JohnRich 4 #1 May 6, 2004 Paraphrased from the news: Police swim rule dropped for minority recruitmentThe North Miami police department has dropped a requirement that new police officers be proficient swimmers. They say that the requirement is unnecessary, and that the prerequisite discourages Blacks and Haitians from signing up, because very few of them can swim. It is hoped that eliminating the swimming requirement will bring an increase in Black and Haitian police officers. The requirement was for police recruits to swim 150 feet without stopping while wearing all clothing except shoes. Full Story Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #2 May 6, 2004 I don't know about Miami, but here in Los Angeles, a larger percentage of white and asian folks can swim. The reason is that other minority groups have large population groups in the inner city, where access to swimming pools is limited. It isn't that they can't swim, it's just that they don't have as much of an opportunity to learn. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #3 May 6, 2004 QuoteThe North Miami police department has dropped a requirement that new police officers be proficient swimmers. OK QuoteThey say that the requirement is unnecessary This if true I could back. Quoteand that the prerequisite discourages Blacks and Haitians from signing up, because very few of them can swim. It is hoped that eliminating the swimming requirement will bring an increase in Black and Haitian police officers. If this is the reason that stupid as hell... What is learning to swim that hard? If you want it bad enough you can learn. Its a SKILL that can be learned"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #4 May 6, 2004 QuoteWhat is learning to swim that hard? If you want it bad enough you can learn. Its a SKILL that can be learned Of couse they can learn, but they haven't because they haven't needed to and didn't have access to a pool to learn. Why make them learn to do a job that doesn't require the skill. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #5 May 6, 2004 So it seems the days when all a fugitive has to do is cross a stream to get the dog patrol off his scent have returned. (My friends and I joke: "White men can't jump, but black men don't" because of the extremely low number of skydivers from ethnic minorities). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightjumps 1 #6 May 6, 2004 If you want police officers, hire someone who can run with 40 pounds of crap pulling their pants down.. If you need swimmers, hire Cubans - They got no problems with that whole 90 miles of ocean thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #7 May 6, 2004 Quote Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What is learning to swim that hard? If you want it bad enough you can learn. Its a SKILL that can be learned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Of couse they can learn, but they haven't because they haven't needed to and didn't have access to a pool to learn. Why make them learn to do a job that doesn't require the skill. did you read my whole post? Cause Im thinking you didn't I repost it here for you...please try to read it. Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The North Miami police department has dropped a requirement that new police officers be proficient swimmers. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- OK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- They say that the requirement is unnecessary -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This if true I could back. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- and that the prerequisite discourages Blacks and Haitians from signing up, because very few of them can swim. It is hoped that eliminating the swimming requirement will bring an increase in Black and Haitian police officers. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If this is the reason thats stupid as hell... What is learning to swim that hard? If you want it bad enough you can learn. Its a SKILL that can be learned I still satnd by it...If its a stupid requirement get rid of it...But if they are getting rid of it just to give people a break so they don't have to learn a skill thats stupid as hell. Quotebut they haven't because they haven't needed to Well if they want to be cops then they DO NEED it now don't they? Quotedidn't have access to a pool to learn ????? didn't have access to a pool???? I can list about a dozen pools I can use right now. Thats a really lame excuse. QuoteWhy make them learn to do a job that doesn't require the skill. Like I said read my WHOLE post next time...Hell it was even a short one."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckbrown 0 #8 May 6, 2004 QuoteWhy make them learn to do a job that doesn't require the skill. Miami is a port. What if they respond to a call near water (likely) and get thrown in the harbor? If they can't swim, they die. Seems like a necessary skill to me. To encourage more minority applicants, maybe what they should do is drop the swim rule to get into training but require swimming proficiency to graduate. That would make some sense. Edited to add: I just saw North Miami's police web page. They have boats. But they don't need to learn to swim??