PhillyKev 0 #26 May 11, 2004 QuoteThis is one of the reasons I am not offended for the abuse we have delivered to the Iraqi prisoners. We roughed up and humiliated men who were involved in doing harm against me and my fellow americans? Good. Should have abused them more. I may be the only one who feels like this, but I'm being completely honest. And I would hope if you had the opportunity to become a torturer of prisoners that you would be held accountable for your crimes as well. Please explain what is different between you making that statement and an Iraqi saying: "We roughed up and humiliated men who were involved in doing harm against my fellow Iraqis? Good. Should have abused them more" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #27 May 11, 2004 I suppose we disagree on what "torturing prisoners" means. Seems your definition is quite different than mine. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #28 May 11, 2004 I know they said they chopped off his head because we wouldn't release prisoners, but do you think it has anything to do with Clinton's pulling out when the going got tough? -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,563 #29 May 11, 2004 QuoteHear the sound of the left demanding to find out who. Hear the outrage, nada. ***Well he was probably a conservative, so what difference does it make to them.Quote Justify that statement, go on, try and prove that anyone left of centre just loves to see republicans get decapitated. Out of all the fucking stupid statements I have ever seen on this site that probably pisses me off the mostDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #30 May 11, 2004 QuoteI suppose we disagree on what "torturing prisoners" means. Seems your definition is quite different than mine. Raping them with broomsticks. Stomping on their necks until they die. You know, that kind of torture. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #31 May 11, 2004 QuoteThis is one of the reasons I am not offended for the abuse we have delivered to the Iraqi prisoners. I think the two things are totally different, both somewhat offensive, but neither to the point that I'm "outraged" about them. Last year the Iraqis showed the faces of some American POWs on TV. There was an outcry that this violated the Geneva Conventions by virtue of humiliating them. We subsequently one-upped them. 6-8 weeks ago, some Iraqis got ahold of 4 American civilians and killed them. Our response was a sustained military attack on that city, killing an awful lot more than 4 civilians, including a fair number of children. Once again, we one-upped them. When they killed those 4 civilians, and this one, they made a public spectacle of them. When we got Saddam's sons, we handed over images of their bodies to every international news agency that would take them. War is hell and generally involves actions by both sides that seriously offend the sensibilities of those not involved. At the risk of sounding a bit coarse, I can't get too worked up about this incident. An independent American businessman went into an active war zone hoping to get rich on a fat contract. He had to have known the risks, especially considering his lack of security. It's unfortunate he ended up on the wrong side of the odds. I feel for his loved ones and I hope his death was reasonably quick. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 226 #32 May 11, 2004 QuoteQuoteHear the sound of the left demanding to find out who. Hear the outrage, nada. ***Well he was probably a conservative, so what difference does it make to them.Quote Justify that statement, go on, try and prove that anyone left of centre just loves to see republicans get decapitated. Out of all the fucking stupid statements I have ever seen on this site that probably pisses me off the most Lighten up Jakee I justified my thoughts further down. If you think I was Serious then you have a coupla more issues to deal with than just this beheading and your anger.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,563 #33 May 11, 2004 QuoteThis is one of the reasons I am not offended for the abuse we have delivered to the Iraqi prisoners. We roughed up and humiliated men who were involved in doing harm against me and my fellow americans? Good. Should have abused them more. I may be the only one who feels like this, but I'm being completely honest. The decapitation was presented as a response to theabu ghraib abuse. If the abuse had been worse maybe more than one American would have been featured on that video. Sure it would feel good to get the scum that did that and beat the life out of them but it would be very counterproductive. It would lead to more support for AQ and the Iraqi rebels and make the coalition job in Iraq longer, harder and we would sustain more casualties. Is that worth the temporary feel good factor?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #34 May 11, 2004 QuoteAn independent American businessman went into an active war zone hoping to get rich on a fat contract. He had to have known the risks, especially considering his lack of security. It's unfortunate he ended up on the wrong side of the odds. Well if you read some of the other articles about it, it's ouf fault the odds hit him. He hadn't been able to find work and was preparing to come back home. Then, he was detained by Iraqi security forces and then tured over to our military. We kept him in jail until we determined why he was over there. By the time they released him, it was after when he was planning to come home, and after the shit hit the fan over there. Right after he was released is when he was kidnapped. