kallend 2,027 #276 May 19, 2004 QuoteQuoteSadam giving them that money didn't change the fact that they were doing it before he started giving up the cash. Now he's not giving up the cash and if anything there are more suicide bombings. Conclusion? Sadam made no difference to the terror problem. OMG that is backwards thinking. It was clear he was SUPPORTING TERROISTS. And we are in a WAR ON TERROR...See the connection? What do you suggest we do about the Bostonians (lots of them) who sent money (lots of it) to the IRA?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #277 May 19, 2004 >The reality is that your not completely wrong here. Its true that the > reasons for going into Iraq continue to be restated and may also > continue to be. But this is only to please outspoken opposers like > yourself. So if we only had true believers, we wouldn't need any awkward justifications for war? We could just continue the crusade without dissent! >Most clear thinking people can see that the overwelming amount of > terrorism which has changed our way of life has been caused by > ISLAMIC radicals. Islamic radicals caused 9/11. A christian terrorist pulled off the Oklahoma City bombing. A radical sect of christianity fought law enforcement in Waco, Texas, resulting in about 80 dead. Shintos attacked Pearl Harbor in 1941. Those psychos actually had a word for suicide warriors - kamikazes. Right now most of the people we are fighting are muslim because we have invaded several islamic countries. If we had invaded Sri Lanka we'd be fighting the (atheist) Tamil Tigers. >And its no coincidence that since this religion was first invented in the' > 6th century, thre has been enough crazy radical ISLAMIC > fundamentalists to cause trouble around the world. 6th century? Since the 6th century, Christian fundamentalists have killed over NINE MILLION in a series of crusades. That's NINE MILLION. A nine with six zeroes after it. Has any other religion, ever, managed to kill so many people in an organized campaign? >That would still mean that there were 2 million psychos out there >endangering the security of the world. The fact is that there is not >anywhere near 2 million suicidal people of any other religion ready to > happily kill themselves as long as they kill there enemy. If Iraq had invaded us, there would be at LEAST 2 million christian psychos willing to give their lives to defend the US. When these psychos fight on our side we call them heroes. >So to end here, the reason we are in Iraq is for terrorism control. So we went from disarming Saddam to freeing the Iraqis to terrorism control. What will the reason du jour be when our occupation of Iraq does not end terrorism? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #278 May 19, 2004 QuoteThat's an interesting analogy. Can you please relate the swarming and buzzing to what Iraq was doing to us before the invasion? Shooting at our aircraft in the no-fly zone is in itself an act of war. In my analogy, the bees had done nothing so far, but based on my observation of them in the neighborhood, I concluded that left alone, they would become a threat. Rather than wait till they did, I decided to act pre-emptively. BTW, I tried to get my neighbors to help me and they refused. I found out later it was because they had been dipping into the beehive for honey. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #279 May 19, 2004 QuoteQuoteSadam giving them that money didn't change the fact that they were doing it before he started giving up the cash. Now he's not giving up the cash and if anything there are more suicide bombings. Conclusion? Sadam made no difference to the terror problem. OMG that is backwards thinking. It was clear he was SUPPORTING TERROISTS. And we are in a WAR ON TERROR...See the connection? America has supported terrorism including state terror (Iraq for one) in many countries heres just a few........... Guatemala Estimated civilian deaths: over 200,000 people. Chile The US backed violent overthrow of the democratically-elected Popular Unity government of Salvador Allende changed the course of the country Panama Estimated civilian deaths: over 13,000 people. Israel(State sponsored terror) Estimated civilian deaths: 100,000 Palestinian people Nicaragua Estimated civilian deaths: over 13,000 people. Colombia Estimated civilian deaths: over 67,000 people. Congo/Zaire Estimated civilian deaths: 2 million. East Timor Estimated civilian deaths: over 200,000 people Greece 1964-1974 America supported a coup that overturned the popularly elected leader George Papandreou, and led to seven years of murder, torture, and fear. Estimated civilian deaths: over 10,000 people. Costa Rica Dominican Republic Haiti Libya Iran El Salvador Not to mention the 18 million pounds sterling a year that was donated to the PIRA by Americans via Noraid to buy Semtex to blow innocent women and children away. This so called 'war on terror' is a spin doctors wet dream. Maybe the best way to defeat terrorism would be for the US to stop funding it?When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #280 May 19, 2004 QuoteWhat do you suggest we do about the Bostonians (lots of them) who sent money (lots of it) to the IRA? Do our best to prevent it...I think it has been and already is illegal. The difference between that an SH is the GOVERNMENT does not support it...That is a big difference. BTW just bought a GP 1/3 Pitts with a G-62....And a trailer to carry it."