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #9 May 6, 2004 I seem to recall the Navy having some sort of swim test. They said they didn't care if you could swim or not. If you wanted it, they would make damn sure you learned, If you didn't they booted you. Anyone have more than a fuzzy recollection of something they didn't go through? Really, how hard is it to learn to swim? A little determination and not expecting things be given to you....witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #10 May 6, 2004 QuoteQuoteWhat is learning to swim that hard? If you want it bad enough you can learn. Its a SKILL that can be learned Of couse they can learn, but they haven't because they haven't needed to and didn't have access to a pool to learn. Why make them learn to do a job that doesn't require the skill. Um, this is Florida, a peninsula surrounded by thousands of miles of beaches, dotted with thousands of fresh water lakes, and with more pools per capita than probably anywhere else in America. If they wanted to learn, they could do it. I guess going to the YMCA is just too much for some people... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #11 May 6, 2004 QuoteI seem to recall the Navy having some sort of swim test. They said they didn't care if you could swim or not. If you wanted it, they would make damn sure you learned, If you didn't they booted you. Anyone have more than a fuzzy recollection of something they didn't go through? I can't speak for the Navy, but the Marines had a strict qualificaton. We had to swim the length of a pool with a rifle, learn how to make an impromptu flotation vest out of a pair of pants, and so on. The best part was just floating on the surface for an hour, which for me was the most relaxing hour of the entire three-month boot camp. Those that couldn't swim had to jump in and try. They were rescued if necessary, which many were. They were signed up for remedial water training. I don't know what happens after that to bring their skills up to a survival level. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #12 May 6, 2004 QuoteTo encourage more minority applicants, maybe what they should do is drop the swim rule to get into training but require swimming proficiency to graduate Hey, reasoned thinking. Good idea. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #13 May 6, 2004 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To encourage more minority applicants, maybe what they should do is drop the swim rule to get into training but require swimming proficiency to graduate -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hey, reasoned thinking. Good idea Being logcal has no place in todays world...Its better to change the rules than expect people to work for what they want."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #14 May 6, 2004 Has anyone read the entire article John linked to? I think the swimming requirement is actually after you're in the academy, not something you have to do in the application process. Also, there are free swimming lessons offered throughout the year. So in a city with as much water and shoreline as Miami, why are they dropping the swimming requirement? For shits sake, some coastal departments require a Lifeguarding certification. Why can't they get it through their heads that fewer minorities want to apply, and that's why they have fewer officers? [Mr Rodgers voice] Can you say affirmative action? I knew you could. [/voice] QuoteOur swimming requirement may give the false perception that we are not serious in our efforts to hire Haitian police applicants They have been intimidated because they don't swim, very few of them swim a Haitian-American city councilman asked police to drop the requirement because he said blacks historically cannot swim That's why we can't swim as good as whites If no one else will say it, I will. RACISTS !! Everyone of those statements shows racism. There are lines being drawn that have nothing to do with race. Is a black man or a Haitian man incapapble of learning to swim? No. That means they can learn if they want to.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #15 May 6, 2004 Quote I can't speak for the Navy, but the Marines had a strict qualificaton. We had to swim the length of a pool with a rifle, learn how to make an impromptu flotation vest out of a pair of pants, and so on. The best part was just floating on the surface for an hour, which for me was the most relaxing hour of the entire three-month boot camp. Was that hour float with the rifle still? How heavy is that - 5, 10lbs? - I'm guessing with a full magazine. And did the pants vest hold air for very long? Cops are among other things, first response rescuers. They absolutely need to be able to get in the water, and 150yards in full dress is not a very high standard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #16 May 6, 2004 Ok I am lost. You can teach people how to shoot a gun. Self defense, Law, but not how to swim. I must have been very gifted that I learned how. I am special.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #17 May 6, 2004 QuoteI am special. I think these bureaucrats and officials are short-bus special.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #18 May 6, 2004 QuoteQuoteI am special. I think these bureaucrats and officials are short-bus special. You can say that again bro.