religious people were illogical thinkers; however, I truly fail to see the logic in your comparison above. Physical characteristics are traits which we cannot control. The way you behave is very much controllable. My natural instincts tell me everyday to cheat on my wife but I choose not to.

Side note: Your profile lists you as a proofreader. Within your argument, you use verbiage such as “fuckin’ cheap” and “real fucktard” to give strength to your position. Wouldn’t you correct that in the papers you proofread? I would.

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And if you deny that homosexual people are wired that way, just ask yourself who would choose an ostracized, ill-accepted, denigrated, persecuted lifestyle if they had the choice of being the other way. Believing that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice is beyond question, ignorant.

You’re making an assumption by saying, “if you deny that homosexual people are wired that way.” I don’t deny that homosexuals might not be born with the tendency or predisposition to be attracted to members of the same sex. That all goes back to what was said in Romans 1:24-32, “Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts.” I think it can also be a product of ones environment but I also think that it, in some cases, might be biological. I can tell you honestly that I was born with the predisposition to be an adulterer. I am happily married to the woman I love but I still have very strong drives to not be faithful. I choose not to cheat on my wife, however, and choose to keep the sanctity of my marriage in place. If I followed my instincts, I would have multiple partners and not be monogamous.

[pajarito 0]

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Oh, and btw, I had it wrong. It wasn't the gay pride festival. It was the Equality Forum block party.

Whatever you want to call it, dude. You’re right. I wasn’t there and am only going by what you tell me. However, your statement above makes it pretty clear that it was large, public, and had a political agenda. It wasn’t just a group of neighbors having a “block hamburger cookout.”

[storm1977 0]

Kev what are you talking about????

They were in Public, as a large group.... streetsw were blocked off as you stated and also they had rainbow flags ect....

Sounds to me that they were looking to be noticed, otherwise they would have gone to a park or somewhere not needing of a public permit to get streets closed down.

My guess is the religious group wasn't out looking for gay group BBQ's and stumbled along this one. So, I also guess there were fliers hanging up or advertizing in some way Right?????

Comon dude ... you don't agree with religion so what...
I don't agree with homos no big deal!!!!!
Neither side was doing anything wrong. The Gays were making a PUBLIC statement and so were the Christians .... Let it go .

Chris

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[PhillyKev 0]

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However, your statement above makes it pretty clear that it was large, public, and had a political agenda. It wasn’t just a group of neighbors having a “block hamburger cookout.”

Being gay is not a political agenda. The agenda was to get together with like minded people to enjoy some music, food and the weather.

If a church has a picnic in the park, does that mean there's a political agenda? It's large, public and sponsored by an organization. The point I'm making is that this was NOT in any way shape or form a political rally or event. It was politicized by people who went out of their way to seek it out and protest its occurence based solely on the matter of it being attended by gays. And you are continuing the politicizing of it, even though I've explained several times that there was no political agenda.

Again, you are making assumptions based on the fact that a function was attended by gays and sponsored by a gay organization (geee, how shocking, a gay organization sponsoring an event for gays). Who was going to sponsor it, Sears?

[pajarito 0]

If that's truly what you believe, I won't argue it. It's just way beyond my level of comprehension to believe that there wasn't an agenda and that it was just a bunch of homosexuals or "like minded individuals" enjoying each other's company for the world to see.