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #281 May 19, 2004 QuoteIslamic radicals caused 9/11. And look where we are now. Quote A christian terrorist pulled off the Oklahoma City bombing. A nutbag....Along the lines of Manson. Quote A radical sect of christianity fought law enforcement in Waco, Texas, resulting in about 80 dead. Yeah, that was handled bad By the "good guys". Quote Shintos attacked Pearl Harbor in 1941. Those psychos actually had a word for suicide warriors - kamikazes. Yep, and we went to war with them over it....and Kamikazes came later in the war...None at Pearl Harbor. Quote6th century? Since the 6th century, Christian fundamentalists have killed over NINE MILLION in a series of crusades. That's NINE MILLION. A nine with six zeroes after it. Has any other religion, ever, managed to kill so many people in an organized campaign? Add in the Spanish Inquisition, Salem Witch Trials...And you see why I don't like ANY religion. QuoteIf Iraq had invaded us, there would be at LEAST 2 million christian psychos willing to give their lives to defend the US. They would not have to be Christain...And I would not call them "psychos". We would have people fighting out of love of the country (Something a good number of you don't have unless it's convienant and comfertable)...Just like they do. QuoteWhen these psychos fight on our side we call them heroes. Hero to some, insurgent to others...A rose by any other name..... QuoteSo we went from disarming Saddam to freeing the Iraqis to terrorism control. What will the reason du jour be when our occupation of Iraq does not end terrorism? All of them... Besides we will not end terroism...Its impossible. The best we can do is show them that its going to be a long haul... They were going to attack us no matter who was in office and no matter what we did."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #282 May 19, 2004 QuoteAmerica has supported terrorism including state terror (Iraq for one) in many countries heres just a few........... Ok, your point is what? If someone were attacking us because of it, I would understand them...(Kinda like I DO understand the Islam nutbags). That does not mean I would not pick a rifle and a wall to protect...It just means as I am killing them I would understand their attacks."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #283 May 19, 2004 >And look where we are now. In the middle of a war in a country we invaded. No Bin Laden. Terrorism on the rise. Countries pulling their troops out of the coalition. I agree with most of the rest of your post, so I won't make an even longer list of replies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #284 May 19, 2004 Quote>And look where we are now. In the middle of a war in a country we invaded. No Bin Laden. Terrorism on the rise. Countries pulling their troops out of the coalition. And I have said before I think this is the battle that is going to end the world.... I also think it was comming anyway...No matter who was in office, no matter what our policies were/are. Religious nutbags on both sides are going to want to war against the other...It has been that way since before written history, and it will continue till it ends the world. The Islamic nutbags are going to get a WMD (Some say they already have one). And they are going to blow a city off the planet. This is going to cause US to start killing them without prejudice. BTW I just got a call back to Active duty."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #285 May 19, 2004 >And I have said before I think this is the battle that is going to end the world.... We've said that before, during the cold war. But we learned! We learned that you can win that battle by not fighting it. Let's hope we remember that lesson before it's too late. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #286 May 19, 2004 Quote>And I have said before I think this is the battle that is going to end the world.... We've said that before, during the cold war. But we learned! We learned that you can win that battle by not fighting it. Let's hope we remember that lesson before it's too late. The cold war was just a step in the process..The massive amounts of Nuclear weapons that were produced and the fall of the USSR is how the Islamic nutbags are going to get the bomb. And if you want to take the cold war as a seperate issue...Well we won that one didn't we?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckbrown 0 #287 May 19, 2004 Quote>And I have said before I think this is the battle that is going to end the world.... We've said that before, during the cold war. But we learned! We learned that you can win that battle by not fighting it. Let's hope we remember that lesson before it's too late. We won the Cold War because we were fighting a rational enemy who understood the implications of Mutual Assured Destruction. We are now fighting an enemy that doesn't care about his/her own destruction so long as they acheive their objective of destroying us. Our enemy has no fear of the consequences of their actions, even if those consequences mean their own death. We cannot fight this battle "by not fighting it." The WTC is proof of that. You're right this battle may end the world, but we can either fight to preserve our world or do nothing as it's destroyed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #288 May 19, 2004 >And if you want to take the cold war as a seperate issue...Well we >won that one didn't we? We did! And we won it with a weapon that's seen us through a lot - our economy. If the cold war had been fought with soldiers, aircraft, and missiles, both sides would have lost. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #289 May 19, 2004 >We cannot fight this battle "by not fighting it." The WTC is proof of > that. You're right this battle may end the world, but we can either > fight to preserve our world or do nothing as it's destroyed. We could lose a WTC a year and do that forever; our economy is a lot stronger than that. On the other hand, a single nuclear war (even if we 'win') could well destroy us; we can't eat uranium, and if we bring a nuclear winter, we won't be able to grow food either. So if it comes down to one or the other, we'd be well advised to pull back and just defend our borders. Even if it means there's an annual terrorist bombing. I know, I know, we'd never stand for that, american pride and all. Sometimes, though, the victory goes to the side that knows which battles to fight and which ones to punt on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #290 May 19, 2004 QuoteQuote> BTW I just got a call back to Active duty. My son has just been recalled from 2nd Inf (Korea) to go to Iraq.