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #19 May 6, 2004 QuoteParaphrased from the news: The requirement was for police recruits to swim 150 feet without stopping while wearing all clothing except shoes. Full Story Well, we're lowering the bar for just about everything else in the country, so that incompetents and inadequates can feel just as good as those who work hard to be able to learn and do things well... Why shouldn't we lower the requirements to become a police officer who will then "protect and serve"? I can't fucking wait until the first time someone drives into a canal (happens all the time with the illegal immigrants and old people here who can't fuckin' drive) and one of these inadequate haitian cops has to stand there and can't even attempt a rescue, and the family of the drowned sues the shit out of the police department. I suppose the fucking police brass are so blinded by their asinine political correctness that they can't see that one coming. Good. Fuck 'em. This is just getting stupider and fucking stupider. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #20 May 6, 2004 QuoteQuoteWhat is learning to swim that hard? If you want it bad enough you can learn. Its a SKILL that can be learned Of couse they can learn, but they haven't because they haven't needed to and didn't have access to a pool to learn. Why make them learn to do a job that doesn't require the skill. They sure as hell have had a need to learn to swim... I can't tell you how many times I've read about a car theft suspect (around here, very often black) who jumps out of the car and into a canal or the Intracoastal Waterway, and ends up drowned. I guess they end up thinking they'll escape from the cops by learning to swim on the fly, and then it fails to happen. So now the cops won't have that skill. Would something be wrong with not requiring them to know how to swim when they are hired, but requiring them to LEARN to swim within X weeks of hire?! I mean jesus christ, it's not like expecting them to do cube roots in their head, it's fucking SWIMMING. You could learn basic survival swimming in an HOUR!!! --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckbrown 0 #21 May 6, 2004 Quote I can't fucking wait until the first time someone drives into a canal (happens all the time with the illegal immigrants and old people here who can't fuckin' drive) and one of these inadequate haitian cops has to stand there and can't even attempt a rescue, and the family of the drowned sues the shit out of the police department. - Better yet: when a cop drowns in the line of duty and his family sues the city because they failed to properly train him knowing he would be exposed to water. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #22 May 6, 2004 Jeez.....if they keep lowering their standards maybe I could get a job with Miami PDMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #23 May 6, 2004 QuoteQuoteI can't speak for the Navy, but the Marines had a strict qualificaton. We had to swim the length of a pool with a rifle, learn how to make an impromptu flotation vest out of a pair of pants, and so on. The best part was just floating on the surface for an hour, which for me was the most relaxing hour of the entire three-month boot camp. Was that hour float with the rifle still? How heavy is that - 5, 10lbs? - I'm guessing with a full magazine. And did the pants vest hold air for very long? They had dummy rifles for the pool, so our real ones wouldn't get messed up. They were cast steel replicas or something. An M16 weighs about 8 lbs., roughly. For the pants trick, you tie an overhand knot at the end of each leg, then scoop it through the air and into the water, waist-first, to trap air inside. Then you use it for flotation for a while, until the air starts seeping out. You have to repeat the process every couple of minutes. QuoteCops are among other things, first response rescuers. They absolutely need to be able to get in the water, and 150yards in full dress is not a very high standard. It was actually only 150 *feet*. That's a very short distance for swimming - about one length of an Olympic-sized pool. I agree with you. Imagine some cop coming upon a scene where a child is drowning at the bottom of the pool, and doing nothing because he can't swim... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoadRash 0 #24 May 6, 2004 QuoteIt was actually only 150 *feet*. That's a very short distance for swimming - about one length of an Olympic-sized pool. About 1 and a half, but that truly is very short... QuoteI agree with you. Imagine some cop coming upon a scene where a child is drowning at the bottom of the pool, and doing nothing because he can't swim... When I first read this article, this is the scenario that I was imagining...A body of water, with a child displaying the signs of a drowning victim, and a "cop" standing there looking around asking if anyone can swim......Gimme a break...if you want the job, learn to swim..."Race" should have nothing to do with it... ~R+R...Uhoh...my anthropology streak is showing through...I put "race" in quotes...(don't ask)...~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Fly the friendly skies...^_^...})ii({...^_~... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #25 May 7, 2004 Thank you for taking the words outta my mouth John. I went thru boot camp at ONTC in Orlando in 78/79 and if my memory serves me correct the first day they shaved our heads and thru us in a pool at 5am for a test. After, we had to swim I think like two laps in a olympic pool w/ a time limit and then tread water for 15 mins. using any clothing as a flotation device. On the funny side. Someone told me Dennis the Mence (Jay North ) joined the USN and was coming in. I think he washed out I can't find it in a quick search. I was either in the brig or the galley. LOLI hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