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,070 #35 May 11, 2004 >Hear the outrage, nada. I am sure you will feel no outrage whatsoever over this: ----------------------------- MSNBC, 3/2/2004 With Tuesday’s attacks, Abu Musab Zarqawi, a Jordanian militant with ties to al-Qaida, is now blamed for more than 700 terrorist killings in Iraq. But NBC News has learned that long before the war the Bush administration had several chances to wipe out his terrorist operation and perhaps kill Zarqawi himself — but never pulled the trigger. . . . . The United States did attack the camp at Kirma at the beginning of the war, but it was too late — Zarqawi and many of his followers were gone. “Here’s a case where they waited, they waited too long and now we’re suffering as a result inside Iraq,” Cressey added. And despite the Bush administration’s tough talk about hitting the terrorists before they strike, Zarqawi’s killing streak continues today. ---------------------- So we could have taken out Zarqawi three times. We let him go for political reasons. Now he and his band of terrorists are out doing things like beheading americans. I remember your righteous rage when the Clinton adminstration ignored opportunities to take out Bin Laden. Will you feel the same anger towards the Bush administration, for their failure to take out the man who pulled off this disgusting crime? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,563 #36 May 11, 2004 Well OK then (smooths hair, straightens clothes) I'm calm now. Pretty poor taste for joke though. Anyway I think I've found your justification QuoteSo where are the "Activists" now? Where is Al Sharpton and his grandure way of demeaning our military for it's flaws? Where is Kerry stating that this will not be tolerated? Where is Kennedy? Where are the people that would JUMP THE FUCK UP and defend these animals if it were foiund out that we did this same thing to them? WHERE ARE THEY? I'll tell you - Hiding behind thier political agenda. Sad isn't it, that the people that are the most vocal and the most likely to protest fall so silent when it is, even as attrocious as this, against thier morals. and to be honest I haven't got a clue what you're saying. Why would it be against their agenda to condemn this execution?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #37 May 11, 2004 QuoteHiding behind thier political agenda. Sad isn't it, that the people that are the most vocal and the most likely to protest fall so silent when it is, even as attrocious as this, against thier morals. This hit the news, what, two hours ago? sheesh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,534 #38 May 11, 2004 When you stir the pot sometimes you have to expect the soup to be hot. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Michele 1 #39 May 11, 2004 I've tried. I've tried and tried. I've really, really tried, and tried, and tried. I've researched, learned, listened, thought, contemplated, considered, discussed, looked, and then researched more. I've honestly tried my damnedest. But I will never understand the beheading of someone. I will never understand the mentality it takes to lift a dripping, bloody head to a camera and say "see? Look here." I cannot wrap my ever-imaginative mind around what sort of person could do that with such apparant ease. I cannot, for the life of me, understand why someone would rip apart a dead body; hang them from a bridge. I will never be capable of that sort of understanding. Does this make me less of a person, for not having compassion? Perhaps, but I just don't understand. And rest assured, it has far more to do with AQ re-assuring their followers and re-asserting their "power" than anything which happened at the prison. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #40 May 11, 2004 QuoteQuoteAn independent American businessman went into an active war zone hoping to get rich on a fat contract. He had to have known the risks, especially considering his lack of security. It's unfortunate he ended up on the wrong side of the odds. Well if you read some of the other articles about it, it's ouf fault the odds hit him. He hadn't been able to find work and was preparing to come back home. Then, he was detained by Iraqi security forces and then tured over to our military. We kept him in jail until we determined why he was over there. By the time they released him, it was after when he was planning to come home, and after the shit hit the fan over there. Right after he was released is when he was kidnapped. Yeah, I read all that too, however didn't extrapolate out that it was "our" fault (not that I honestly believe you did either). In any case, his family might blame the US government (they're throwing around "without due process" comments), but that doesn't make it any more our fault than a DZ is responsible for a skydiver losing the double-mal lottery. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,563 #41 May 11, 2004 QuoteBut I will never understand the beheading of someone. I will never understand the mentality it takes to lift a dripping, bloody head to a camera and say "see? Look here." I cannot wrap my ever-imaginative mind around what sort of person could do that with such apparant ease. Ask any inmate on death row. Psycho's, sick freaks and just plain nasty people exist everywhere. In most places they get caught, this one found an organisation that lets him indulge himself. QuoteAnd rest assured, it has far more to do with AQ re-assuring their followers and re-asserting their "power" than anything which happened at the prison. Granted, this may have happened anyway. But look at the context and appearance of it. Some 18 year old Iraqi male sees this, without the reported abuse in abu ghraib he may have thought, 'Damn what sick bastard would do that, he's not my countryman' However right now he might be thinking 'Good, now someones showing those murdering yankee's that they won't have it all their own way'. If they are given an excuse to be violent then it has to be assumed that AQ will take that excuse, play it for all it's worth and maybe gain some support along the way.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #42 May 11, 2004 QuoteI cannot, for the life of me, understand why someone would rip apart a dead body; hang them from a bridge. I will never be capable of that sort of understanding. We as humans are pretty emotional beings and most of us attach some special significance to human carcasses. It seems kind of silly and I don't know why it's the case, but it is. Given that, one can logically conclude that publicly destroying a corpse will get them more attention than leaving a corpse be. All they have to do is temporarily subdue their emotions and do what they've determined "needs to be done." I imagine coroners have to occasionally apply a similar emotional filter in the course of their work. Then again truly hating the person or their cause might make it a bit easier. We have to accept that our actions over there are fostering deep hatred in some percentage of the Iraqi people, and likely a fair number of folks in other Arab nations as well. These are public exhibitions of that hatred. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,106 #43 May 11, 2004 QuoteOne for John - So are these guys individually responsible for the beheading? Or would you say this goes "all the way to the top" and thus justifying the leadership of the society that bred the individuals. Of course this act is much worse than humiliation (which is also wrong in a much different way). How am I supposed to know whether they did this independently or under orders from AQ? Quote One might argue that Saddam's society bred this behavior and that this is another justifaction for the invasion. Saddam and AQ were not on speaking terms. I understand these were AQ. WE (US, UK, Spain...) set the scene for AQ to operate in Iraq. Your point is moot. Quote Now here comes the sophmoric debate about how the society to blame is not their society, but our own (either US or capitalist society depending on how far left the reply is coming from). I would say find the individuals and not escalate this into a intellectual/political exercise for the extremists, but that hay is already made. An eye for an eye soon leads to a nation of blind people. We MUST find a way to de-escalate this. The sooner the US is out of Iraq and the UN is in, the better for everyone, especially us. This is getting to be a morass. Humble pie doesn't taste good, but sometimes it has to be eaten.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cloudseeker2001 0 #44 May 12, 2004 I know all you "kick some ass" military people out there do not think so, but.......the US is about to loose total control of Iraq, it is only a matter of time. We need to hand control over to the UN and get most of our people out and let them sweat it out. It is not turn and run mentality, it is a business decision and smart chess move. "Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance, others mean and rueful of the western dream" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bodypilot90 0 #45 May 12, 2004 QuoteThe sooner the US is out of Iraq and the UN is in, the better for everyone, the un hauled ass out of there first sign of trouble. are they going to do that again Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tunaplanet 0 #46 May 12, 2004 You know who I feel the most sorrow for? His family. That has got to be the worst thing imaginable a parent/family member can see...their own son being beheaded and them holding his head in front of the camera. I don't get moved easily regarding my emotions, but I would have a hard time dealing with that. There's not an existing God that could stop me from buying the first ticket over there and exacting revenge if it was my son/daughter. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #47 May 12, 2004 That was wrong... We should drop the largest hydrogen bomb known to man on that fucking place.. Pull the troops.. and BOOM!!! Glass parking lot!! Those coward, bastard mother fuckers!!!! Let the fucking Marines Loose!!! Fuck those assholes!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #48 May 12, 2004 Read this article in the Chicago Sun Times and tell me how wonderful the UN is. Besides, I've been hearing about how "we are about to lose control over there" since April ... of last year! The UN doesn't exactly have a stellar record for keeping the peace in hotbed areas. I would apply the phrase "cut and run" here, but not as a shot against the US but as a warning for Iraqis if they trust the UN.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tunaplanet 0 #49 May 12, 2004 Whoah, hold on there, Cujo. As I agree with your mentality, that's far too much firepower. Better idea. Rev up the MC-130s and in your best quarterback voice shout, "BLU 82! BLU 82! SET! HIKE!!!!!" Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #50 May 12, 2004 Kill them all.... Kill the mother fuckers... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 2 of 13 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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PhillyKev 0 #30 May 11, 2004 QuoteI suppose we disagree on what "torturing prisoners" means. Seems your definition is quite different than mine. Raping them with broomsticks. Stomping on their necks until they die. You know, that kind of torture. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #31 May 11, 2004 QuoteThis is one of the reasons I am not offended for the abuse we have delivered to the Iraqi prisoners. I think the two things are totally different, both somewhat offensive, but neither to the point that I'm "outraged" about them. Last year the Iraqis showed the faces of some American POWs on TV. There was an outcry that this violated the Geneva Conventions by virtue of humiliating them. We subsequently one-upped them. 6-8 weeks ago, some Iraqis got ahold of 4 American civilians and killed them. Our response was a sustained military attack on that city, killing an awful lot more than 4 civilians, including a fair number of children. Once again, we one-upped them. When they killed those 4 civilians, and this one, they made a public spectacle of them. When we got Saddam's sons, we handed over images of their bodies to every international news agency that would take them. War is hell and generally involves actions by both sides that seriously offend the sensibilities of those not involved. At the risk of sounding a bit coarse, I can't get too worked up about this incident. An independent American businessman went into an active war zone hoping to get rich on a fat contract. He had to have known the risks, especially considering his lack of security. It's unfortunate he ended up on the wrong side of the odds. I feel for his loved ones and I hope his death was reasonably quick. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #32 May 11, 2004 QuoteQuoteHear the sound of the left demanding to find out who. Hear the outrage, nada. ***Well he was probably a conservative, so what difference does it make to them.Quote Justify that statement, go on, try and prove that anyone left of centre just loves to see republicans get decapitated. Out of all the fucking stupid statements I have ever seen on this site that probably pisses me off the most Lighten up Jakee I justified my thoughts further down. If you think I was Serious then you have a coupla more issues to deal with than just this beheading and your anger.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,563 #33 May 11, 2004 QuoteThis is one of the reasons I am not offended for the abuse we have delivered to the Iraqi prisoners. We roughed up and humiliated men who were involved in doing harm against me and my fellow americans? Good. Should have abused them more. I may be the only one who feels like this, but I'm being completely honest. The decapitation was presented as a response to theabu ghraib abuse. If the abuse had been worse maybe more than one American would have been featured on that video. Sure it would feel good to get the scum that did that and beat the life out of them but it would be very counterproductive. It would lead to more support for AQ and the Iraqi rebels and make the coalition job in Iraq longer, harder and we would sustain more casualties. Is that worth the temporary feel good factor?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #34 May 11, 2004 QuoteAn independent American businessman went into an active war zone hoping to get rich on a fat contract. He had to have known the risks, especially considering his lack of security. It's unfortunate he ended up on the wrong side of the odds. Well if you read some of the other articles about it, it's ouf fault the odds hit him. He hadn't been able to find work and was preparing to come back home. Then, he was detained by Iraqi security forces and then tured over to our military. We kept him in jail until we determined why he was over there. By the time they released him, it was after when he was planning to come home, and after the shit hit the fan over there. Right after he was released is when he was kidnapped. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,070 #35 May 11, 2004 >Hear the outrage, nada. I am sure you will feel no outrage whatsoever over this: ----------------------------- MSNBC, 3/2/2004 With Tuesday’s attacks, Abu Musab Zarqawi, a Jordanian militant with ties to al-Qaida, is now blamed for more than 700 terrorist killings in Iraq. But NBC News has learned that long before the war the Bush administration had several chances to wipe out his terrorist operation and perhaps kill Zarqawi himself — but never pulled the trigger. . . . . The United States did attack the camp at Kirma at the beginning of the war, but it was too late — Zarqawi and many of his followers were gone. “Here’s a case where they waited, they waited too long and now we’re suffering as a result inside Iraq,” Cressey added. And despite the Bush administration’s tough talk about hitting the terrorists before they strike, Zarqawi’s killing streak continues today. ---------------------- So we could have taken out Zarqawi three times. We let him go for political reasons. Now he and his band of terrorists are out doing things like beheading americans. I remember your righteous rage when the Clinton adminstration ignored opportunities to take out Bin Laden. Will you feel the same anger towards the Bush administration, for their failure to take out the man who pulled off this disgusting crime? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,563 #36 May 11, 2004 Well OK then (smooths hair, straightens clothes) I'm calm now. Pretty poor taste for joke though. Anyway I think I've found your justification QuoteSo where are the "Activists" now? Where is Al Sharpton and his grandure way of demeaning our military for it's flaws? Where is Kerry stating that this will not be tolerated? Where is Kennedy? Where are the people that would JUMP THE FUCK UP and defend these animals if it were foiund out that we did this same thing to them? WHERE ARE THEY? I'll tell you - Hiding behind thier political agenda. Sad isn't it, that the people that are the most vocal and the most likely to protest fall so silent when it is, even as attrocious as this, against thier morals. and to be honest I haven't got a clue what you're saying. Why would it be against their agenda to condemn this execution?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #37 May 11, 2004 QuoteHiding behind thier political agenda. Sad isn't it, that the people that are the most vocal and the most likely to protest fall so silent when it is, even as attrocious as this, against thier morals. This hit the news, what, two hours ago? sheesh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,534 #38 May 11, 2004 When you stir the pot sometimes you have to expect the soup to be hot. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Michele 1 #39 May 11, 2004 I've tried. I've tried and tried. I've really, really tried, and tried, and tried. I've researched, learned, listened, thought, contemplated, considered, discussed, looked, and then researched more. I've honestly tried my damnedest. But I will never understand the beheading of someone. I will never understand the mentality it takes to lift a dripping, bloody head to a camera and say "see? Look here." I cannot wrap my ever-imaginative mind around what sort of person could do that with such apparant ease. I cannot, for the life of me, understand why someone would rip apart a dead body; hang them from a bridge. I will never be capable of that sort of understanding. Does this make me less of a person, for not having compassion? Perhaps, but I just don't understand. And rest assured, it has far more to do with AQ re-assuring their followers and re-asserting their "power" than anything which happened at the prison. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #40 May 11, 2004 QuoteQuoteAn independent American businessman went into an active war zone hoping to get rich on a fat contract. He had to have known the risks, especially considering his lack of security. It's unfortunate he ended up on the wrong side of the odds. Well if you read some of the other articles about it, it's ouf fault the odds hit him. He hadn't been able to find work and was preparing to come back home. Then, he was detained by Iraqi security forces and then tured over to our military. We kept him in jail until we determined why he was over there. By the time they released him, it was after when he was planning to come home, and after the shit hit the fan over there. Right after he was released is when he was kidnapped. Yeah, I read all that too, however didn't extrapolate out that it was "our" fault (not that I honestly believe you did either). In any case, his family might blame the US government (they're throwing around "without due process" comments), but that doesn't make it any more our fault than a DZ is responsible for a skydiver losing the double-mal lottery. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,563 #41 May 11, 2004 QuoteBut I will never understand the beheading of someone. I will never understand the mentality it takes to lift a dripping, bloody head to a camera and say "see? Look here." I cannot wrap my ever-imaginative mind around what sort of person could do that with such apparant ease. Ask any inmate on death row. Psycho's, sick freaks and just plain nasty people exist everywhere. In most places they get caught, this one found an organisation that lets him indulge himself. QuoteAnd rest assured, it has far more to do with AQ re-assuring their followers and re-asserting their "power" than anything which happened at the prison. Granted, this may have happened anyway. But look at the context and appearance of it. Some 18 year old Iraqi male sees this, without the reported abuse in abu ghraib he may have thought, 'Damn what sick bastard would do that, he's not my countryman' However right now he might be thinking 'Good, now someones showing those murdering yankee's that they won't have it all their own way'. If they are given an excuse to be violent then it has to be assumed that AQ will take that excuse, play it for all it's worth and maybe gain some support along the way.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #42 May 11, 2004 QuoteI cannot, for the life of me, understand why someone would rip apart a dead body; hang them from a bridge. I will never be capable of that sort of understanding. We as humans are pretty emotional beings and most of us attach some special significance to human carcasses. It seems kind of silly and I don't know why it's the case, but it is. Given that, one can logically conclude that publicly destroying a corpse will get them more attention than leaving a corpse be. All they have to do is temporarily subdue their emotions and do what they've determined "needs to be done." I imagine coroners have to occasionally apply a similar emotional filter in the course of their work. Then again truly hating the person or their cause might make it a bit easier. We have to accept that our actions over there are fostering deep hatred in some percentage of the Iraqi people, and likely a fair number of folks in other Arab nations as well. These are public exhibitions of that hatred. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,106 #43 May 11, 2004 QuoteOne for John - So are these guys individually responsible for the beheading? Or would you say this goes "all the way to the top" and thus justifying the leadership of the society that bred the individuals. Of course this act is much worse than humiliation (which is also wrong in a much different way). How am I supposed to know whether they did this independently or under orders from AQ? Quote One might argue that Saddam's society bred this behavior and that this is another justifaction for the invasion. Saddam and AQ were not on speaking terms. I understand these were AQ. WE (US, UK, Spain...) set the scene for AQ to operate in Iraq. Your point is moot. Quote Now here comes the sophmoric debate about how the society to blame is not their society, but our own (either US or capitalist society depending on how far left the reply is coming from). I would say find the individuals and not escalate this into a intellectual/political exercise for the extremists, but that hay is already made. An eye for an eye soon leads to a nation of blind people. We MUST find a way to de-escalate this. The sooner the US is out of Iraq and the UN is in, the better for everyone, especially us. This is getting to be a morass. Humble pie doesn't taste good, but sometimes it has to be eaten.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cloudseeker2001 0 #44 May 12, 2004 I know all you "kick some ass" military people out there do not think so, but.......the US is about to loose total control of Iraq, it is only a matter of time. We need to hand control over to the UN and get most of our people out and let them sweat it out. It is not turn and run mentality, it is a business decision and smart chess move. "Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance, others mean and rueful of the western dream" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bodypilot90 0 #45 May 12, 2004 QuoteThe sooner the US is out of Iraq and the UN is in, the better for everyone, the un hauled ass out of there first sign of trouble. are they going to do that again Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tunaplanet 0 #46 May 12, 2004 You know who I feel the most sorrow for? His family. That has got to be the worst thing imaginable a parent/family member can see...their own son being beheaded and them holding his head in front of the camera. I don't get moved easily regarding my emotions, but I would have a hard time dealing with that. There's not an existing God that could stop me from buying the first ticket over there and exacting revenge if it was my son/daughter. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #47 May 12, 2004 That was wrong... We should drop the largest hydrogen bomb known to man on that fucking place.. Pull the troops.. and BOOM!!! Glass parking lot!! Those coward, bastard mother fuckers!!!! Let the fucking Marines Loose!!! Fuck those assholes!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #48 May 12, 2004 Read this article in the Chicago Sun Times and tell me how wonderful the UN is. Besides, I've been hearing about how "we are about to lose control over there" since April ... of last year! The UN doesn't exactly have a stellar record for keeping the peace in hotbed areas. I would apply the phrase "cut and run" here, but not as a shot against the US but as a warning for Iraqis if they trust the UN.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tunaplanet 0 #49 May 12, 2004 Whoah, hold on there, Cujo. As I agree with your mentality, that's far too much firepower. Better idea. Rev up the MC-130s and in your best quarterback voice shout, "BLU 82! BLU 82! SET! HIKE!!!!!" Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #50 May 12, 2004 Kill them all.... Kill the mother fuckers... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 2 of 13 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
jakee 1,563 #33 May 11, 2004 QuoteThis is one of the reasons I am not offended for the abuse we have delivered to the Iraqi prisoners. We roughed up and humiliated men who were involved in doing harm against me and my fellow americans? Good. Should have abused them more. I may be the only one who feels like this, but I'm being completely honest. The decapitation was presented as a response to theabu ghraib abuse. If the abuse had been worse maybe more than one American would have been featured on that video. Sure it would feel good to get the scum that did that and beat the life out of them but it would be very counterproductive. It would lead to more support for AQ and the Iraqi rebels and make the coalition job in Iraq longer, harder and we would sustain more casualties. Is that worth the temporary feel good factor?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #34 May 11, 2004 QuoteAn independent American businessman went into an active war zone hoping to get rich on a fat contract. He had to have known the risks, especially considering his lack of security. It's unfortunate he ended up on the wrong side of the odds. Well if you read some of the other articles about it, it's ouf fault the odds hit him. He hadn't been able to find work and was preparing to come back home. Then, he was detained by Iraqi security forces and then tured over to our military. We kept him in jail until we determined why he was over there. By the time they released him, it was after when he was planning to come home, and after the shit hit the fan over there. Right after he was released is when he was kidnapped. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #35 May 11, 2004 >Hear the outrage, nada. I am sure you will feel no outrage whatsoever over this: ----------------------------- MSNBC, 3/2/2004 With Tuesday’s attacks, Abu Musab Zarqawi, a Jordanian militant with ties to al-Qaida, is now blamed for more than 700 terrorist killings in Iraq. But NBC News has learned that long before the war the Bush administration had several chances to wipe out his terrorist operation and perhaps kill Zarqawi himself — but never pulled the trigger. . . . . The United States did attack the camp at Kirma at the beginning of the war, but it was too late — Zarqawi and many of his followers were gone. “Here’s a case where they waited, they waited too long and now we’re suffering as a result inside Iraq,” Cressey added. And despite the Bush administration’s tough talk about hitting the terrorists before they strike, Zarqawi’s killing streak continues today. ---------------------- So we could have taken out Zarqawi three times. We let him go for political reasons. Now he and his band of terrorists are out doing things like beheading americans. I remember your righteous rage when the Clinton adminstration ignored opportunities to take out Bin Laden. Will you feel the same anger towards the Bush administration, for their failure to take out the man who pulled off this disgusting crime? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,563 #36 May 11, 2004 Well OK then (smooths hair, straightens clothes) I'm calm now. Pretty poor taste for joke though. Anyway I think I've found your justification QuoteSo where are the "Activists" now? Where is Al Sharpton and his grandure way of demeaning our military for it's flaws? Where is Kerry stating that this will not be tolerated? Where is Kennedy? Where are the people that would JUMP THE FUCK UP and defend these animals if it were foiund out that we did this same thing to them? WHERE ARE THEY? I'll tell you - Hiding behind thier political agenda. Sad isn't it, that the people that are the most vocal and the most likely to protest fall so silent when it is, even as attrocious as this, against thier morals. and to be honest I haven't got a clue what you're saying. Why would it be against their agenda to condemn this execution?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #37 May 11, 2004 QuoteHiding behind thier political agenda. Sad isn't it, that the people that are the most vocal and the most likely to protest fall so silent when it is, even as attrocious as this, against thier morals. This hit the news, what, two hours ago? sheesh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,534 #38 May 11, 2004 When you stir the pot sometimes you have to expect the soup to be hot. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #39 May 11, 2004 I've tried. I've tried and tried. I've really, really tried, and tried, and tried. I've researched, learned, listened, thought, contemplated, considered, discussed, looked, and then researched more. I've honestly tried my damnedest. But I will never understand the beheading of someone. I will never understand the mentality it takes to lift a dripping, bloody head to a camera and say "see? Look here." I cannot wrap my ever-imaginative mind around what sort of person could do that with such apparant ease. I cannot, for the life of me, understand why someone would rip apart a dead body; hang them from a bridge. I will never be capable of that sort of understanding. Does this make me less of a person, for not having compassion? Perhaps, but I just don't understand. And rest assured, it has far more to do with AQ re-assuring their followers and re-asserting their "power" than anything which happened at the prison. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #40 May 11, 2004 QuoteQuoteAn independent American businessman went into an active war zone hoping to get rich on a fat contract. He had to have known the risks, especially considering his lack of security. It's unfortunate he ended up on the wrong side of the odds. Well if you read some of the other articles about it, it's ouf fault the odds hit him. He hadn't been able to find work and was preparing to come back home. Then, he was detained by Iraqi security forces and then tured over to our military. We kept him in jail until we determined why he was over there. By the time they released him, it was after when he was planning to come home, and after the shit hit the fan over there. Right after he was released is when he was kidnapped. Yeah, I read all that too, however didn't extrapolate out that it was "our" fault (not that I honestly believe you did either). In any case, his family might blame the US government (they're throwing around "without due process" comments), but that doesn't make it any more our fault than a DZ is responsible for a skydiver losing the double-mal lottery. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,563 #41 May 11, 2004 QuoteBut I will never understand the beheading of someone. I will never understand the mentality it takes to lift a dripping, bloody head to a camera and say "see? Look here." I cannot wrap my ever-imaginative mind around what sort of person could do that with such apparant ease. Ask any inmate on death row. Psycho's, sick freaks and just plain nasty people exist everywhere. In most places they get caught, this one found an organisation that lets him indulge himself. QuoteAnd rest assured, it has far more to do with AQ re-assuring their followers and re-asserting their "power" than anything which happened at the prison. Granted, this may have happened anyway. But look at the context and appearance of it. Some 18 year old Iraqi male sees this, without the reported abuse in abu ghraib he may have thought, 'Damn what sick bastard would do that, he's not my countryman' However right now he might be thinking 'Good, now someones showing those murdering yankee's that they won't have it all their own way'. If they are given an excuse to be violent then it has to be assumed that AQ will take that excuse, play it for all it's worth and maybe gain some support along the way.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #42 May 11, 2004 QuoteI cannot, for the life of me, understand why someone would rip apart a dead body; hang them from a bridge. I will never be capable of that sort of understanding. We as humans are pretty emotional beings and most of us attach some special significance to human carcasses. It seems kind of silly and I don't know why it's the case, but it is. Given that, one can logically conclude that publicly destroying a corpse will get them more attention than leaving a corpse be. All they have to do is temporarily subdue their emotions and do what they've determined "needs to be done." I imagine coroners have to occasionally apply a similar emotional filter in the course of their work. Then again truly hating the person or their cause might make it a bit easier. We have to accept that our actions over there are fostering deep hatred in some percentage of the Iraqi people, and likely a fair number of folks in other Arab nations as well. These are public exhibitions of that hatred. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #43 May 11, 2004 QuoteOne for John - So are these guys individually responsible for the beheading? Or would you say this goes "all the way to the top" and thus justifying the leadership of the society that bred the individuals. Of course this act is much worse than humiliation (which is also wrong in a much different way). How am I supposed to know whether they did this independently or under orders from AQ? Quote One might argue that Saddam's society bred this behavior and that this is another justifaction for the invasion. Saddam and AQ were not on speaking terms. I understand these were AQ. WE (US, UK, Spain...) set the scene for AQ to operate in Iraq. Your point is moot. Quote Now here comes the sophmoric debate about how the society to blame is not their society, but our own (either US or capitalist society depending on how far left the reply is coming from). I would say find the individuals and not escalate this into a intellectual/political exercise for the extremists, but that hay is already made. An eye for an eye soon leads to a nation of blind people. We MUST find a way to de-escalate this. The sooner the US is out of Iraq and the UN is in, the better for everyone, especially us. This is getting to be a morass. Humble pie doesn't taste good, but sometimes it has to be eaten.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cloudseeker2001 0 #44 May 12, 2004 I know all you "kick some ass" military people out there do not think so, but.......the US is about to loose total control of Iraq, it is only a matter of time. We need to hand control over to the UN and get most of our people out and let them sweat it out. It is not turn and run mentality, it is a business decision and smart chess move. "Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance, others mean and rueful of the western dream" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #45 May 12, 2004 QuoteThe sooner the US is out of Iraq and the UN is in, the better for everyone, the un hauled ass out of there first sign of trouble. are they going to do that again Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #46 May 12, 2004 You know who I feel the most sorrow for? His family. That has got to be the worst thing imaginable a parent/family member can see...their own son being beheaded and them holding his head in front of the camera. I don't get moved easily regarding my emotions, but I would have a hard time dealing with that. There's not an existing God that could stop me from buying the first ticket over there and exacting revenge if it was my son/daughter. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #47 May 12, 2004 That was wrong... We should drop the largest hydrogen bomb known to man on that fucking place.. Pull the troops.. and BOOM!!! Glass parking lot!! Those coward, bastard mother fuckers!!!! Let the fucking Marines Loose!!! Fuck those assholes!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #48 May 12, 2004 Read this article in the Chicago Sun Times and tell me how wonderful the UN is. Besides, I've been hearing about how "we are about to lose control over there" since April ... of last year! The UN doesn't exactly have a stellar record for keeping the peace in hotbed areas. I would apply the phrase "cut and run" here, but not as a shot against the US but as a warning for Iraqis if they trust the UN.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #49 May 12, 2004 Whoah, hold on there, Cujo. As I agree with your mentality, that's far too much firepower. Better idea. Rev up the MC-130s and in your best quarterback voice shout, "BLU 82! BLU 82! SET! HIKE!!!!!" Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #50 May 12, 2004 Kill them all.... Kill the mother fuckers... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