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites falxori 0 #291 May 19, 2004 QuoteSadam giving them that money didn't change the fact that they were doing it before he started giving up the cash. Now he's not giving up the cash and if anything there are more suicide bombings. Conclusion? Sadam made no difference to the terror problem. wrong, there are less. not sure if its because SH is gone or because Israel hunts them down, but there are less. having countries like Iraq and these days Iran backing up terror both financially and logisticlly IS the main problem. currently Hamas is getting most of it's supplies from Iran through tunnels under the Israeli-egyptian border. but dont let the facts disturb you... O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites falxori 0 #292 May 19, 2004 QuoteIsrael(State sponsored terror) Estimated civilian deaths: 100,000 Palestinian people i dont know about the rest of your "examples" but its funny (and sad) you see israel as "State sponsored terror". not to mention your 100,000 death toll has no connection to reality. and when i say it , i mean NONE what so ever. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites christelsabine 1 #293 May 19, 2004 OMG Hell. I'm so sorry for that. For all who have been called. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuckbrown 0 #294 May 19, 2004 QuoteSometimes, though, the victory goes to the side that knows which battles to fight and which ones to punt on. Agree completely. We'll just agree to disagree on what should be fought and what should be punted. Personally, I'd rather have the battle fought away from our shores because we can't count on the big puddles anymore to protect us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StevePhelps 0 #295 May 19, 2004 QuoteThe connection?.....................Places that America has fucked up and interfered with when it suited? Like bailing the Brits out of WW2? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #296 May 19, 2004 Quote It was America that............... Supports the corrupt and despotic house of Saud Supported and supplied WMD to Sadam the madman Bombed Tripoli killing Kaddafi's (sic) infant son. Trained the Taliban during the Afghan/Soviet war (Along with OBL) That supports and has one of its own as the Queen of Jordan............. The connection?.....................Places that America has fucked up and interfered with when it suited? Implied in your recent posts here is that America is the source of all trouble, and that no other Western power (ahem, France!) did similar or identical actions. Or go back a few decades when Britain was still the empire underwhich the sun never set...or see how it dealt with the Ireland problem. Lovely civil protections there, eh? Not even the pretense of a Constitution for protection. The world power is always going to be flexing its muscle and exerting infuence. And yet still must pick and choose its battles. It's actually rather hard to support any country in the Middle East outside of Israeli that is not corrupt and despotic. I guess I'm failing to see your point. Maybe you can provide historical examples where a superpower acted in a manner other than self interest. Might want to consider also that thanks to democracy, the same people aren't in charge forever, so expecting consistency might be a bit silly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #297 May 19, 2004 QuoteTrained the Taliban during the Afghan/Soviet war (Along with OBL) That is technically incorrect. The Taliban were supported by Pakistan some time after the Soviet withdrawal. We did train the mujahideen and OBL by proxy through Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. QuoteThat supports and has one of its own as the Queen of Jordan. I believe the Queen of Jordan (married to King Abdallah II) is of Lebanese descent. The wife of now decesed King Hussein was American. Meanwhile, Jordan, under the leadership of King Abdallah II has instituted massive reforms, signed free trade with the US, Europe (EFTA) and join WTO. I saw a piece on Jordan on the Discovery Channel some time ago, King Abdallah is no despot. QuoteThe connection?.....................Places that America has fucked up and interfered with when it suited? Whatever...So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,027 #298 May 19, 2004 QuoteQuoteThe connection?.....................Places that America has fucked up and interfered with when it suited? Like bailing the Brits out of WW2? Really? I thought the Brits won the Battle of Britain, that Hitler had cancelled all further plans for invasion, and turned his attention east by the time the US got involved. Hitler declared war on the USA, 12/11/41. The US did not declare war on Germany.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,500 #299 May 19, 2004 QuoteReally? I thought the Brits won the Battle of Britain, that Hitler had cancelled all further plans for invasion, and turned his attention east by the time the US got involved. Thats right, if we want to thank the allies who did the real damage in the European theatre we should tip our hats to old Joe Stalin.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 26 #300 May 19, 2004 QuoteHitler declared war on the USA, 12/11/41. The US did not declare war on Germany. Yeah, but which side actually "declared" war is not always that relevant. For example, the Japanese "declared" war in the pacific, but the US and UK had pretty much already forced them into it by forcing them to sign a treaty that was massively unfavorable to them, then choking down on their natural resource supply lines.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Next Page 12 of 13 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
falxori 0 #291 May 19, 2004 QuoteSadam giving them that money didn't change the fact that they were doing it before he started giving up the cash. Now he's not giving up the cash and if anything there are more suicide bombings. Conclusion? Sadam made no difference to the terror problem. wrong, there are less. not sure if its because SH is gone or because Israel hunts them down, but there are less. having countries like Iraq and these days Iran backing up terror both financially and logisticlly IS the main problem. currently Hamas is getting most of it's supplies from Iran through tunnels under the Israeli-egyptian border. but dont let the facts disturb you... O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #292 May 19, 2004 QuoteIsrael(State sponsored terror) Estimated civilian deaths: 100,000 Palestinian people i dont know about the rest of your "examples" but its funny (and sad) you see israel as "State sponsored terror". not to mention your 100,000 death toll has no connection to reality. and when i say it , i mean NONE what so ever. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #293 May 19, 2004 OMG Hell. I'm so sorry for that. For all who have been called. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckbrown 0 #294 May 19, 2004 QuoteSometimes, though, the victory goes to the side that knows which battles to fight and which ones to punt on. Agree completely. We'll just agree to disagree on what should be fought and what should be punted. Personally, I'd rather have the battle fought away from our shores because we can't count on the big puddles anymore to protect us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StevePhelps 0 #295 May 19, 2004 QuoteThe connection?.....................Places that America has fucked up and interfered with when it suited? Like bailing the Brits out of WW2? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #296 May 19, 2004 Quote It was America that............... Supports the corrupt and despotic house of Saud Supported and supplied WMD to Sadam the madman Bombed Tripoli killing Kaddafi's (sic) infant son. Trained the Taliban during the Afghan/Soviet war (Along with OBL) That supports and has one of its own as the Queen of Jordan............. The connection?.....................Places that America has fucked up and interfered with when it suited? Implied in your recent posts here is that America is the source of all trouble, and that no other Western power (ahem, France!) did similar or identical actions. Or go back a few decades when Britain was still the empire underwhich the sun never set...or see how it dealt with the Ireland problem. Lovely civil protections there, eh? Not even the pretense of a Constitution for protection. The world power is always going to be flexing its muscle and exerting infuence. And yet still must pick and choose its battles. It's actually rather hard to support any country in the Middle East outside of Israeli that is not corrupt and despotic. I guess I'm failing to see your point. Maybe you can provide historical examples where a superpower acted in a manner other than self interest. Might want to consider also that thanks to democracy, the same people aren't in charge forever, so expecting consistency might be a bit silly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #297 May 19, 2004 QuoteTrained the Taliban during the Afghan/Soviet war (Along with OBL) That is technically incorrect. The Taliban were supported by Pakistan some time after the Soviet withdrawal. We did train the mujahideen and OBL by proxy through Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. QuoteThat supports and has one of its own as the Queen of Jordan. I believe the Queen of Jordan (married to King Abdallah II) is of Lebanese descent. The wife of now decesed King Hussein was American. Meanwhile, Jordan, under the leadership of King Abdallah II has instituted massive reforms, signed free trade with the US, Europe (EFTA) and join WTO. I saw a piece on Jordan on the Discovery Channel some time ago, King Abdallah is no despot. QuoteThe connection?.....................Places that America has fucked up and interfered with when it suited? Whatever...So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #298 May 19, 2004 QuoteQuoteThe connection?.....................Places that America has fucked up and interfered with when it suited? Like bailing the Brits out of WW2? Really? I thought the Brits won the Battle of Britain, that Hitler had cancelled all further plans for invasion, and turned his attention east by the time the US got involved. Hitler declared war on the USA, 12/11/41. The US did not declare war on Germany.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,500 #299 May 19, 2004 QuoteReally? I thought the Brits won the Battle of Britain, that Hitler had cancelled all further plans for invasion, and turned his attention east by the time the US got involved. Thats right, if we want to thank the allies who did the real damage in the European theatre we should tip our hats to old Joe Stalin.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #300 May 19, 2004 QuoteHitler declared war on the USA, 12/11/41. The US did not declare war on Germany. Yeah, but which side actually "declared" war is not always that relevant. For example, the Japanese "declared" war in the pacific, but the US and UK had pretty much already forced them into it by forcing them to sign a treaty that was massively unfavorable to them, then choking down on their natural resource supply lines.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
